The Exchanges

Q Let's get to your backstory. You were a lawyer. Talk about what it was like Becoming a lawyer and starting as a lawyer and kind of what got you towards being an entrepreneur? Because I know you're a lawyer for a long time.

A Yeah, it's funny. I had to do a startup story about becoming an entrepreneur a few months ago, and it was the first time I realized that I'd actually always been an entrepreneur. I think it started with about five years old when I would just collect the neighborhood dogs and cats and tell my parents that they actually needed to be Taken care of by me at my like dog shelter, even though I was probably just stealing people's animals. Um, but like many people, I was kind of told from a young age to go to university and marry a lawyer or a doctor. So I decided to become a lawyer instead of marry one. And well, actually I did both. I met my husband at law school, had My first son in first year law school, two other sons, um, along the way, and started my articles when I was pregnant with my third son. So I, um, have always kind of taken on more than I could chew, which I think is a sign of an entrepreneur. Six months into my articles, I took a year off, raised my sons for another year, and then went back full time as a lawyer where I worked With the Ministry of Attorney General in Canada, in BC.

AI assessment note: “I decided to become a lawyer instead of marry one. And well, actually I did both.”

Q Was there any part of you that said, forget law, I should, I should just be in real estate? Like, at any point when you were, you felt this pressure to get rid of the real estate firm in order to go back to law?

A Hundred percent. So, I worked Really hard. The first year I did well. The second year I did very well. And real estate's not easy. People think it's easy and realtors are making tons of money. There's maybe 10% that are making good money and the rest are struggling. Couple of reasons why I didn't. I'd say the main reason is fear. I had a job with the province with a six-figure salary, with benefits, with holidays, like So we like to refer to that as the golden handcuffs. And it's very much a real thing. And anyone who's ever had a job like that agrees that they make the wrong decision and they choose comfort over freedom might be the best word. I was scared like that. That is for sure. The number one reason. The second reason is real estate. It's hard work. And as a lawyer, I was used to walking into a room telling people what I thought of the case and people respecting my time and not taking advantage of it. Real estate, after two years, I just felt I went into it to help people, to help people with my legal knowledge, to make sure they got the correct property, that they didn't buy something they shouldn't, and that just wasn't exactly what I expected. Like, I could have done it, but I found it was too superficial and too materialistic. And it was more just about money and, and not about the goodness or giving back. I have a degree in environmental studies. Like deep down, I …

AI assessment note: “Hundred percent. So, I worked Really hard.”

Q So what was the response when you decided to do that? How did your law firm, how did the ministry take it? When you decided to come back full time?

A At first it was great. I was diving into my files full time. My colleagues at the time were on the surface supportive, but when I got deeper into it a few months later, probably six months later, my boss retired. So my supportive boss, who was the one who had approved everything, retired and in an instant was gone. So At this time, I'm just working, minding my own business, trying to restart up a full-time practice from the part-time one I had been doing, and working long hours. My hours were good, my files were great, and I just, when I had a new female boss come on, found she was constantly checking up on me, and reviewing my hours, and sending me memos, and I would respond and say, hey, maybe we got off on the wrong foot. Like, Those rumors you heard were not true. I had approvals, and I've been here for 14 years. Like, she didn't know me. She was just hearing things from these emails, which I forgot to mention. When I asked for them to be investigated, they did not follow up on it. So, at the time, it was just kind of left, and no one was really defending me. So, I decided rather than make a big deal of it, sweep it under the rug, Put my nose down to the grindstone and get back to work like I had always done. The next eight or nine months were what I could describe as only a, a bullying atmosphere. I was, um, very good friends with all of the legal assistants and legal secr…

AI assessment note: “At first it was great. I was diving into my files full time.”

Q So what's something I haven't asked you yet that you wish I would ask?

A Well, just to tie everything, like you said, in a bow is bringing it back to following kind of your dreams. We all are born and as children have all these grandiose ideas. And if I look back, you know, my, my first thing that I was doing was Being an entrepreneur, I maybe stole people's animals and took care of them in my garage, but I did eventually give them back. But after that, you know, I, I remember one day, um, getting in a little bit of trouble cause I had gotten all the neighborhood kids together to go on bottle drives. And we were honest about the fact that we were going to buy candy with the money that we raised, but sticking to what your gut tells you and following your passion, because for the first eight or nine Years of my law career. I loved it. I was learning. I was excelling. I had amazing mentors. But as soon as your, your passion starts like calling to you, you have to just go into the fear. I was so scared. I was like, I have three sons. How am I going to pay my mortgage or put food on the table, take care of them when I had a six figure job. And even then I was still scared. And now after two years of running a startup company that I am loving, I'm still not making any money, but I'm happy every day, and I wake up and do what I love, and I know it's all gonna turn out right because I'm following my passion, and I'm giving. I'm giving while I live, so I thi…

AI assessment note: “bringing it back to following kind of your dreams.”

