Jan 2, 2019 · 25m · a16z

a16z Podcast | Apple and the Widgetification of Everything

Benedict Evans · 11m spoken Frank Chen · 6m spoken Kyle Russell · 5m spoken Sonal Chokshi · 19s spoken
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In this episode of the a16z Podcast, tech experts analyze Apple's WWDC announcements and broader software trends across iOS, macOS, and watchOS. The discussion examines Apple's strategies around on-device artificial intelligence, differential privacy, and the platformication of core apps like iMessage and Siri.

How this conversation actually went

Every chapter scored 0–10 on four independent dynamics. Hover any point for the reasoning behind the score. The host holds 1.2% of the talking time here. How this is scored →

The host as informed peer 3.1 Guest teaching 3.9 Guest disagreement 1.3 The host pushing back 0.6
05100:0010:0020:001:43–5:36 · The host as informed peer 2/10 Platformication of Apple's Core Apps vs. Competitors Host Kyle Russell opens with a general framing prompt on Apple's platformication. Benedict Evans and Frank Chen provide expansive breakdowns comparing Apple's developer-centric bottom-up model with Google's top-down approach.5:36–8:08 · The host as informed peer 3/10 AI Strategy, User Privacy, and Differential Privacy Kyle sets up the tension between user privacy and data-heavy AI requirements. Frank Chen explains the mechanics of deep learning and introduces differential privacy, explaining the cryptographic separation of identity from training data.8:08–11:17 · The host as informed peer 3/10 On-Device AI Processing vs. Cloud Computing Kyle asks about the trade-offs of on-device neural network processing versus cloud computing. Frank Chen and Benedict Evans detail the difference between model training on server farms and running inference classifiers locally on mobile hardware.11:17–17:31 · The host as informed peer 4/10 Widgetification, Lock Screens, and Evolving Interaction Models Benedict analyzes lock screen widgets and interaction model shifts. Kyle demonstrates solid domain knowledge by providing the SiriKit and Fandango skill-routing analogy, which Benedict affirms and expands upon.17:31–19:47 · The host as informed peer 4/10 iPad OS Strategy, Subscription Economics, and iMessage Evolution Kyle presses on the conspicuous absence of dedicated iPad features in the iOS 10 keynote. Benedict explains how recent hardware reboots and app store subscription pricing changes address developer economics for iPad software.19:47–24:58 · The host as informed peer 4/10 Apple's AI Narrative vs. Google's AI-First Vision Frank Chen links iMessage enhancements to WeChat platform models and recalls Apple's 1987 Knowledge Navigator concept. Benedict and Frank critique Apple's conservative AI marketing, with Benedict expressing skepticism about Apple competing with ML giants while operating with hands tied behind its back.24:58–25:29 · The host as informed peer 2/10 Conclusion and Summary of Tech Trends Kyle delivers a brief sign-off summarizing broader tech ecosystem trends across Apple, Google, Facebook, and Microsoft.1:43–5:36 · Guest teaching 4/10 Platformication of Apple's Core Apps vs. Competitors Host Kyle Russell opens with a general framing prompt on Apple's platformication. Benedict Evans and Frank Chen provide expansive breakdowns comparing Apple's developer-centric bottom-up model with Google's top-down approach.5:36–8:08 · Guest teaching 5/10 AI Strategy, User Privacy, and Differential Privacy Kyle sets up the tension between user privacy and data-heavy AI requirements. Frank Chen explains the mechanics of deep learning and introduces differential privacy, explaining the cryptographic separation of identity from training data.8:08–11:17 · Guest teaching 5/10 On-Device AI Processing vs. Cloud Computing Kyle asks about the trade-offs of on-device neural network processing versus cloud computing. Frank Chen and Benedict Evans detail the difference between model training on server farms and running inference classifiers locally on mobile hardware.11:17–17:31 · Guest teaching 4/10 Widgetification, Lock Screens, and Evolving Interaction Models Benedict analyzes lock screen widgets and interaction model shifts. Kyle demonstrates solid domain knowledge by providing the SiriKit and Fandango skill-routing analogy, which Benedict affirms and expands upon.17:31–19:47 · Guest teaching 4/10 iPad OS Strategy, Subscription Economics, and iMessage Evolution Kyle presses on the conspicuous absence of dedicated iPad features in the iOS 10 keynote. Benedict explains how recent hardware reboots and app store subscription pricing changes address developer economics for iPad software.19:47–24:58 · Guest teaching 5/10 Apple's AI Narrative vs. Google's AI-First Vision Frank Chen links iMessage enhancements to WeChat