Sep 3, 2024 · 1h 44m · bigdeal
FBI Hostage Negotiator: These Conversation Tactics Will Make You Rich | Chris Voss
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Former FBI lead hostage negotiator Chris Voss joins host Codie Sanchez to reveal tactical negotiation strategies, behavioral archetypes, and psychological techniques designed to master salary reviews, professional communication, and everyday relationships.
How this conversation actually went
Every chapter scored 0–10 on four independent dynamics. Hover any point for the reasoning behind the score. Codie holds 28% of the talking time here. How this is scored →
Codie as informed peer 4.0 Guest teaching 6.1 Guest disagreement 1.0 Codie pushing back 0.1
speaking balance: gold is Codie, purple is the guest (3 minute bins)
Sharpest disagreement ▶ 1:08:40 Voss simulates aggressive 60-second ultimatum voice
Voss snaps into an intense, combative hostage-taker persona ('I need a car in 60 seconds or she dies') to show how hostile assertiveness triggers fight-or-flight shutdown.
Hardest push from Codie ▶ 43:14 Codie challenges rigid stoicism in favor of full emotional spectrumCodie pushes back against pure stoicism and Ryan Holiday's philosophy, arguing that authentic human art and joy require embracing the full emotional spectrum rather than suppressing it.
Biggest teaching moment ▶ 1:04:30 Voss teaches the accusation audit for salary negotiationsVoss educates Codie on how to disarm an employer by preempting their instinctual view that employees are selfish, proving tactical empathy works by demonstrating understanding without agreement.
Codie holds their own ▶ 16:20 Codie presents UK longitudinal study on likability versus competenceCodie demonstrates significant research expertise by presenting findings from a 20-year career progression study proving likability outperforms raw IQ and perceived competence in lifetime earnings.
the scores for every segment, with the reasoning behind each
| Chapter | Topic | Codie as informed peer | Guest teaching | Guest disagreement | Codie pushing back | Why |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| Negotiating with Narcissists and Behavioral Pattern Recognition | 4 | 6 | 1 | 0 | Codie brings up a practical dilemma from her Uber driver regarding negotiating with a narcissist and debating perceived realities. Voss educates her on pattern recognition, asking no-oriented questions, and summarizing the other party's perspective to achieve a 'that's right' breakthrough. | |
| The Assertive Trap: Pop Culture Myths vs. Interpersonal Reality | 3 | 7 | 2 | 1 | Voss immediately diagnoses Codie's default style as assertive and debunks popular media depictions like Suits or courtroom dramas where arguing louder fails in real interpersonal dynamics. Codie accepts the framing with self-deprecating humor. | |
| The Three Negotiation Avatars: Assertive, Analyst, and Accommodator | 3 | 7 | 1 | 0 | Voss outlines his core framework of the three negotiation avatars (Assertive, Analyst, Accommodator) and explains their underlying non-deal priorities. Codie reacts by identifying with the frustration of unproductive accommodator meetings. | |
| Navigating Archetype Mismatches and Shared Silence Dynamics | 3 | 6 | 1 | 0 | Voss describes the demographic distribution of negotiation types and highlights how archetype mismatches, specifically differing views on silence, cause major impasses. Codie listens attentively as Voss explains analyst-accommodator friction. | |
| The Primacy of Likability Over Pure Competence in Business | 7 | 5 | 0 | 0 | Codie cites a 20-year career progression study from the UK showing likability yields higher compensation than pure IQ or perceived competence. Voss strongly reinforces her finding by referencing Stuart Diamond's Wharton data and making the distinction between being likable and needing to be liked. | |
| Decoding Behavioral Traits: The Essential and the Inadequate | 4 | 6 | 1 | 0 | Codie asks how quickly one can identify behavioral archetypes. Voss details how assertives are unmistakably direct while analysts can camouflage as accommodators, concluding that every archetype's baseline trait is both essential and inadequate on its own. | |
| Developing Self-Awareness: Micro-Habits and Mental Rehearsal | 4 | 6 | 1 | 0 | Codie inquires about developing real-time self-awareness during high-stakes communication. Voss applies James Clear's atomic habits framework and athletic mental rehearsal (visioning) to interpersonal dialogue. | |
| Environmental Priming, Dress, and Authentic Transformation | 4 | 5 | 1 | 0 | Codie brings up psychological priming through dress and environmental cues, and Voss connects it to authentic role adaptation rather than fake-it-till-you-make-it. Voss recounts filming Tactical Empathy and training NYPD officers alongside his son. | |
| Daily Mental Hygiene and Overcoming Evolutionary Negativity | 3 | 6 | 0 | 0 | Codie asks how to counteract innate evolutionary negativity. Voss introduces the concept of daily mental hygiene, explaining how micro-habits like gratitude and smiling boost cognitive performance by 31%. | |
