Jul 16, 2024 · 1h 44m · bigdeal
Tulsi Gabbard: Who Actually Runs the U.S. Government (And What We Should do About it)
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Former Congresswoman Tulsi Gabbard joins host Codie Sanchez to expose the unelected power structures, weaponized institutions, and military-industrial interests shaping American governance. Emphasizing the principles of citizen sovereignty, Gabbard outlines actionable pathways for everyday Americans to overcome political tribalism, defend civil liberties, and reclaim constitutional authority.
How this conversation actually went
Every chapter scored 0–10 on four independent dynamics. Hover any point for the reasoning behind the score. Codie holds 28.9% of the talking time here. How this is scored →
Codie as informed peer 4.5 Guest teaching 3.7 Guest disagreement 1.3 Codie pushing back 0.5
speaking balance: gold is Codie, purple is the guest (3 minute bins)
Sharpest disagreement ▶ 50:53 Gabbard sharply condemns establishment rhetoric regarding Ukraine
Gabbard forcefully rejects the bipartisan narrative that the war in Ukraine defends democracy, cataloging the suspension of elections, shutdown of opposition media, and church raids under martial law.
Hardest push from Codie ▶ 1:00:06 Sanchez presses Gabbard on moving from Sanders to TrumpSanchez directly highlights the perceived ideological contradiction of endorsing progressive Bernie Sanders in 2016 and conservative Donald Trump in 2024, prompting Gabbard to defend her throughline.
Biggest teaching moment ▶ 1:26:59 Gabbard educates Sanchez on the structural pitfalls of term limitsGabbard dismantles the popular argument for congressional term limits by explaining how forced turnover transfers real legislative power to unelected lobbyists and permanent staffers, leading Sanchez to admit she had never considered that perspective.
Codie holds their own ▶ 26:53 Sanchez demonstrates firsthand expertise on Latin American nationalizationSanchez illustrates the mechanics of state overreach by citing her direct experience operating financial businesses in Argentina during industry nationalization and foreign currency bans under Cristina Fernandez.
the scores for every segment, with the reasoning behind each
| Chapter | Topic | Codie as informed peer | Guest teaching | Guest disagreement | Codie pushing back | Why |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| Confronting Political Smears and Online Toxicity | 3 | 2 | 1 | 0 | Sanchez opens by asking Gabbard how she emotionally and mentally processes severe online vitriol from high-profile figures like Mitt Romney and Hillary Clinton. Gabbard explains her mindset of ignoring bad-faith smears from political elites, while Sanchez enthusiastically agrees and cites social media retorts. The dynamic is collaborative and supportive. | |
| Breaking with the DNC and Partisan Ideology | 3 | 4 | 2 | 0 | Sanchez invites Gabbard to detail her decision to step down as DNC vice chair and eventually exit the Democratic Party entirely. Gabbard explains the inner party machinery, the rigged 2016 primary, and her core foreign policy disagreement regarding interventionism. Sanchez validates Gabbard's perspective throughout. | |
| Deconstructing the Permanent Washington Elite | 4 | 4 | 1 | 0 | Sanchez asks Gabbard to demystify who the permanent establishment elites actually are and how they wield influence. Gabbard identifies unelected bureaucrats, defense contractors, and corporate media conglomerates. Sanchez extends the point by highlighting political campaign finance disclosures and information saturation. | |
| Weaponized Justice and the Threat of a Banana Republic | 7 | 3 | 1 | 1 | Sanchez contrasts Boeing's corporate settlement with the massive civil judgments against Donald Trump, prompting a discussion on banana republic dynamics. Gabbard explains how selective prosecution undermines rule of law, while Sanchez demonstrates deep domain expertise by sharing her personal business experience navigating asset nationalization and currency controls in Argentina and Chile. | |
| Retaliation, Blacklists, and Institutional Exile | 2 | 5 | 1 | 0 | Sanchez asks whether political blacklists truly exist for non-compliant politicians. Gabbard recounts firsthand warnings from congressional colleagues after she resigned from the DNC on live television, describing the long-term retaliation enacted by the Clinton political machine. Sanchez listens in fascination. | |