Q Through this all, you've mentioned multiple times that you were a single mother with three kids that were all teenagers. How do you manage not only a full-time job, but three kids and then have a part-time job with the full-time job and three kids? How do you do that without falling apart?

A It was hard. Yeah. This is why I know I was born to be an entrepreneur because every entrepreneur I've met is capable of Doing things that other people think are impossible. I've done that my whole life. Like first year law school, I had a full time job. I worked 40 hours a week. No one in my class had a job. I had a son in second year law school. I had a third son when I was doing my articles. One of the reasons I did the second real estate was just to earn enough to have a place to take care of my children. I had, I had some tenants I'd rented out. I'd renovated my whole house on my own. Like I ripped out all the walls. I'm just kind of one of those odd people that like to achieve, I guess. I'm an achiever, but I believe in bad events following bad events or good following good. And when my father died, it just was a series of bad events. One was four tenants that I'd had downstairs destroying my suite. And so as soon as I took on the real estate career with the law career, when I went back, I had to renovate my entire downstairs. So my kids have just kind of always ruled with it and helped me and been there. I coached them all soccer. So I have my provincial coaching license. Found every way to spend every second of time with them that I could. Like they helped me with real estate. I remember one year on Halloween, my son and his friends went around handing out my cards whil…

AI assessment note: “So my kids have just kind of always ruled with it and helped me”

Q I'm sorry you had to go through that. Some people thrive in a competitive environment. Some people thrive in a cooperative environment. My personal opinion is that no matter what your personality is, a cooperative environment is more mentally healthy for people. So do you think there was anything in that competitive environment that was harder for you, maybe as a female?

A Interestingly, when I did take the first leave, my supportive boss walked into my office and asked me if I was taking the leave. Because I felt discriminated against, and at the time I said no, like in my mind I was clearly going to take care of my dad, but after reflecting on him actually realizing that and saying it, and after the struggle that is grief and losing a parent, I realized there was some truth to what he was saying. One reason other than my father's sickness that I took the leave of absence was I had been put onto a very serious case that another colleague had Had given to me that was very difficult to say the least. It was involving a slip and fall at a jail, and the injuries were quite bad, and there was, obviously, the province was sued because there was potential foul play. When I was on that case, I was the only counsel, and from day one, when I read the facts, I asked for support. I told him I needed another legal counsel assigned. I needed more than one legal assistant. And in the two years prior to my leave, I lost my legal assistant on two occasions who knew the case inside out and backwards and had to train someone new. Finally got one legal assistant that was amazing and continues to be one of my best friends to this day. Um, and her and I worked our tails off on that case. When I was wanting to take the leave to take care of my dad, I pulled another co…

AI assessment note: “I realized there was some truth to what he was saying.”

Q You basically get persecuted by your coworkers and your bosses. You end up leaving the practice, the law practice. What happens next? What do you do and what brings you to the idea of starting a company, especially in environmental science?

A Like I said, I had a degree in environmental studies and just prior to this, I had met, um, my partner and which is more than I can say a blessing. Like, I think if I hadn't had this, it might've crumbled me for a little while because I had gone and I tried, all I'd been doing was like, Working so hard for so many years and then to have someone just pull you into an office and pull the tablecloth out from underneath you. If I hadn't had a supportive partner, it would have been difficult. And I had asked my new boss on one day when she'd come in and been like red in the face yelling at me. I said, can we just start this again? Let me take you for lunch. And so I'd had this time where I'd taken her for lunch. This is a couple of months before the end. During it, I remember her pointedly asking me about being a single mother, which I was at the time. I hadn't met him yet and asking me if I had a boyfriend and just being very judgmental about the fact that maybe I didn't deserve a boyfriend or maybe I couldn't be in a partnership. And it was a very odd lunch. Let me put it that way. I just remember leaving feeling like, wow, I'm being judged for being a single mom and basically being told I'm not good enough. So meeting him, he had a living wall company. And had recently figured out that plants actually don't clean the air. We think they do, but they don't. So he had found these ge…

AI assessment note: “So meeting him, he had a living wall company.”