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Jan 26, 2021 · 47m · we-live-to-build

Why Credit Cards Took 35 Years — And Crypto Won't

Justin Rankin · 31m spoken Sean Weisbrot · 12m spoken
0:00 / 0:00
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In this episode of the 'We Live to Build' podcast, host Sean Weisbrot and ARK.io Senior Brand Manager Justin Rankin explore the practical business utilities, underlying mechanics, and persistent usability hurdles of blockchain technology. They examine how human-centered design, smart contracts, and decentralized finance are driving enterprise adoption and reshaping the global economic landscape.

How this conversation actually went

Every chapter scored 0–10 on four independent dynamics. Hover any point for the reasoning behind the score. Sean holds 28.7% of the talking time here. How this is scored →

Sean as informed peer 4.7 Guest teaching 4.4 Guest disagreement 0.3 Sean pushing back 0.9
05100:0015:0030:0045:002:26–6:55 · Sean as informed peer 3/10 Justin Rankin's Background and ARK.io Overview Sean opens the episode by sharing his personal timeline entering crypto between 2011 and 2015. Justin collaboratively shares his background joining ARK.io and his perspective on building developer tools.6:56–15:19 · Sean as informed peer 1/10 Blockchain Fundamentals, Pros, Cons, and Adoption Curves Sean acts as a curious interviewer asking 101-level questions. Justin delivers extensive explanations on blockchain fundamentals, cross-border remittance fee structures, and the 35-year credit card adoption curve.15:19–21:18 · Sean as informed peer 7/10 Tackling Crypto Usability, Address Resolution, and Security Sean demonstrates domain knowledge from his startup Sidekick regarding public key lengths and wallet UX, bluntly calling 12-word seed phrases asinine. Justin pushes back constructively with the DNS/IP analogy and mathematical entropy statistics.21:18–28:14 · Sean as informed peer 5/10 Business Applications, Enterprise Challenges, and Tax Implications Justin explores enterprise adoption friction, loyalty program transferability, and crypto tax reporting hurdles. Sean contributes relevant industry metrics by citing Jack Dorsey and Square's 2018 Bitcoin revenue numbers.28:14–37:01 · Sean as informed peer 8/10 Understanding Cryptocurrencies, Bitcoin History, and Ethereum ICOs Sean takes command of the narrative, giving an in-depth breakdown of Satoshi Nakamoto's anonymity, the mechanics of Ethereum ICOs, and notable regulatory enforcement cases like Plus Token. Justin validates Sean's breakdown.37:02–43:32 · Sean as informed peer 2/10 Exploring Crypto Debit Cards, Lending, and NFTs Justin takes the educational lead, providing detailed descriptions of crypto debit card tiering, decentralized collateralized lending platforms, and NFT provenance tracking via CryptoKitties.43:32–47:24 · Sean as informed peer 7/10 Crypto Revenue Models, Consensus Mechanisms, and Conclusion Sean rapidly enumerates technical consensus algorithms (proof of work, stake, capacity) and monetization channels like staking and DeFi farming. Justin supplements with insights on small business mining in developing economies.2:26–6:55 · Guest teaching 1/10 Justin Rankin's Background and ARK.io Overview Sean opens the episode by sharing his personal timeline entering crypto between 2011 and 2015. Justin collaboratively shares his background joining ARK.io and his perspective on building developer tools.6:56–15:19 · Guest teaching 6/10 Blockchain Fundamentals, Pros, Cons, and Adoption Curves Sean acts as a curious interviewer asking 101-level questions. Justin delivers extensive explanations on blockchain fundamentals, cross-border remittance fee structures, and the 35-year credit card adoption curve.15:19–21:18 · Guest teaching 5/10 Tackling Crypto Usability, Address Resolution, and Security Sean demonstrates domain knowledge from his startup Sidekick regarding public key lengths and wallet UX, bluntly calling 12-word seed phrases asinine. Justin pushes back constructively with the DNS/IP analogy and mathematical entropy statistics.21:18–28:14 · Guest teaching 5/10 Business Applications, Enterprise Challenges, and Tax Implications Justin explores enterprise adoption friction, loyalty program transferability, and crypto tax reporting hurdles. Sean contributes relevant industry metrics by citing Jack Dorsey and Square's 2018 Bitcoin revenue numbers.28:14–37:01 · Guest teaching 4/10 Understanding Cryptocurrencies, Bitcoin History, and Ethereum ICOs Sean takes command of the narrative, giving an in-depth breakdown of Satoshi Nakamoto's anonymity, the mechanics of Ethereum ICOs, and notable regulatory enforcement cases like Plus Token. Justin validates Sean's breakdown.37:02–43:32 · Guest teaching 7/10 Exploring Crypto Debit Cards, Lending, and NFTs Justin takes the