| Big Tech Interference and Digital Suppression | 6 | 4 | 1 | 0 | Both host and guest exchange accounts of digital throttling and censorship. Gabbard recounts Google suspending her campaign AdSense account immediately following her breakout 2020 primary debate performance, while Sanchez supplies concrete business data regarding Meta shadowbans, small business SEO revenue drops, and her interactions with Google leadership. | |
| NATO Expansion, the Ukraine Conflict, and War Profiteering | 2 | 7 | 3 | 1 | Sanchez frames herself as a novice and asks whether NATO expansion provoked the Russia-Ukraine conflict. Gabbard delivers an extensive geopolitical breakdown detailing broken post-Cold War promises, Article 5 implications, defense contractor rearmament profits, and civil liberty restrictions under martial law in Ukraine. | |
| Reasserting People's Power in the 2024 Election | 4 | 3 | 2 | 1 | Sanchez queries how citizens can reassert agency and gently presses Gabbard on the ideological shift between endorsing Bernie Sanders in 2016 and Donald Trump in 2024. Gabbard responds by framing non-interventionist foreign policy and opposition to regime change wars as her consistent throughline. | |
| Ideological Extremism and the Threat of Radical Islam | 3 | 5 | 2 | 2 | Sanchez asks about the surge in online antisemitism and explicitly questions whether the United States should deploy troops to support Israel. Gabbard clarifies that Israel has not requested US manpower, reframing the issue around ideological counter-extremism while distinguishing practical national interest from pure isolationism. | |
| Global Electoral Maneuvers and Preserving Republic Checks | 5 | 3 | 1 | 0 | Sanchez brings up recent French election coalitions blocking Marine Le Pen to ask about institutional maneuvers against populist majorities. Gabbard argues that establishment elites subvert democracy under the guise of protecting it, while Sanchez reflects on psychological self-rationalization in the exercise of power. | |
| Transcending Tribal Labels and Leading Local Communities | 6 | 2 | 1 | 0 | Sanchez critiques tribal partisan labels and discusses her deliberate choice to build independent decentralized businesses rather than large Wall Street rollup funds. Gabbard affirms Sanchez's model of grassroots economic leadership, with both agreeing on the importance of local community resilience. | |
| Economic Mismanagement and 2024 Election Dynamics | 5 | 3 | 1 | 0 | Sanchez criticizes California infrastructure spending and regulatory tax burdens on working families, asking Gabbard for predictions on the 2024 presidential ballot. Gabbard responds to Sanchez's point on voter apathy, arguing that civic anger must translate into informed turnout. | |
| Rapid Fire: Term Limits, Campaign Finance, and Insider Trading | 6 | 6 | 1 | 1 | Sanchez initiates a rapid-fire round starting with term limits. Gabbard offers a counterintuitive masterclass on how term limits empower unelected lobbyists and entrenched committee staffers, shifting Sanchez's perspective. Sanchez adds authoritative comparisons from financial sector insider trading restrictions. | |
| Rapid Fire: Election Integrity and Renewing the American Dream | 4 | 4 | 1 | 1 | Sanchez asks about voter identification mandates, mail-in balloting security, and the viability of the American Dream. Gabbard shares personal anecdotes of receiving mail ballots for deceased former tenants while emphasizing the necessity of maximizing legal voter turnout in every available format. | |
| Post-Interview Analysis: Political Wealth, Donor Clout, and Collective Action | 7 | 0 | 0 | 0 | In a post-interview solo segment, Sanchez breaks down how politicians build post-presidency fortunes via book advances and speaking fees. She includes a clip of Vivek Ramaswamy explaining donor bundling commissions and concludes with an analysis of concentrated donor leverage versus collective citizen power. |
Statements from this episode (16)
Gabbard: DNC leadership rigged the 2016 primary for Hillary Clinton
“The party leadership was heavily waiting and tilting the scales and essentially rigging the primary for Hillary Clinton, much in the same manner that we have seen occur in this 2024 election for Joe Biden”