| Energetic Reciprocity and Reframing Self-Defeating Labels | 5 | 4 | 0 | 0 | Codie shares an airport mental exercise she uses to counter negative judgment and critiques social media self-labeling among unemployed creators. Voss affirms her energetic perspective and stresses how toxic energy carries commercial penalties. | |
| Curating Information Diets and Adopting the 'Good' Reset | 5 | 5 | 1 | 1 | Voss explains how he curates positive content feeds, models Warren Buffett's headline-scanning technique, and adopts Jocko Willink's 'Good' mantra during setbacks. Codie pushes back gently on stoicism, expressing preference for the full spectrum of emotional experience. | |
| Mid-Episode Call to Action: Community Growth and Reviews | 2 | 7 | 2 | 0 | After Codie's channel call-to-action and question about ghosting, Voss details why ghosting happens and prescribes the exact single-sentence email reset: 'Have you given up on X?'. | |
| Dominating Job Interviews: Strategic Inquiry and Mentorship | 3 | 7 | 1 | 0 | Codie asks for the highest-leverage job interview tactics. Voss delivers two specific strategic inquiries designed to recruit interviewers as vested unofficial mentors and demonstrate organizational commitment. | |
| Operational Efficiency: Communication Mediums and Competency Filters | 6 | 4 | 0 | 0 | Codie explains her operational protocols for screening applicants via book assignments and banning voice notes in favor of Loom at 2x speed. Voss agrees that operational clarity and communication medium alignment are forms of negotiation. | |
| Structuring Direct Communication and Sequencing Bad News | 4 | 7 | 2 | 0 | Voss explains the strategic sequencing of delivering bad news, defending upfront apologies ('I'm sorry') as psychological shock absorbers rather than signs of weakness. Codie explores formatting nuances across business contexts. | |
| Disarming Salary Negotiations Through Tactical Empathy | 3 | 8 | 1 | 0 | Voss lays out a tactical empathy framework for salary negotiations, demonstrating how disarming a supervisor's natural assumption of employee selfishness creates conversational leverage. | |
| The Neurochemistry of Negotiation: Mastering Vocal Tones | 4 | 8 | 2 | 0 | Codie prompts Voss on his 'late-night FM DJ voice'. Voss demonstrates the dramatic shift from an aggressive countdown to a soothing, neurochemically disarming tone that halts cognitive fight-or-flight reactions. | |
| De-escalating Confrontation with Playful Inoculation | 6 | 4 | 0 | 1 | Codie describes how she used humor and self-effacing framing to de-escalate a confrontational audience question about the term 'Latinx' and checks whether her playful sales negotiation lines are too self-centered. Voss affirms her tactic as threat-removal. | |
| Eliminating Passive-Aggressive Behavior and Workplace Bullying | 3 | 6 | 1 | 0 | Voss contrasts self-deprecating humor with passive-aggressive office 'chop-busting', recounting how he had to eliminate bullying behavior from his company because it silenced teammates. | |
| Direct Feedback Frameworks: Mentorship vs. Destructive Criticism | 4 | 6 | 0 | 0 | Codie shares a personal story of being defrauded by an acquaintance who dropped subtle passive-aggressive remarks and asks how to give critical feedback without driving bad behavior underground. Voss provides his direct mentorship script. | |
| The Psychological Strain of Inauthenticity and Undercover Work | 4 | 7 | 1 | 0 | Codie asks if bad actors simply mask their nature after feedback. Voss explains that inauthenticity is physically exhausting and inevitable exhaustion exposes them, drawing parallels to the severe psychological toll on undercover law enforcement agents. | |
| FBI Realities: Headquarters Bureaucracy vs. Field Investigators | 3 | 7 | 1 | 0 | Codie asks about declining public trust in the FBI. Voss delineates the critical distinction between career bureaucrats navigating political appointees at headquarters and field investigators focused strictly on making cases. | |
| Institutional Perception and Visibility in Elite Circles | 4 | 5 | 1 | 0 | Codie asks about institutional backlash against public figures like Voss, Jocko Willink, or Andrew Huberman, and how to maintain resilience. Voss explains the necessity of pre-emptive self-deprecation and refusing to apologize for authenticity. | |
| Unmasking Media Manipulation and Professional Instigation | 5 | 7 | 2 | 0 | Codie cites Voss's public statement regarding mainstream media manipulation during elections. Voss explains the tactical playbook of professional instigators who manipulate peaceful crowds at global summits and analogizes them to media networks, while Codie provides the metaphor of shaken red and black ants. |
Statements from this episode (35)
Chris Voss: People Resist 'Yes' Due to Fear of Hidden Traps
“People are conditioned that if they say yes, they're letting themselves in for something that they don't want. There's a hidden trap. So even if it's something they should say yes to, they won't do it or they're just, they do it painfully because they're, they…”
Voss: Summarize opponents' reality until they confirm it to resolve conflicts
“Summarize to how they see things until they say that's right. Because there's the underlying assumption of that is that your perception of reality is accurate. So while it may be accurate, it's always incomplete. There's no such thing as perfect information.”