educational lead, providing detailed descriptions of crypto debit card tiering, decentralized collateralized lending platforms, and NFT provenance tracking via CryptoKitties.43:32–47:24 · Guest teaching 3/10 Crypto Revenue Models, Consensus Mechanisms, and Conclusion Sean rapidly enumerates technical consensus algorithms (proof of work, stake, capacity) and monetization channels like staking and DeFi farming. Justin supplements with insights on small business mining in developing economies.2:26–6:55 · Guest disagreement 0/10 Justin Rankin's Background and ARK.io Overview Sean opens the episode by sharing his personal timeline entering crypto between 2011 and 2015. Justin collaboratively shares his background joining ARK.io and his perspective on building developer tools.6:56–15:19 · Guest disagreement 0/10 Blockchain Fundamentals, Pros, Cons, and Adoption Curves Sean acts as a curious interviewer asking 101-level questions. Justin delivers extensive explanations on blockchain fundamentals, cross-border remittance fee structures, and the 35-year credit card adoption curve.15:19–21:18 · Guest disagreement 2/10 Tackling Crypto Usability, Address Resolution, and Security Sean demonstrates domain knowledge from his startup Sidekick regarding public key lengths and wallet UX, bluntly calling 12-word seed phrases asinine. Justin pushes back constructively with the DNS/IP analogy and mathematical entropy statistics.21:18–28:14 · Guest disagreement 0/10 Business Applications, Enterprise Challenges, and Tax Implications Justin explores enterprise adoption friction, loyalty program transferability, and crypto tax reporting hurdles. Sean contributes relevant industry metrics by citing Jack Dorsey and Square's 2018 Bitcoin revenue numbers.28:14–37:01 · Guest disagreement 0/10 Understanding Cryptocurrencies, Bitcoin History, and Ethereum ICOs Sean takes command of the narrative, giving an in-depth breakdown of Satoshi Nakamoto's anonymity, the mechanics of Ethereum ICOs, and notable regulatory enforcement cases like Plus Token. Justin validates Sean's breakdown.37:02–43:32 · Guest disagreement 0/10 Exploring Crypto Debit Cards, Lending, and NFTs Justin takes the educational lead, providing detailed descriptions of crypto debit card tiering, decentralized collateralized lending platforms, and NFT provenance tracking via CryptoKitties.43:32–47:24 · Guest disagreement 0/10 Crypto Revenue Models, Consensus Mechanisms, and Conclusion Sean rapidly enumerates technical consensus algorithms (proof of work, stake, capacity) and monetization channels like staking and DeFi farming. Justin supplements with insights on small business mining in developing economies.2:26–6:55 · Sean pushing back 0/10 Justin Rankin's Background and ARK.io Overview Sean opens the episode by sharing his personal timeline entering crypto between 2011 and 2015. Justin collaboratively shares his background joining ARK.io and his perspective on building developer tools.6:56–15:19 · Sean pushing back 0/10 Blockchain Fundamentals, Pros, Cons, and Adoption Curves Sean acts as a curious interviewer asking 101-level questions. Justin delivers extensive explanations on blockchain fundamentals, cross-border remittance fee structures, and the 35-year credit card adoption curve.15:19–21:18 · Sean pushing back 5/10 Tackling Crypto Usability, Address Resolution, and Security Sean demonstrates domain knowledge from his startup Sidekick regarding public key lengths and wallet UX, bluntly calling 12-word seed phrases asinine. Justin pushes back constructively with the DNS/IP analogy and mathematical entropy statistics.21:18–28:14 · Sean pushing back 1/10 Business Applications, Enterprise Challenges, and Tax Implications Justin explores enterprise adoption friction, loyalty program transferability, and crypto tax reporting hurdles. Sean contributes relevant industry metrics by citing Jack Dorsey and Square's 2018 Bitcoin revenue numbers.28:14–37:01 · Sean pushing back 0/10 Understanding Cryptocurrencies, Bitcoin History, and Ethereum ICOs Sean takes command of the narrative, giving an in-depth breakdown of Satoshi Nakamoto's anonymity, the mechanics of Ethereum ICOs, and notable regulatory enforcement cases like Plus Token. Justin validates Sean's breakdown.37:02–43:32 · Sean pushing back 0/10 Exploring Crypto Debit Cards, Lending, and NFTs Justin takes the educational lead, providing detailed descriptions of crypto debit card tiering, decentralized collateralized lending platforms, and NFT provenance tracking via CryptoKitties.43:32–47:24 · Sean pushing back 0/10 Crypto Revenue Models, Consensus Mechanisms, and Conclusion Sean rapidly enumerates technical consensus algorithms (proof of work, stake, capacity) and monetization channels like staking and DeFi farming. Justin supplements with insights on small business mining in developing economies.

