Jan 2, 2019 · 35m · a16z
a16z Podcast | Produce or Perish! (What We Eat)
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gold bands on the timeline = statements, start to end. Hover to read, click to jump. CC turns on captions
In this episode of the a16z podcast, Apeel Sciences founder James Rogers and a16z partner Malinka Walioladi discuss how nanoscale material science can eliminate global food waste and transform agricultural supply chains. By applying natural, plant-derived molecular coatings to fresh produce, Apeel extends shelf life, empowers smallholder farmers, and enables developing markets to bypass capital-intensive cold storage infrastructure.
How this conversation actually went
Every chapter scored 0–10 on four independent dynamics. Hover any point for the reasoning behind the score. The host holds 26.3% of the talking time here. How this is scored →
The host as informed peer 5.0 Guest teaching 5.1 Guest disagreement 1.3 The host pushing back 2.9
speaking balance: gold is the host, purple is the guest (3 minute bins)
Sharpest disagreement ▶ 23:03 Guest politely refutes host's hardware scaling premise
When Sonal asks if custom instrumentation causes scaling trade-offs akin to semiconductor fabs, James directly refutes the assumption by pointing out that modern low-cost microcontrollers completely alter that R&D math.
Hardest push from the host ▶ 4:42 Host calls berry preservation a high-class problemSonal directly confronts the premise of the product, explicitly stating that preserving berries sounds like a high-class problem and demanding to know its true systemic benefit.
Biggest teaching moment ▶ 11:11 Guest explains cold chain realities in developing marketsJames educates the host on how US refrigeration only manages to curb waste to 30-40% while explaining why telling off-grid developing nations to build traditional cold chains is practically impossible.
The host holds their own ▶ 12:42 Host synthesizes tech frameworks and Zipline analogySonal displays deep familiarity with venture startup frameworks, citing Zipline's drone delivery in Rwanda, PC-to-mobile leapfrogging, and Chris Dixon's full-stack startup thesis to elevate the discussion.
the scores for every segment, with the reasoning behind each
| Chapter | Topic | The host as informed peer | Guest teaching | Guest disagreement | The host pushing back | Why |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| How Apeel Preserves Fresh Produce Naturally | 3 | 5 | 1 | 2 | Sonal asks introductory clarifying questions about produce safety and texture while bringing up strawberry pesticide stats. James explains how Apeel extracts precise molecular building blocks from agricultural byproducts to preserve produce naturally. | |
| Solving Perishability for Global Smallholder Farmers | 3 | 6 | 2 | 7 | Sonal challenges the core utility by suggesting preserving premium berries sounds like a high-class problem. James reframes the issue around global smallholder farmers who face devastating financial losses due to crop perishability and lack of market access. | |
| Agricultural Supply Chains and Leapfrogging Cold Storage | 8 | 4 | 1 | 2 | Sonal demonstrates strong tech industry expertise by tying Apeel's infrastructure bypass to drone delivery in Rwanda, mobile leapfrogging, and full-stack startup theory. James and Malinka outline the severe limitations of traditional cold-chain refrigeration. | |
| Redefining Tech: Molecules vs. Synthetic Chemicals | 4 | 5 | 1 | 3 | Sonal probes the definition of Apeel's tech as basic shredded plant parts, prompting James to define the philosophical difference between synthetic chemicals and evolutionary molecules. Sonal extends this logic to cosmetics and skincare preservation. | |
| Material Science R&D, Custom Instrumentation, and Rapid Iteration | 6 | 6 | 2 | 4 | Sonal questions whether building custom internal tools creates a manufacturing scaling bottleneck similar to semiconductor fabs. James counters by explaining how low-cost Arduinos, Raspberry Pis, and 3D printing dramatically accelerate R&D feedback loops. | |
| The Broader Renaissance of Material Science | 5 | 5 | 1 | 1 | Malinka and James discuss the renaissance of material science beyond traditional R&D. Sonal contributes insights on government funding's role in interdisciplinary sciences and additive manufacturing applications like space printing. | |
| The Future of Grocery Stores and Produce Diversity | 6 | 5 | 1 | 1 | James details how extending shelf life allows rare crops like finger limes to enter commercial grocery stores. Sonal synthesizes this into a broader conceptual model of technology dissolving geographic and temporal borders. |
Statements from this episode (16)
James Rogers: Apeel extracts specific molecular isomers for lightweight produce coatings
“We actually know down to the isomer what these materials are when we create these blends. We then extract those really particular subsets of materials. I turn them into powders. So they're lightweight, they're low cost to distribute. And then we ship them to w…”
James Rogers: Apeel's protective produce coating is completely imperceptible to taste
“Yeah, you actually, you can't taste it. It actually tastes much closer to the fruit when it was actually picked originally.”
