The Exchanges

Q That makes sense. And in this whole thing, China's obviously watching really closely. We spend most of our time talking about China when we talk about defense. And this, this is kind of, you know, unexpected development for a lot of us. Like, is this going to change their calculations on Taiwan? What is, what is, what are they thinking?

A I think so. And I hope so. And I'll, I'll say a few things. Uh, you're right. China is watching. Taiwan is watching. Uh, Asia is watching. So a few things that have come out of this. And I, I said this at the time, uh, China, I believe was watching to see how the United States and our NATO Slash EU partners would react. Would we unify? Would we come together? Would we be willing to pay tough economic sanctions on Russia? Because look, if we won't push it, put tough sanctions on Russia, which is, has one 10th the size of the economy of China, then we wouldn't do it to Beijing. So I was glad to see the allies come together, number one. Number two, I was really pleased to see, uh, Japan, Korea, Australia, and other Indo-Pacific partners, uh, come on board early and criticize and condemn the Russian invasion.

AI assessment note: “I think so. And I hope so. And I'll, I'll say a few things.”

Q It's, uh, called A Sacred Oath, Memoirs of a Secretary of Defense During Extraordinary Times. Uh, what inspired the book? And can you, can you give us a little preview of the types of things you're going to be talking about?

A Sure. Well, as you know, I can't talk too much about it, but yeah, it comes out May 10th, and, uh, you can order now if you want on Amazon or any other major bookseller. But I, I thought it was important to really give the insights of a cabinet member, particularly the Department of Defense, which was Uh, which is in the middle of so many big important events during the Trump administration and share with folks what I saw from my perch in one of the most tumultuous periods in American history. And as I've thought back and reflected upon this, you know, during the year, 20, 20 alone, I had to deal with, you know, a, a, a, a global pandemic we hadn't seen in a hundred years, civil unrest we hadn't dealt with in generations. We had to deal with, uh, China and Russia on the move, conflict with Iran. We're still dealing with, uh, Afghanistan. It was a very busy time, and, ah, and so what I want to do is share with the American people my experiences. Certainly history demands that there be a, you know, a good thorough counting of what happened during this period, and I also want to speak to, you know, students of government or people currently in government to share with them my experiences, how I approach problems, share with them where I thought I did things well, and maybe didn't do things as well.

AI assessment note: “I thought it was important to really give the insights of a cabinet member”

Q And, and, and so sticking back to this conflict as a whole, how does this end and what, what, what else could we be doing without risking escalation with Moscow? How should we be thinking about this?

A Well, that is the question. I think number one, we don't want to risk an escalation between the United States or NATO and Russia. I think that could lead us to bad places that we don't want to get into. We want to narrow the conflict, not expand it. Uh, but where we end up is, is the question, uh, can Putin walk away with a loss? I don't think so. He's gonna have to find a face saving way out. I think folks are gonna try and help him do that. Um, at this point, I think his tactics will continue to be the indiscriminate shelling of Ukrainian cities. It tried to break their will. My sense is, though, that Ukrainians are tough people, and they're not going to yield. But you do see, you pick up through the media, that both sides are putting things on the table that maybe they could live with a, um, with a, uh, Ukraine that isn't pursuing NATO membership, for example, and maybe some type of different arrangement when it comes to the Donbass region. We'll see. Uh, you know, people have asked me my thoughts. What should it be? My view is we need to follow the lead of President Zelensky and the Ukrainian people and see what, what they want and what they're willing to live with.

AI assessment note: “we need to follow the lead of President Zelensky and the Ukrainian people”

Q Yeah, you gotta be taking risk. So, so talking about the policy successes from your tenure as defense secretary, I understand your top priority was implementing the national defense strategy. What were you able to accomplish, and how do you measure the success of that?

A Look, I think first and foremost, if the United States is going to beat China in the long run, and Russia, of course, in the closer term, we have to have an integrated system of allies and partners. And I really spent a lot of time on the road meeting with our allies and partners, talking about readiness, how can we work better together, et cetera. Beyond that, I also focused, focused inside the building. You know, I did identify China as our pacing threat. We did a number of things to, to reorient this system. We came up with new, a new war fighting concept, new models of operational and tactical readiness. I focused on writing Uh, a plan for a future Navy that could deal with China in the 21st century, and that would keep, make sure that we are the, the primary, uh, best naval force on the planet. So there are a number of things along those lines. And then also, I, I spent a lot of time looking at our military families and our military spouses. I, that's the backbone of our military strength is a, is a, it's a family business, if you will, but taking care of those who serve.

AI assessment note: “We came up with new, a new war fighting concept, new models”

Q none of the top couple hundred people are looking for jobs in the Pentagon, which, which to me is very scary. And, and, and so if, if, first of all, how are you, like, who is mapping these out? There must be some smart people, but, but if you're not getting the best and brightest technologists, are you probably missing some possibilities there in terms of how you game it?

A Well, there has been a lot of look at that. I know I did it as army secretary of how do you bring that talent in? A big part of that is pay, right? You know, the private sector is going to pay a lot better, but the advantage that we have in the government is we can offer folks the opportunity to do things they wouldn't be able to do anywhere else. So I think we need to continue to look at that. We need to make it attractive. Uh, in, in terms of serving your country and, and, and being able to do that. And then you have to address quality of life issues. But look, we have to get further on the cutting edge. We're not yet there on all things, because, uh, you know, it's not just drones. It's, to me, it's artificial intelligence. It's directed energy. It's the hypersonics.

AI assessment note: “I know I did it as army secretary of how do you bring that talent in”

Q East right now. And, and I actually really see a lot of promise now Israel and UAE and Saudi and others are, Kind of actually working together with the Abraham Accords. I think in part, thanks to this. So there's maybe some good things have come of it, but, but what are we going to do with Iran and what's going on with this, with this deal that's been made?

A You know, it is a great culture and great people, the Persian culture and Iranian people, but they are led by this, you know, religious extremists who've been in power now since. And obviously the United States and Iran have not had relations since then. It's been a history of conflict, unfortunately so. And what I used to always say is, look, we just want you to behave like a normal country. And, and not sponsor terrorist groups, uh, from Africa all the way across to the Middle East and, and engage with your neighbors in a positive way. But we have to continue to deal with that. So I think that is, is the biggest challenge we face now in the Middle East. And it has had, interestingly, a unifying effect between the Gulf Arab states and Israel. And I think it was also advanced by the Abraham Accords, uh, that was signed at the end of the Trump administration. So all those things are positives on one hand, but clearly Iran is going to be the challenge for the coming years in that region.

AI assessment note: “what I used to always say is, look, we just want you to behave”