Voss: Assertive communicators default to repeating themselves louder when unheard
“I know that that's an aspect of being an assertive. We don't feel heard. We want to say it again more loudly.”
Voss: Assertive negotiators prioritize respect and being heard over closing deals
“Getting what you want is secondary for each type, not primary. What the assertive really wants is respect and to know they've been heard. If you treat an assertive with respect and you show them that they've been heard, they're going to come significantly in y…”
Voss: Analyst negotiators prioritize gathering information over closing deals
“Cause conflict is just one outcome. They see conflict is highly inefficient and it's a, it's an inefficient choice. And there are many other choices. So they just avoid conflict. There are also some people refer to them as avoiders. I think that's an inaccurat…”
Voss: Accommodators prioritize positive relationship interactions over deal outcomes
“Accommodators. What do they want? Relationship oriented, hope oriented, positivity oriented. What they really want is for us to have a great interaction.”
Voss: Global population splits evenly across three conflict archetypes
“We believe strongly that the world splits evenly into thirds. Doesn't matter gender, ethnicity, geography, religion.”
Voss: Shared silence functions as a bonding experience for analysts
“Analysts love to think they love silence. And in silence with you, they will start to bond with you. Shared silence is a bonding experience. Because you're being quiet because you obviously like to think. And you respect that they like to think.”
Voss: Accommodators interpret conversational silence as a signal of fury
“Now, accommodator, relationship oriented. The silent treatment is the meanest thing they could do. It signals fury to go silent.”
Voss: People are six times more likely to deal with a friend
“Anyway, I'm listening to him at a talk one time, and he says, you're six times more likely to make a deal with somebody you like.”
Voss: Taking three seconds of space prevents losing emotional control
“Like if I can get myself three seconds of space, then that's enough time to gather myself up. I get triggered. If I don't give myself that three seconds, and I start going down a rabbit hole, I lose control too.”
Voss: FBI hostage negotiators have a 93% to 94% success rate
“Hostage negotiators have roughly a 93, 94% success rate.”
Voss: People are 31% smarter in a positive frame of mind
“You're 31% smarter in a positive frame of mind.”
Voss: Warren Buffett scans newspaper headlines but refuses to read articles
“Warren Buffett, he scans the headlines, period. He doesn't read the articles. But it, you know, he's known for scanning the headlines of several papers.”
Chris Voss: The media has never been accurate
“Media has never been accurate. And so to say that, you know, the quote, the lamestream media, if you will, well, they were never not that way. We're just a little more aware of it now.”
Voss: People ghost because they feel unheard or lack decision power
“So there's only, there's two, there's only two possibilities why talking to you doesn't do them any good, and it's usually a combination of both. You're not listening, or at least they feel you're not listening, because all you're doing is giving advice, makin…”
Voss: Asking "Have you given up?" ends email ghosting within minutes
“But when you're being ghosted, you're going to get a response within three to five minutes of them seeing it. So when you send it, you ought to be staying by your device in case they see it right away. Cause it's coming, screaming back at you.”