speaking balance: gold is Sean, purple is the guest (3 minute bins)

0:00 · Sean 90.6% · guest 9.4%0:00 · Sean 90.6% · guest 9.4%3:00 · Sean 13.4% · guest 86.6%3:00 · Sean 13.4% · guest 86.6%6:00 · Sean 3% · guest 97%6:00 · Sean 3% · guest 97%9:00 · Sean 0% · guest 100%9:00 · Sean 0% · guest 100%12:00 · Sean 0% · guest 100%12:00 · Sean 0% · guest 100%15:00 · Sean 79.2% · guest 20.8%15:00 · Sean 79.2% · guest 20.8%18:00 · Sean 15.2% · guest 84.8%18:00 · Sean 15.2% · guest 84.8%21:00 · Sean 2.7% · guest 97.3%21:00 · Sean 2.7% · guest 97.3%24:00 · Sean 15.3% · guest 84.7%24:00 · Sean 15.3% · guest 84.7%27:00 · Sean 14.3% · guest 85.7%27:00 · Sean 14.3% · guest 85.7%30:00 · Sean 56.9% · guest 43.1%30:00 · Sean 56.9% · guest 43.1%33:00 · Sean 45.7% · guest 54.3%33:00 · Sean 45.7% · guest 54.3%36:00 · Sean 38.5% · guest 61.5%36:00 · Sean 38.5% · guest 61.5%39:00 · Sean 0% · guest 100%39:00 · Sean 0% · guest 100%42:00 · Sean 34.4% · guest 65.6%42:00 · Sean 34.4% · guest 65.6%45:00 · Sean 55.9% · guest 44.1%45:00 · Sean 55.9% · guest 44.1%
Sharpest disagreement ▶ 19:33 Justin defends 12-word seed phrases against host dismissal

Justin directly counters Sean's claim that mnemonic seed phrases are asinine, explaining why 12 readable words reduce human error compared to raw alphanumeric strings.

 Hardest push from Sean ▶ 19:23 Sean challenges seed phrase usability

Sean bluntly rejects Justin's proposal of 12-word passphrases, going out on a limb to label the system asinine because users cannot memorize them.

 Biggest teaching moment ▶ 13:00 Justin details historical credit card adoption curves

Justin educates the audience and host on why credit cards required 35 years to achieve majority adoption due to deeply ingrained psychological definitions of money.

 Sean holds their own ▶ 34:35 Sean synthesizes Ethereum token architecture and ICO market dynamics

