The Exchanges

Q So, well, let's, let's talk about that. Cause I'm, I'm not aware of that situation and it seems like you've got some work to do. So I'm curious, maybe I can help you there. So you have this app and you, you exited the app. What was the app about when, why did you think you could have made more by exiting earlier?

A Right. I haven't, haven't, Exit yet. I still, I still have it. The business is still running. It's profitable. It's, it's, it's, it's good, but it's tired, right? So like time has changed, right? I launched this thing, this little, this little app. Um, and I remember, uh, in 2009, I made a presentation in a local meetup. I call this the million dollar app because, um, The week prior, somebody made a presentation is called a thousand dollar app. Like they make an app and sell it for a thousand dollars right on, on the app store. And it was a big deal. A thousand dollar app. And I said, this is a million dollar app. Um, so I, so I, so I did this, um, this app, what, what it does is a simple is digital form. Extremely simple. It's makes forms. Um, people use paper form. You just, you just We recreate those forms on, on mobile, and that's the business. That's boring business problems. Um, but guess what? It's a lot of people have that problem, especially the early days. So we sat on, um, we sat on app store, especially the iPad app store on the business, um, business section of the iPad app store first page for a few months because there was none. There was none, no, no business apps on the iPad store. Um, I still remember in the early days, like, um, people was like, what, why you make this on iOS? Makes no sense. It should be on, on Blackberry. Every business app, it's on Blackbe…

AI assessment note: “I haven't, haven't, Exit yet. I still, I still have it.”

Q And, and what made you think it was better to keep going? Because you said that you, you, you don't know in the moment.

A This goes back to, I don't want, I don't like the, I don't like to well traveled road. Um, I, I, it's like, I'm, I'm a perpetual teenager. Whatever elders, like advisors told me to do, I was like, you, you exited a hundred million. I, I, I'm not going to. Um, something like that. So that is one, right? One side of that. Um, another side is I don't, at the time I told myself, I don't care about exiting. I don't care about this, like many zeros in my bank account. I care about my team. I care about just having fun with the team. Now, looking back, of course, I, of course, more zeros in the bank account is better than, um, better than current. Um, but And, um, but I didn't know then, and, and what drove, yeah, again, to answer your question, it's about, it's the same kind of personality that drove me to entrepreneurship in the first place that drove me to like, don't, don't like to listen to, um, to advise. And, um, yeah. So do I regret that? I regret that every single day. But I, I remind myself like, I'm still doing okay. So.

AI assessment note: “at the time I told myself, I don't care about exiting.”

Q What made you want to become an entrepreneur? Was it living in the U S or was there some part of your life in Hong Kong that kind of gave you that spark before you came?

A I started my first company, um, a year before I graduated from college. So what sparked that I think is the, is the, is the thinking that I don't want to follow. I've never wanted to follow. Um, I love the thought of leading. So in high school, I, I'm not, I mean, in Hong Kong, I mean, so, so I talked about a little bit about the cultural shock, talk about a lot, a little bit about education system. So in Hong Kong, I wasn't a great, like the top student. I mean, I wasn't like straight A type student. Um, but I still want to lead on things that I could. I think The desire to not follow, which translated the desire to want to lead. I mean, drive me to, to, um, to entrepreneurship.

AI assessment note: “what sparked that I think is the thinking that I don't want to follow.”

Q How did your family take it when you told them that you wanted to start a business?

A I mean, they didn't know for a long time. Like, so I, I, I started the first gig, like, like I said, before I graduated. So at that time they didn't make anything of it because it's, it's, it's nothing. I, I still will graduate. If, if at the time I told them I would drop out and they will freak out. Right. But I didn't, I say, I, I'll just do this. And then they thought it was a hobby. And then the next gig was, I started a training school, um, at the time around, around year, 2000. Teaching Java at the time. I mean, if for whoever was there, Java was a big deal. And, and at that time, I still have a full time job. So like, that was quite crazy. When I was building my training school, I had a full time job, and then teaching seven days a week. I think it's not until I started Um, this company is very on software building iPhone builder that my fam, my, my parents end up knowing that like, it's a big deal. I'm doing it at the time I've married. I mean, it's more like, more like my, my, um, my wife was keep asking, like, are you sure you want to do this? Like she observed me like being struggling. It's hard. Right. Cause. And at the time I, I told her, I mean, If this fail, I'll go back to doing less and making more. I mean, like, to me, that's like, okay, well, why wouldn't I do this? Like, if it fails, I'll go back to coding, doing consulting, And that is doing less and gettin…

AI assessment note: “they didn't know for a long time... they thought it was a hobby.”

Q better guests that have better stories and improve our ability to tell their stories. So your subscription lets the algorithm know that what we're doing is fantastic and no commitment. It's free to do. And if you don't like what we're doing later on, you can always unsubscribe. And either way, we would love a like if you don't feel like subscribing at this time. What's, what's the use case?

A Yeah, the most use case is, is what, what I'll tell people is industrial inspection. So things, something big, um, like, like factories, like roads, like oil pipeline, something huge. And then they need to go inspect those, um, those locations, uh, equipments, oil pipeline. So we essentially do two things. We count things and we check things. Um, and not checking its inspection. So we, we were lucky enough like to, to, to get some big contracts from big companies, big engineering companies. Um, we were in, um, like airline food inspection. So you, you would have eaten food that our product inspected. Um, we were in one of the biggest, um, airline food inspection, I mean, airline food company, and we helped them Like upgrade, um, uh, modernize their, their inspection project. So yeah, so around 2005, six, um, that's, that's the peak. Um, I should have gave up at that time, but I didn't. So now I live with like, what could have happened?

AI assessment note: “the most use case is, is what, what I'll tell people is industrial inspection”

Q What was the moment that you realized you had to quit your job?

A In training school, I had my full-time job, um, doing software development. And then at night, um, Then I built training school. That is the craziest time. Um, and then the training school failed. Like, and that's another story that I, I learned basic accounting at the time. Money comes in and money goes out. And if comes in is not enough, you lose money. Right. So somehow I didn't know. Now I can joke about it. Um, lost money had to close, had to like basically pack up overnight. Um, and then the next morning I went talk to the landlord and say, Hey, I packed up so you can release me or not. If you don't release me from the lease, I'm going to, I'm, I'm going to declare bankruptcy. So please release me from, from the, from the lease. So that fail. And then I went back to full-time working for somebody at the time. Um, I thought I'm done. I thought I actually committed to myself. Like I'm not made out. I I'm not made out to be in the business world. Um, and that's okay. I've tried it and I'll just work for somebody. Um, that was actually a pretty good job. I found a pretty good employer supportive. Um, and I thought to myself, I'll just, I'll just work. And And, um, a year into that is when the age came back and I was like, I, I, I can't stay here forever. Um, and then I left to do consulting. So now, even though that was, that was like starting on my own, um, without a full-ti…

AI assessment note: “a year into that is when the age came back and I was like”