Voss: Strategic Project Question Signals High Ambition and Team Alignment
“That immediately tells your employer, you're a team player. You're not grabbing on your own behalf. And not only you're a team player, you want to play in a championship. So even if you don't get into the championship, they know you want to be there and they n…”
Voss: Asking interviewers how to succeed recruits them as unofficial mentors
“Now what you've just done with that question is recruited an unofficial mentor. Cause they're gonna watch to see if you do what they told you to do. To see if you take instruction. First critical issue. Do you know how to do what you're told? Secondly, they no…”
Codie Sanchez: Asynchronous voice notes are inefficient and rude to recipients
“I think voice notes are rude to the receiver and great for the sender. For the most part. Like, it's nice to send a voice note if you're excited and you're trying to convey emotion, or if you're, you know, if there's something that verbally you have to talk ab…”
Voss: All interactions are negotiations because time is always traded
“Almost everything, why is almost everything in negotiation? You're negotiating for people's time. That's a commodity. Time is always a commodity involved. Even if it's a cash transaction, there's time is involved. Money's not always involved. And most people t…”
Voss: Business emails over five lines border on being too long
“In concise emails, an email that's, once you get north of five lines, you're bordering on it being too long.”
Voss: Say "I'm sorry" before delivering bad news to prep the recipient
“I say I'm sorry all the time in front of bad news, not after it. And it's a softener. It's a warning... If I say, I'm sorry in front, you're like, Ooh, what's coming? You're ready for bad news. You're prepped. If I give you bad news and then say, I'm sorry, th…”
Voss: Bosses are conditioned to view employees as selfish
“So whether we like it or not, bosses, supervisors are conditioned to think of everybody as selfish. Because every time you come to me, you want, all you want is something for yourself. That's the reality.”
Voss: Tactical empathy requires demonstrating understanding without agreement
“You can say it in a way you can demonstrate understanding without agreement. This is the way it seems to you. I'm going to seem like a jerk. That doesn't say that you are. It's an awareness of the impact that you're going to have on the other side, based on th…”
Voss: Vocal tone triggers involuntary neurochemical reactions in a listener's brain
“These are neurochemical reactions. These are not voluntary reactions. This is hard science. These are neurochemicals. I can pick your brain up or down based on a tone of my voice. Now you can fight it, but you can't stop me from triggering the reaction.”
Voss: The first move in de-escalating conflict is removing yourself as a threat
“Your first move is to remove yourself as a threat. Then you're out of conflict because you're no longer a threat.”
Voss: Piling onto self-effacing humor reveals a general lack of team empathy
“Cause I'll make fun of myself. And if somebody really wants to run with it, then I know, and then I know, all right, so if you're ignoring my feelings, you're ignoring the feelings of other people on a team as well.”
Voss: Inauthenticity is exhausting and people reveal their true selves when tired
“Basically in inauthentic is exhausting, and they can't keep up with the lies. So if they're hiding from you who they are, when they get tired, you're going to see who they are. So they'll be able to keep it up early in the morning, fresh cup of coffee, rocking…”
Voss: Going undercover psychologically ruins almost every law enforcement agent involved
“Going undercover almost ruins everybody that does it. It's such a problem that there, every law enforcement agency that has undercovers sets up a lot of psychologists to try to fix these people.”
Voss: The 9/11 investigation was solved by FBI New York, not Headquarters
“Nine 11 was solved by FBI New York. And Mueller had just taken over, and they wanted headquarters to be in charge, but FBI New York knew what was going on, so what they did, so the headquarters were being charged, they transferred everybody into New York to he…”
Voss: FBI Headquarters is 80% career bureaucrats serving political appointees
“FBI headquarters is mostly not exclusively. They got a few great leaders there. But they're 80% career bureaucrats, and then they work ultimately for a political appointee. So they got to try to navigate that whipsaw.”
Voss: Donald Trump gained admiration simply by refusing to ever apologize
“Whatever you think of Donald Trump, love him or hate him, nobody's in the middle. I think he gained so much admiration by refusing to back off of what he said. And every politician prior to him, they'd say something and they get criticized and a politician say…”
Voss: Six instigators can turn a 2,000-person peaceful crowd into a mob
“And then they show us how a crowd of peaceful demonstrators, numbering anywhere from 50 to 2000, Can be turned into a raging violent mob by six instigators. Only six instigators to turn a peaceful crowd of a thousand into a raging violent mob.”
Voss: Fox News and CNN intentionally act as professional instigators
“And the people with the megaphones are professional instigators. They want us at each other's throats. And I think if we're just aware that their intent is to instigate, whether they be with Fox news or whether they be with CNN, Their intent is to instigate.”