Sean demonstrates deep industry mastery by clearly summarizing Ethereum's layer-1 utility and the subsequent wave of tokenized crowdfunding and fraud cases.
the scores for every segment, with the reasoning behind each
ChapterTopicSean as informed peerGuest teachingGuest disagreementSean pushing backWhy
Justin Rankin's Background and ARK.io Overview 3100 Sean opens the episode by sharing his personal timeline entering crypto between 2011 and 2015. Justin collaboratively shares his background joining ARK.io and his perspective on building developer tools.
Blockchain Fundamentals, Pros, Cons, and Adoption Curves 1600 Sean acts as a curious interviewer asking 101-level questions. Justin delivers extensive explanations on blockchain fundamentals, cross-border remittance fee structures, and the 35-year credit card adoption curve.
Tackling Crypto Usability, Address Resolution, and Security 7525 Sean demonstrates domain knowledge from his startup Sidekick regarding public key lengths and wallet UX, bluntly calling 12-word seed phrases asinine. Justin pushes back constructively with the DNS/IP analogy and mathematical entropy statistics.
Business Applications, Enterprise Challenges, and Tax Implications 5501 Justin explores enterprise adoption friction, loyalty program transferability, and crypto tax reporting hurdles. Sean contributes relevant industry metrics by citing Jack Dorsey and Square's 2018 Bitcoin revenue numbers.
Understanding Cryptocurrencies, Bitcoin History, and Ethereum ICOs 8400 Sean takes command of the narrative, giving an in-depth breakdown of Satoshi Nakamoto's anonymity, the mechanics of Ethereum ICOs, and notable regulatory enforcement cases like Plus Token. Justin validates Sean's breakdown.
Exploring Crypto Debit Cards, Lending, and NFTs 2700 Justin takes the educational lead, providing detailed descriptions of crypto debit card tiering, decentralized collateralized lending platforms, and NFT provenance tracking via CryptoKitties.
Crypto Revenue Models, Consensus Mechanisms, and Conclusion 7300 Sean rapidly enumerates technical consensus algorithms (proof of work, stake, capacity) and monetization channels like staking and DeFi farming. Justin supplements with insights on small business mining in developing economies.

Statements from this episode (9)

Opinion
Rankin: Blockchain user experience lags behind technological progress
“As the founders look back on the history of cryptocurrencies and blockchain technology, we've made a lot of technical progress, but the progress in terms of user experience for users, and most importantly, developers, hasn't really caught up to the technologic…”
Justin Rankin Jan 26, 2021 ▶ 3:24
Assertion Contradicted
Rankin: Traditional banking cannot settle million-dollar international transfers for three dollars
“I only paid three dollars to send a million dollars to another country, and you cannot do that with the current financial system. It's just not possible.”
Justin Rankin Jan 26, 2021 ▶ 10:59
Insight
Rankin: Changing concepts of money inherently slows cryptocurrency adoption
“So when you change the way money works, then it takes people a little bit longer to catch up in general, in my opinion, from what I've observed in articles and other things. So it makes sense that cryptocurrency can take longer than usual for people to adapt t…”
Justin Rankin Jan 26, 2021 ▶ 14:38
Disclosure
Weisbrot pays his entire workforce and legal counsel exclusively in Bitcoin
“I pay all of my Contractors, all of my employees, my lawyer, designers, everybody, I pay in Bitcoin.”
Sean Weisbrot Jan 26, 2021 ▶ 17:27
Prediction Not checkable as stated
Rankin: Mainstream users will soon not even see crypto public addresses
“I think that it's only a matter of time before people don't even know about public addresses. Private keys will need to stay secure, but there's a new method that's like a 12 word mnemonic passphrase that will replace the private key”
Justin Rankin Jan 26, 2021 ▶ 18:51
Opinion
Weisbrot: The 12-word crypto seed phrase system is asinine
“I have to go out on a limb and say, I think the 12 word system, while it is more secure, it is asinine, because who the hell is going to remember 12 words?”
Sean Weisbrot Jan 26, 2021 ▶ 19:23
Assertion Not checkable as stated
Rankin: Tax rules hinder crypto adoption because every transaction is taxable
“The way that taxes work for cryptocurrencies make it very arduous for businesses to work with cryptocurrencies because every time cryptocurrencies change hands, it's a taxable event. It must be recorded. Gains and losses must be calculated. The accounting syst…”
Justin Rankin Jan 26, 2021 ▶ 25:08
Prediction Not checkable as stated
Weisbrot: Bitcoin's Creator Would Probably Be Executed if Identified
“If their identity is discovered, they will probably be executed. For upending the financial system.”
Sean Weisbrot Jan 26, 2021 ▶ 31:35
Assertion Not checkable as stated
Rankin: Small businesses in unstable fiat economies are mining crypto
“There's a lot of small businesses that are mining cryptocurrency, especially in developing nations where fiat currencies are in jeopardy.”
Justin Rankin Jan 26, 2021 ▶ 44:35
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