Dec 22, 2022 · 48m · we-live-to-build
Builders Are the Ticket Before Interoperability Ever Gets Solved
0:00 / 0:00
▶ Watch on YouTube →
gold bands on the timeline = statements, start to end. Hover to read, click to jump. CC turns on captions
In this episode of We Live to Build, Sandstorm founder Steve McGarry joins host Sean Weisbrot to examine the practical realities of the metaverse, deconstructing interoperability myths and highlighting how 3D builders, digital asset ownership, and hybrid architectures drive enterprise adoption.
How this conversation actually went
Every chapter scored 0–10 on four independent dynamics. Hover any point for the reasoning behind the score. Sean holds 24.5% of the talking time here. How this is scored →
Sean as informed peer 5.4 Guest teaching 4.9 Guest disagreement 1.9 Sean pushing back 4.1
speaking balance: gold is Sean, purple is the guest (3 minute bins)
Sharpest disagreement ▶ 27:20 Steve challenges Sean's skepticism on interoperability
Steve explicitly challenges Sean's assertion that interoperability is technically impossible, comparing Sean's skepticism to early critics who failed to foresee video streaming on the 1990s internet.
Hardest push from Sean ▶ 18:24 Sean calls interoperability claims a pipe dreamSean bluntly dismisses crypto-enthusiast claims about cross-world mobility as an impossible fantasy akin to past speculative ICO and NFT hype cycles.
Biggest teaching moment ▶ 25:06 Steve breaks down cross-chain bridging mechanics and honeypotsSteve educates Sean on the technical realities of token wrapping, smart contract lockups, and why multi-million-dollar bridge hacks occur across decentralized networks.
Sean holds their own ▶ 23:38 Sean outlines multi-chain fragmentation barriersSean demonstrates deep technical and commercial knowledge by detailing the complex hurdles of asset transcoding, commercial permissions, and platform transference fees.
the scores for every segment, with the reasoning behind each
| Chapter | Topic | Sean as informed peer | Guest teaching | Guest disagreement | Sean pushing back | Why |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| Why Web2 Brands Are Entering the Metaverse | 3 | 3 | 1 | 1 | Sean opens with a baseline question asking why Web2 brands are spending millions to establish metaverse presences. Steve provides standard industry context regarding pandemic acceleration, Gen Z digital self-expression, and brand positioning in Roblox and Minecraft. | |
| Defining the Metaverse and Digital Asset Ownership | 4 | 5 | 2 | 3 | Sean draws on his personal Quest II VR experience to question whether current metaverse spending is merely premature PR hype. Steve reframes the landscape across a spectrum of centralized gaming giants versus decentralized ecosystems granting real player equity and digital asset ownership. | |
| The Myth of Seamless Metaverse Interoperability | 6 | 4 | 1 | 5 | Sean challenges popular Ready Player One narratives, arguing that corporate incentives and separate authentication systems preclude seamless cross-world logins. Steve validates Sean's critique using insider details from the OMA3 consortium meeting of virtual world founders. | |
| Builders as the Bridge Across Siloed Worlds | 7 | 4 | 2 | 5 | Sean strongly dismisses hype-driven interoperability claims by pointing out insurmountable technical friction between game engines like Unity and Unreal and mismatched file formats. Steve agrees on the format barriers and introduces Sandstorm's solution of using human builders to recreate brand assets across walled gardens. | |
| Cross-Chain Bridging and Invisible Protocol Infrastructure | 7 | 6 | 3 | 6 | Sean probes the deep technical and economic hurdles of multi-chain asset recognition and transfer fees across thousands of blockchains. Steve details bridging mechanics and smart contract honeypot vulnerabilities while defending the long-term thesis that protocol infrastructure will eventually fade invisibly into the backend. | |
| The Case for Ownership Over Corporate Data Extraction | 5 | 6 | 2 | 4 | Sean prompts Steve to play devil's advocate and articulate why the metaverse might not need blockchain technology at all. Steve details the frictionless efficiency of Web2 corporate surveillance before making the counter-case for self-custody, citing historical internet adoption curves from 1999. | |
| Hybrid Web2/Web3 Architectures and Scalable Royalties | 6 | 6 | 2 | 5 | Sean questions blockchain throughput limitations (TPS) and suggests future AI or quantum architectures could replace it. Steve explains how hybrid architectures decouple real-time Web2 gameplay from asynchronous on-chain batch settlement and creator royalty distribution. |
Statements from this episode (11)
McGarry: Gen Z and Gen Alpha spend 8-9 hours daily on virtual platforms
“We know Gen Z and Gen Alpha are spending 8:09 hours a day with their friends on all these different platforms”
McGarry: Metaverse will fragment into specialized virtual worlds
“I see this as breaking into a bunch of worlds here. There's going to be worlds for work. There's going to be worlds for commerce. There's going to be worlds for mental health. There's going to be worlds for gaming. There's going to be worlds for events and soc…”
McGarry: Metaverse will operate as siloed apps, not seamless worlds
“The buzzword interoperability is one that people throw around a lot in the web three space. And the intention there is what you're describing of people will be able to fluidly move between these worlds. But ultimately I think that this is going to be more of l…”
Weisbrot: Metaverse interoperability is highly unlikely due to code and capitalism
“If you actually understand how code is created and you understand how capitalism works, the chance of interoperability between these worlds is highly unlikely.”
McGarry: Human 3D builders are the true bridge for brand metaverse assets
“And my take on this with Sandstorm is I think the builders themselves are the ticket. If Nike comes to Sandstorm and says, I need a shoe, a builder is gonna be able to deploy that across five different virtual worlds, five different formats, and allow them to,…”
McGarry: Blockchain bridging will operate invisibly in the background by 2027
“In five years from now, this is all gonna be in the background. Like, this is just going to be something that operates in the background, just like a database.”
McGarry: Dozen-plus cross-chain bridging projects suffered major honeypot hacks
“All you have to do is search on Google interoperability hacks, and you will see hacks of hundreds of millions of dollars, where what I mentioned earlier with the wrap in the smart contract, hackers just attack that contract, 24, seven all day, because they say…”
McGarry: 200 to 300 million people have used crypto wallets
“And to give everybody context, you have roughly between what's estimated 200 to three hundred million people have participated in crypto. They have a crypto wallet of some kind, and they've tinkered with it.”
McGarry: Over 90% of blockchains fail during current experimental stage
“I think it's very important to know we're in an experimental stage where 90 plus percent of these blockchains fail.”