platform models and recalls Apple's 1987 Knowledge Navigator concept. Benedict and Frank critique Apple's conservative AI marketing, with Benedict expressing skepticism about Apple competing with ML giants while operating with hands tied behind its back.24:58–25:29 · Guest teaching 0/10 Conclusion and Summary of Tech Trends Kyle delivers a brief sign-off summarizing broader tech ecosystem trends across Apple, Google, Facebook, and Microsoft.1:43–5:36 · Guest disagreement 1/10 Platformication of Apple's Core Apps vs. Competitors Host Kyle Russell opens with a general framing prompt on Apple's platformication. Benedict Evans and Frank Chen provide expansive breakdowns comparing Apple's developer-centric bottom-up model with Google's top-down approach.5:36–8:08 · Guest disagreement 1/10 AI Strategy, User Privacy, and Differential Privacy Kyle sets up the tension between user privacy and data-heavy AI requirements. Frank Chen explains the mechanics of deep learning and introduces differential privacy, explaining the cryptographic separation of identity from training data.8:08–11:17 · Guest disagreement 1/10 On-Device AI Processing vs. Cloud Computing Kyle asks about the trade-offs of on-device neural network processing versus cloud computing. Frank Chen and Benedict Evans detail the difference between model training on server farms and running inference classifiers locally on mobile hardware.11:17–17:31 · Guest disagreement 1/10 Widgetification, Lock Screens, and Evolving Interaction Models Benedict analyzes lock screen widgets and interaction model shifts. Kyle demonstrates solid domain knowledge by providing the SiriKit and Fandango skill-routing analogy, which Benedict affirms and expands upon.17:31–19:47 · Guest disagreement 2/10 iPad OS Strategy, Subscription Economics, and iMessage Evolution Kyle presses on the conspicuous absence of dedicated iPad features in the iOS 10 keynote. Benedict explains how recent hardware reboots and app store subscription pricing changes address developer economics for iPad software.19:47–24:58 · Guest disagreement 3/10 Apple's AI Narrative vs. Google's AI-First Vision Frank Chen links iMessage enhancements to WeChat platform models and recalls Apple's 1987 Knowledge Navigator concept. Benedict and Frank critique Apple's conservative AI marketing, with Benedict expressing skepticism about Apple competing with ML giants while operating with hands tied behind its back.24:58–25:29 · Guest disagreement 0/10 Conclusion and Summary of Tech Trends Kyle delivers a brief sign-off summarizing broader tech ecosystem trends across Apple, Google, Facebook, and Microsoft.1:43–5:36 · The host pushing back 0/10 Platformication of Apple's Core Apps vs. Competitors Host Kyle Russell opens with a general framing prompt on Apple's platformication. Benedict Evans and Frank Chen provide expansive breakdowns comparing Apple's developer-centric bottom-up model with Google's top-down approach.5:36–8:08 · The host pushing back 0/10 AI Strategy, User Privacy, and Differential Privacy Kyle sets up the tension between user privacy and data-heavy AI requirements. Frank Chen explains the mechanics of deep learning and introduces differential privacy, explaining the cryptographic separation of identity from training data.8:08–11:17 · The host pushing back 0/10 On-Device AI Processing vs. Cloud Computing Kyle asks about the trade-offs of on-device neural network processing versus cloud computing. Frank Chen and Benedict Evans detail the difference between model training on server farms and running inference classifiers locally on mobile hardware.11:17–17:31 · The host pushing back 1/10 Widgetification, Lock Screens, and Evolving Interaction Models Benedict analyzes lock screen widgets and interaction model shifts. Kyle demonstrates solid domain knowledge by providing the SiriKit and Fandango skill-routing analogy, which Benedict affirms and expands upon.17:31–19:47 · The host pushing back 2/10 iPad OS Strategy, Subscription Economics, and iMessage Evolution Kyle presses on the conspicuous absence of dedicated iPad features in the iOS 10 keynote. Benedict explains how recent hardware reboots and app store subscription pricing changes address developer economics for iPad software.19:47–24:58 · The host pushing back 1/10 Apple's AI Narrative vs. Google's AI-First Vision Frank Chen links iMessage enhancements to WeChat platform models and recalls Apple's 1987 Knowledge Navigator concept. Benedict and Frank critique Apple's conservative AI marketing, with Benedict expressing skepticism about Apple competing with ML giants while operating with hands tied behind its back.24:58–25:29 · The host pushing back 0/10 Conclusion and Summary of Tech Trends Kyle delivers a brief sign-off summarizing broader tech ecosystem trends across Apple, Google, Facebook, and Microsoft.

