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Sep 13, 2022 · 43m · we-live-to-build

He Called NFTs Sub-Optimal - Then Used One to Solve Inheritance

Michael Pearl · 33m spoken Sean Weisbrot · 6m spoken
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gold bands on the timeline = statements, start to end. Hover to read, click to jump. CC turns on captions

Kirobo COO Michael Pearl joins host Sean Weisbrot to discuss how Smart Transactions democratize decentralized asset management, non-custodial inheritance, and automated Web3 workflows for everyday cryptocurrency users.

How this conversation actually went

Every chapter scored 0–10 on four independent dynamics. Hover any point for the reasoning behind the score. Sean holds 15.3% of the talking time here. How this is scored →

Sean as informed peer 5.3 Guest teaching 3.7 Guest disagreement 1.3 Sean pushing back 2.9
05100:0015:0030:003:56–6:49 · Sean as informed peer 4/10 The Origin Story and Founding of Kirobo Sean establishes his early familiarity with crypto inheritance problems going back to 2016-2017. Michael narrates Kirobo's origin through its founders discovering loss vectors in balance sheets.6:58–11:58 · Sean as informed peer 6/10 Non-Custodial Architecture vs Centralized Custodial Risks Sean demonstrates strong domain expertise by clearly defining custodial versus non-custodial wallet mechanics for the listeners. Michael validates the explanation and builds on it with real-world failure cases.11:59–17:33 · Sean as informed peer 5/10 Decentralized Crypto Inheritance and NFT Death Certificates Sean questions how a decentralized system can reliably verify death without a human custodian. Michael reframes NFTs away from speculative art toward institutional credentials like state-issued death certificates.17:33–23:02 · Sean as informed peer 6/10 Navigating Inheritance Edge Cases and Third-Party Trust Sean drills down on difficult edge cases, including simultaneous deaths and bad-faith beneficiaries abusing undo mechanics. Michael concedes the early limitations of the tech while explaining on-chain fallback options.23:02–32:08 · Sean as informed peer 4/10 Drag-and-Drop Smart Transaction Builder and Composability Sean inquires about user experience barriers for non-technical users. Michael breaks down the composability layer and automated money Lego architecture that powers their transaction builder.32:08–34:45 · Sean as informed peer 5/10 Comprehensive Asset Management and Expanding Web3 Verticals Sean connects smart transactions to broader asset management and cross-chain composability. Michael agrees and discusses scaling into Web3 gaming ecosystems.34:46–42:05 · Sean as informed peer 7/10 Kirobo Business Model, Decentralized Activators, and Tokenomics Sean pushes hard on revenue mechanics and challenges why a native token is necessary instead of a standard SaaS subscription. Michael defends the token as an incentive and gas reimbursement engine for decentralized activators.3:56–6:49 · Guest teaching 3/10 The Origin Story and Founding of Kirobo Sean establishes his early familiarity with crypto inheritance problems going back to 2016-2017. Michael narrates Kirobo's origin through its founders discovering loss vectors in balance sheets.6:58–11:58 · Guest teaching 2/10 Non-Custodial Architecture vs Centralized Custodial Risks Sean demonstrates strong domain expertise by clearly defining custodial versus non-custodial wallet mechanics for the listeners. Michael validates the explanation and builds on it with real-world failure cases.11:59–17:33 · Guest teaching 6/10 Decentralized Crypto Inheritance and NFT Death Certificates Sean questions how a decentralized system can reliably verify death without a human custodian. Michael reframes NFTs away from speculative art toward institutional credentials like state-issued death certificates.17:33–23:02 · Guest teaching 4/10 Navigating Inheritance Edge Cases and Third-Party Trust Sean drills down on difficult edge cases, including simultaneous deaths and bad-faith beneficiaries abusing undo mechanics. Michael concedes the early limitations of the tech while explaining on-chain fallback options.23:02–32:08 · Guest teaching 5/10 Drag-and-Drop Smart Transaction Builder and Composability Sean inquires about user experience barriers for non-technical users. Michael breaks down the composability layer and automated money Lego architecture that powers their transaction builder.32:08–34:45 · Guest teaching 2/10 Comprehensive Asset Management and Expanding Web3 Verticals Sean connects smart transactions to broader asset management and cross-chain composability. Michael agrees and discusses scaling into Web3 gaming ecosystems.34:46–42:05 · Guest teaching 4/10 Kirobo Business Model, Decentralized Activators, and Tokenomics Sean pushes hard on revenue mechanics and challenges why a native token is necessary instead of a standard SaaS subscription. Michael defends the token as an incentive and gas reimbursement engine for decentralized activators.3:56–6:49 · Guest disagreement 1/10 The Origin Story and Founding of Kirobo Sean establishes his early familiarity with crypto inheritance problems going back to 2016-2017. Michael narrates Kirobo's origin through its founders discovering loss vectors in balance sheets.6:58–11:58 · Guest disagreement 1/10 Non-Custodial Architecture vs Centralized Custodial Risks Sean demonstrates strong domain expertise by clearly defining custodial versus non-custodial wallet mechanics for the listeners. Michael validates the explanation and builds on it with real-world failure cases.11:59–17:33 · Guest disagreement 2/10 Decentralized Crypto Inheritance and NFT Death Certificates Sean questions how a decentralized system can reliably verify death without a human custodian. Michael reframes NFTs away from speculative art toward institutional credentials like state-issued death certificates.17:33–23:02 · Guest disagreement 2/10 Navigating Inheritance Edge Cases and Third-Party Trust Sean drills down on difficult edge cases, including simultaneous deaths and bad-faith beneficiaries abusing undo mechanics. Michael concedes the early limitations of the tech while explaining on-chain fallback options.23:02–32:08 · Guest disagreement 1/10 Drag-and-Drop Smart Transaction Builder and Composability Sean inquires about user experience barriers for non-technical users. Michael breaks down the composability layer and automated money Lego architecture that powers their transaction builder.32:08–34:45 · Guest disagreement 0/10 Comprehensive Asset Management and Expanding Web3 Verticals Sean connects smart transactions to broader asset management and cross-chain composability. Michael agrees and discusses scaling into Web3 gaming ecosystems.34:46–42:05 · Guest disagreement 2/10 Kirobo Business Model, Decentralized Activators, and Tokenomics Sean pushes hard on revenue mechanics and challenges why a native token is necessary instead of a standard SaaS subscription. Michael defends the token as an incentive and gas reimbursement engine for decentralized activators.3:56–6:49 · Sean pushing back 1/10 The Origin Story and Founding of Kirobo Sean establishes his early familiarity with crypto inheritance problems going back to 2016-2017. Michael narrates Kirobo's origin through its founders discovering loss vectors in balance sheets.6:58–11:58 · Sean pushing back 2/10 Non-Custodial Architecture vs Centralized Custodial Risks Sean demonstrates strong domain expertise by clearly defining custodial versus non-custodial wallet mechanics for the listeners. Michael validates the explanation and builds on it with real-world failure cases.11:59–17:33 · Sean pushing back 3/10 Decentralized Crypto Inheritance and NFT Death Certificates Sean questions how a decentralized system can reliably verify death without a human custodian. Michael reframes NFTs away from speculative art toward institutional credentials like state-issued death certificates.17:33–23:02 · Sean pushing back 5/10 Navigating Inheritance Edge Cases and Third-Party Trust Sean drills down on difficult edge cases, including simultaneous deaths and bad-faith beneficiaries abusing undo mechanics. Michael concedes the early limitations of the tech while explaining on-chain fallback options.23:02–32:08 · Sean pushing back 2/10 Drag-and-Drop Smart Transaction Builder and Composability Sean inquires about user experience barriers for non-technical users. Michael breaks down the composability layer and automated money Lego architecture that powers their transaction builder.32:08–34:45 · Sean pushing back 1/10 Comprehensive Asset Management and Expanding Web3 Verticals Sean connects smart transactions to broader asset management and cross-chain composability. Michael agrees and discusses scaling into Web3 gaming ecosystems.34:46–42:05 · Sean pushing back 6/10 Kirobo Business Model, Decentralized Activators, and Tokenomics Sean pushes hard on revenue mechanics and challenges why a native token is necessary instead of a standard SaaS subscription. Michael defends the token as an incentive and gas reimbursement engine for decentralized activators.