James Rogers: Apeel uses natural plant building blocks instead of synthetic materials
“The trick about what we're doing is that it's not some sort of synthetic material that nature's never seen before. We're just using the exact same building blocks that nature uses every single day, and we're simply repurposing them for a different application.”
James Rogers: Driscoll's data shows berry shoppers spend double at grocery stores
“If the joke at, you know, at the retail level is that the berry consumer spends twice the number of dollars in the grocery store as a non-berry consumer. And so it, according to Driscoll's, that's true.”
James Rogers: Air freighting avocados to China costs more than the fruit
“In the case of avocados, you know, the price of shipping a box of avocados to China is more expensive than the box of avocados itself, because of perishability, you have to air freight them in.”
James Rogers: Extra week of mango shelf life increases farmer income
“What we found in talking to smallholder farmers is that if you can extend the shelf life of a mango by an extra week, they can earn an extra three to five shillings per mango.”
James Rogers: Produce spoilage rates in US reach 33% to 50%
“If you look at spoilage rates in the United States and, you know, the numbers are kind of all over the place, but they're between a third and a half.”
James Rogers: 80% of fresh water usage goes to agricultural irrigation
“You know, the numbers are around 80% of fresh water going into irrigation, you know, all of the pesticide usage that ends up, you know, running into the water streams that ends, that's, you know, putting pesticides on fruit that we're not even eating, all the …”
James Rogers: Harvest losses reach up to 90% in developing countries
“Now, so you start talking about trying to be able to reduce losses, which can be, you know, 80, 90% of a harvest in the developing world.”
James Rogers: Doubling produce shelf life effectively doubles transportation speed
“You know, one of the ways I look at our product as well as infrastructure in a packet, you've got really poor roads and now you're able to get that produce a certain distance before it goes bad. Well, if you double the shelf life of that produce, it's effectiv…”
James Rogers: Synthetic pesticides inevitably harm beneficial organisms alongside targeted pests
“The problem is, is that those processes that we generally interfere with are really valuable processes. That's why they've stuck around for so long, and so they're used by many, many, many different types of life forms, and so it's incredibly challenging to po…”
James Rogers: Middle Age monks preserved apples through winter using beeswax
“Monks discovered in the Middle Ages that you were able to dip apples in beeswax, and they would last throughout the winter.”
James Rogers: Apeel Sciences powers hardware testing using Raspberry Pis and Arduinos
“For us, our entire office runs on Raspberry Pis and Arduino units that control controllers to measure different stuff.”
James Rogers: Future household wealth will be defined by 3D printer capability
“And I think it's, I mean, I think in the future you're going to have a fancy three D printer in your home and how wealthy you are is going to be what type of three D printer you have. If you're really wealthy, you can print the latest and greatest iPhone. If y…”
James Rogers: Plant breeders prioritize crop transportability over taste and nutrition
“When you look at what plant breeders do basically is when they're breeding a new crop, they're looking down the list and the number one thing on their list is transportability and taste and attrition is like level 12 or 13 on the list.”
James Rogers: Apeel extended finger lime shelf life from 5 to 25 days
“And the challenge with them is, you know, they brought them in the US, they grow a bunch of them, but the shelf life of these things is like five days, maybe. A supply chain that, that only lasts five days doesn't get you into very many stores. It's just not r…”