speaking balance: gold is the host, purple is the guest (3 minute bins)

0:00 · the host 10.6% · guest 89.4%0:00 · the host 10.6% · guest 89.4%3:00 · the host 0% · guest 100%3:00 · the host 0% · guest 100%6:00 · the host 0% · guest 100%6:00 · the host 0% · guest 100%9:00 · the host 0% · guest 100%9:00 · the host 0% · guest 100%12:00 · the host 0% · guest 100%12:00 · the host 0% · guest 100%15:00 · the host 0% · guest 100%15:00 · the host 0% · guest 100%18:00 · the host 0% · guest 100%18:00 · the host 0% · guest 100%21:00 · the host 0% · guest 100%21:00 · the host 0% · guest 100%24:00 · the host 0% · guest 100%24:00 · the host 0% · guest 100%
Sharpest disagreement ▶ 24:31 Skepticism on Apple's Privacy-Restricted AI

Benedict Evans forcefully pushes back against Apple's marketing narrative, noting that Apple is attempting machine learning with 'their hands tied behind their back' compared to Google, expressing healthy skepticism.

Hardest push from the host ▶ 17:31 Challenging the iPad Strategy Omission

Kyle Russell calls out Apple's keynote presentation for omitting iPad-specific software updates in iOS 10, forcing Benedict to defend Apple's broader iPad reboot strategy.

Biggest teaching moment ▶ 6:37 Deep Learning vs Differential Privacy Breakdown

Frank Chen systematically educates the host on why deep learning algorithms require massive data sets and explains the cryptographic trade-offs of differential privacy.

The host holds their own ▶ 15:55 Explicit SiriKit Skill Routing Analogy

Kyle Russell demonstrates strong domain expertise by offering a precise comparison between SiriKit's developer routing model (like Fandango skills) and Google's implicit query resolution.

the scores for every segment, with the reasoning behind each
ChapterTopicThe host as informed peerGuest teachingGuest disagreementThe host pushing backWhy
Platformication of Apple's Core Apps vs. Competitors 2410 Host Kyle Russell opens with a general framing prompt on Apple's platformication. Benedict Evans and Frank Chen provide expansive breakdowns comparing Apple's developer-centric bottom-up model with Google's top-down approach.
AI Strategy, User Privacy, and Differential Privacy 3510 Kyle sets up the tension between user privacy and data-heavy AI requirements. Frank Chen explains the mechanics of deep learning and introduces differential privacy, explaining the cryptographic separation of identity from training data.
On-Device AI Processing vs. Cloud Computing 3510 Kyle asks about the trade-offs of on-device neural network processing versus cloud computing. Frank Chen and Benedict Evans detail the difference between model training on server farms and running inference classifiers locally on mobile hardware.
Widgetification, Lock Screens, and Evolving Interaction Models 4411 Benedict analyzes lock screen widgets and interaction model shifts. Kyle demonstrates solid domain knowledge by providing the SiriKit and Fandango skill-routing analogy, which Benedict affirms and expands upon.
iPad OS Strategy, Subscription Economics, and iMessage Evolution 4422 Kyle presses on the conspicuous absence of dedicated iPad features in the iOS 10 keynote. Benedict explains how recent hardware reboots and app store subscription pricing changes address developer economics for iPad software.
Apple's AI Narrative vs. Google's AI-First Vision 4531 Frank Chen links iMessage enhancements to WeChat platform models and recalls Apple's 1987 Knowledge Navigator concept. Benedict and Frank critique Apple's conservative AI marketing, with Benedict expressing skepticism about Apple competing with ML giants while operating with hands tied behind its back.
Conclusion and Summary of Tech Trends 2000 Kyle delivers a brief sign-off summarizing broader tech ecosystem trends across Apple, Google, Facebook, and Microsoft.