speaking balance: gold is Sean, purple is the guest (3 minute bins)

0:00 · Sean 7.6% · guest 92.4%0:00 · Sean 7.6% · guest 92.4%3:00 · Sean 13.3% · guest 86.7%3:00 · Sean 13.3% · guest 86.7%6:00 · Sean 36.6% · guest 63.4%6:00 · Sean 36.6% · guest 63.4%9:00 · Sean 0.4% · guest 99.6%9:00 · Sean 0.4% · guest 99.6%12:00 · Sean 37.1% · guest 62.9%12:00 · Sean 37.1% · guest 62.9%15:00 · Sean 14.9% · guest 85.1%15:00 · Sean 14.9% · guest 85.1%18:00 · Sean 1.5% · guest 98.5%18:00 · Sean 1.5% · guest 98.5%21:00 · Sean 39.2% · guest 60.8%21:00 · Sean 39.2% · guest 60.8%24:00 · Sean 0% · guest 100%24:00 · Sean 0% · guest 100%27:00 · Sean 0% · guest 100%27:00 · Sean 0% · guest 100%30:00 · Sean 25.7% · guest 74.3%30:00 · Sean 25.7% · guest 74.3%33:00 · Sean 11% · guest 89%33:00 · Sean 11% · guest 89%36:00 · Sean 6.1% · guest 93.9%36:00 · Sean 6.1% · guest 93.9%39:00 · Sean 10.5% · guest 89.5%39:00 · Sean 10.5% · guest 89.5%42:00 · Sean 37.6% · guest 62.4%42:00 · Sean 37.6% · guest 62.4%
Sharpest disagreement ▶ 14:05 Dismissal of mainstream NFT hype

Michael bluntly tells the host and audience to forget conventional NFT concepts, calling profile picture projects suboptimal compared to real utility.