Gabbard: Resigned DNC post to endorse Sanders over foreign policy stance
“I made that decision to resign as vice chair of the DNC and endorse Bernie Sanders around that single issue of war and peace. He was largely at that time more of non-interventionist view of the world, not an isolationist, but more, ah, exercising restraint. Ve…”
Sanchez: Kirchner nationalized industry and outlawed my Argentina investment business overnight
“We got pushed out of Argentina entirely when Cristina Fernandez came in, took over, nationalized all industry, and actually made my business illegal, which was, all we did was, we have international investments, and so if you want to invest outside of Argentin…”
Gabbard: U.S. threatened Mexico with sanctions over GMO crop ban for Monsanto
“Mexico has banned some form of GMO crops. The United States government is intervening and threatening Mexico with economic sanctions. On behalf of Monsanto, ah, and the, you know.”
Gabbard: Democratic colleagues warned endorsing Sanders placed me on Clinton's blacklist
“Some of my Democratic colleagues basically telling me, like, you just committed political suicide. Hillary Clinton is going to be president. That is going to happen, and you will be persona non grata to that her administration. You will not get a single penny …”
Gabbard: Google shut down my campaign AdSense during 2020 debate peak
“I ended up being the most searched candidate of the night, that debate night, which is what I had hoped for, and, ah, right at that time of peak interest, Google shut down our AdSense account with no warning, no explanation, no ability.”
Gabbard: Studies show Gmail sends most Republican campaign emails to spam
“Studies are done how Google in particular, but essentially big tech, Has been proven to divert the vast majority of, you know, if you're a Republican running for office and you're sending out a, you know, a bulk email, most of those emails for conservatives Re…”
Gabbard: The U.S. goal in Ukraine is regime change to remove Putin
“The goal of the U.S. Government at the heart of this is another regime change war. They want to get rid of Putin, and that's not a secret. Some of the highest leaders, you know, Secretary Austin Secretary of State Blinken, others within the White House have ma…”
Gabbard: Zelensky has taken total control of media and eliminated opposition
“Well, let's look at what President Zelensky has done since this war started, instituted martial law, taken over complete control of the media, total control. It is now merged together under this one, 24 hour station that is, is literally run by the government.…”
Sanchez: Turning down $100M to avoid building institutional small business rollups
“It is very alluring when people call you and say, hey, do you want a hundred million dollars to go invest in all these small businesses? And instead I got to kind of check myself because I do have an ego and I do think I'm kind of good at this and say like, ac…”
Gabbard: Congressional term limits simply shift power to unelected permanent committee staff
“You implement term limits, the power, the money and the attention shifts from the special interest away from the elected politician and towards the unelected chiefs of staff, professional committee staff members, those who stay on regardless of who the elected…”
Gabbard: The average Congress member attends three lobbyist fundraising events every day
“On average, a member of Congress will go to a breakfast lobbyist fundraising
event, a lunch lobbyist fundraising event, and a dinner lobbyist fundraising event, and walk away with pocketfuls of checks from all of these special interest groups.”
Gabbard: Received Mail-In Ballots for Deceased Homeowners in D.C.
“When I was in Congress and we stayed in D.C. The house that I lived in, the previous owners had been deceased for several years. Election time would come around, and we would get ballots, mail-in ballots in their names, people who had been dead for over seven …”
Gabbard: Limiting Voting to Election Day Handicaps Campaign Victory Chances
“I think it's a big problem for people who are saying that people should only vote on Election Day, when you have all of these other means available to vote, are handicapping their ability to actually win in this election.”