Statements from this episode (11)

Opinion
Russell: Apple's iOS app platformization mirrors Facebook and Google developer strategies
“Frankly, it sounded a lot like what Facebook and Google have been showing off taking apps that people use every day and introducing ways for developers to kind of become part of that experience.”
Kyle Russell Jan 2, 2019 ▶ 1:35
Insight
Evans: Google's AI acts as an oracle, while Apple's is an assistant
“Sort of the all-knowing, wants to be the all-knowing oracle, and you can ask it something, and it will just know the answer, or it'll even suggest it before you do it. Whereas Apple, it's more like, kind of the, I don't know, it's like the servant that follows…”
Benedict Evans Jan 2, 2019 ▶ 4:00
Insight
Chen: App discovery shifts from home screens to voice assistants like Siri
“If you think about how do you find applications and content, we've gone from, well, the start button on your desktop OS controls that, right? You hit the start button and applications show up. Then we went to mobile, which was your home screen controls that, r…”
Frank Chen Jan 2, 2019 ▶ 4:37
Opinion
Chen: Apple and Google have fundamentally opposing data monetization models
“Apple and Google couldn't be more different on this, and Apple wants to emphasize the difference, which is, Apple says, we make money when you buy iPhones, so we don't have to monetize you in any other ways. We don't have to look in your email. We don't have t…”
Frank Chen Jan 2, 2019 ▶ 6:38
Assertion Supported
Chen: Differential privacy guarantees inherently reduce AI prediction accuracy
“So there's a trade-off between how much security you can guarantee and then the accuracy of their predictions.”
Frank Chen Jan 2, 2019 ▶ 7:54
Assertion Supported
Chen: Apple developer APIs allow on-device neural network inferences
“So what is clear that you can do with the Apple neural network stuff is you can get trained networks, and then you can run the classifiers, make inferences is what they call it if you read the developer documentation, On device.”
Frank Chen Jan 2, 2019 ▶ 9:42
Prediction Not checkable as stated
Evans: Installing a mobile app will lose meaning within five years
“If I was to say I installed an app on my smartphone in five years time, I don't quite know what that word would mean.”
Benedict Evans Jan 2, 2019 ▶ 12:58
Insight
Evans: Apple relies on third-party developers to match Google's AI capabilities
“And I think the kind of the platformization that we saw earlier is interesting as an attempt to solve some of the problems that Google is solving with its kind of pervasive, all-knowing AI, but getting third-party developers to solve those problems instead.”
Benedict Evans Jan 2, 2019 ▶ 14:34
Insight
Evans: App Store subscriptions unlock sustainable economics for productivity software
“The introduction of new subscription pricing options last week, potentially changes the economics for a developer, because now if you're going to make a really interesting productivity app, instead of having to charge 50 dollars for it, or give it away for fre…”
Benedict Evans Jan 2, 2019 ▶ 18:14
Prediction Held up
Chen: Full applications will eventually run directly inside Apple's iMessage
“It's only a matter of time before you get a full on application in there.”
Frank Chen Jan 2, 2019 ▶ 20:47
Insight
Evans: Apple views cloud as storage, Google views phones as dumb glass
“Apple thinks about the cloud as dumb storage and Google thinks about the phone as done of dumb glass.”
Benedict Evans Jan 2, 2019 ▶ 23:00
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