 Hardest push from Sean ▶ 38:11 Challenging the necessity of a token

Sean directly confronts Kirobo's business model, demanding to know why a native cryptocurrency token is required rather than a standard web2 SaaS subscription.

 Biggest teaching moment ▶ 15:20 Explaining state-issued NFT death certificates

Michael educates the host on how future smart transactions will bridge real-world death verification using government-minted NFT certificates mapped to social security numbers.

 Sean holds their own ▶ 6:58 Host articulates custodial risk dynamics

Sean demonstrates deep technical literacy by delivering a comprehensive breakdown of custodial vs non-custodial risk for the audience before evaluating the guest's architecture.
the scores for every segment, with the reasoning behind each
ChapterTopicSean as informed peerGuest teachingGuest disagreementSean pushing backWhy
The Origin Story and Founding of Kirobo 4311 Sean establishes his early familiarity with crypto inheritance problems going back to 2016-2017. Michael narrates Kirobo's origin through its founders discovering loss vectors in balance sheets.
Non-Custodial Architecture vs Centralized Custodial Risks 6212 Sean demonstrates strong domain expertise by clearly defining custodial versus non-custodial wallet mechanics for the listeners. Michael validates the explanation and builds on it with real-world failure cases.
Decentralized Crypto Inheritance and NFT Death Certificates 5623 Sean questions how a decentralized system can reliably verify death without a human custodian. Michael reframes NFTs away from speculative art toward institutional credentials like state-issued death certificates.
Navigating Inheritance Edge Cases and Third-Party Trust 6425 Sean drills down on difficult edge cases, including simultaneous deaths and bad-faith beneficiaries abusing undo mechanics. Michael concedes the early limitations of the tech while explaining on-chain fallback options.
Drag-and-Drop Smart Transaction Builder and Composability 4512 Sean inquires about user experience barriers for non-technical users. Michael breaks down the composability layer and automated money Lego architecture that powers their transaction builder.
Comprehensive Asset Management and Expanding Web3 Verticals 5201 Sean connects smart transactions to broader asset management and cross-chain composability. Michael agrees and discusses scaling into Web3 gaming ecosystems.
Kirobo Business Model, Decentralized Activators, and Tokenomics 7426 Sean pushes hard on revenue mechanics and challenges why a native token is necessary instead of a standard SaaS subscription. Michael defends the token as an incentive and gas reimbursement engine for decentralized activators.

Statements from this episode (8)

Opinion
Pearl: Smart contracts haven't evolved and limit protocols to single features
“This is the gateway to web three and smart contracts have done a very good job, but the problem with them is the fact that they haven't changed much since. More or less when they were invented. And this technology has a lot of benefits, but the problem is that…”
Michael Pearl Sep 13, 2022 ▶ 1:18
Assertion Not checkable as stated
Pearl: Building custom Web3 solutions costs $250,000 and takes four months
“Bottom line, it would cost you around 250,000 dollars and about four months of development. And then you would develop a one single solution.”
Michael Pearl Sep 13, 2022 ▶ 3:11
Disclosure
Pearl: Kirobo allows users to build on-chain logic in five minutes
“What we offer is to do that in basically five minutes.”
Michael Pearl Sep 13, 2022 ▶ 3:29
Assertion Supported
Pearl: Kirobo built decentralized tools for transaction undo, backup, and inheritance
“First of all, they found the solution and we managed to create an undo button that basically allows you to cancel transaction sent in error. A fully decentralized backup that allows you to back up not only your funds, but also your identity, because now in the…”
Michael Pearl Sep 13, 2022 ▶ 6:10
Assertion Supported
Pearl: Canadian authorities ordered crypto exchanges to freeze trucker assets
“So what did the Canadian authorities do? They instructed you know, the various exchanges like Coinbase, for instance to basically freeze the assets of the Canadians that had accounts there.”
Michael Pearl Sep 13, 2022 ▶ 10:33
Opinion
Pearl: Speculative JPEG NFTs like Bored Apes are a suboptimal application
“In my humble opinion, the applications of NFTs as bored apes and, you know, cool JPEGs that you would sell for a million dollars are not, are suboptimal, let's put it mildly, ok?”
Michael Pearl Sep 13, 2022 ▶ 15:30
Assertion Supported
Pearl: US states and Ivy Leagues are developing NFT diploma certificates
“I know that several companies are working with a few U.S. States, and obviously outside of the U.S. And with some you know, public organizations as well, like colleges and Ivy League universities on NFTing their diplomas, their certificates, and so on.”
Michael Pearl Sep 13, 2022 ▶ 15:56
Disclosure
Pearl: Kirobo prevents beneficiaries from altering deceased users' fund distributions
“The way that the system is designed right now is we want to give the deceased person, again, while he's alive, obviously, a hundred percent of control over what happens with his funds after he's gone. So with that respect, no, we will not give the, let's say t…”
Michael Pearl Sep 13, 2022 ▶ 21:35
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