The Exchanges

Q Yep. Okay. And what does that mean for an agency back then to have a net income of twenty five million? I just have no context. Was it good, bad, ugly?

A It's, it's, it's great. You just don't get any of it. Um, when you're a growing business and you're self-funded, um, you get, you get the taxes on it. You just often don't get to take it home because you need that working capital in order to hire more people. Agencies are a really shitty business model. Um, it's the easiest business to get into and the hardest business to get out of because once you're in it, And once you have that much infrastructure, we had ten million dollars a month worth of payroll. Think of what it takes to keep that beast alive. Every month, every year, the chains reset, and you have to start all over again, pitching new clients. You're going to lose some, some clients. You're going to gain some clients, but you constantly have to feed that beast.

AI assessment note: “It's, it's, it's great. You just don't get any of it.”

Q I see. Interesting. Okay. And then, and then, so walk us through, let's sort of fast forward today, because there's a lot of stuff. You're testing a ton during these next 10 years. Testing new ideas, throwing stuff against the wall. Let's, let's fast forward now to like, what's stuck. So what, what are the brands under startups.com today?

A Okay, so startups.com, um, as I mentioned, just kind of give it context, uh, carries people from the idea stage all the way through launch. So there's a lot of part, uh, points people get stuck. Um, so right now we've got startups.com, but within that we've got, uh, bizplan.com, which is a business planning tool, as you might imagine. We've got fundable.com, which allows people to, uh, raise capital. We've got, um, Uh, launchrock.com, which allows people to kind of acquire their early customers. We've got clarity.fm, which is a community of over 20,000 mentors that we use to connect people and, uh, kind of help them through the process and coach them. And we've got virtual.com, which allows people to get an extra pair of hands on their team for a few hundred dollars to get all the stuff done that they can't possibly get done.

AI assessment note: “within that we've got, uh, bizplan.com... fundable.com... launchrock.com”

Q All right. So we will, we won't bury the lead here. So talk about just sort of give the bullet point of where you're at today. So startups.com. What's it doing?

A Uh, right, so, you know, we're helping startups from the, uh, idea stage all the way through the growth stage, and, uh, having built a ton of startups, and we'll get into this, and, you know, spend an enormous amount of time with founders over the years, uh, we've learned that a lot of the mistakes entrepreneurs make, uh, a lot of the challenges they were into are all the same. You know, they could start all different businesses, but more or less, they kind of run into the same challenges, and so we basically just build a platform that That took them through all those challenges with a combination of, uh, education to kind of learn about all this stuff that you wouldn't know about. Uh, community where we've got 20,000 mentors that kind of help you answer all the questions you couldn't possibly answer yourself. And then tools. You have things like business planning tools, fundraising tools, et cetera, uh, that help you get over those major hurdles. We've got a little over a million companies in the platform. Uh, we're bootstrapped started in 2012. Uh, it's an eight figure business with a little over 200 employees.

AI assessment note: “We've got a little over a million companies in the platform... eight figure business”

Q Which firm was he with? WME, CAA, which, which talent agency?

A Uh, he was at the time with Abrams Artist Agency. I don't know who he's with now. Yep. Um, and, uh, it was, again, it was, what was going to become reality television. And, uh, so I was like, listen, man, why don't you just look for all those people, uh, online? You know, why bother trying to like find them, you know, through phone calls and stuff like that? And he said, like, how are we going to do that? And I said, well, there's this new thing coming up called MySpace, and a lot of people are kind of trying to be famous on it, and I think we could kind of tag into that and build it up. So we ended up building, uh, GotCast to do casting for television, uh, As one of the many companies we were kind of incubating and spinning out.

AI assessment note: “he was at the time with Abrams Artist Agency.”

Q All right. So we will, we won't bury the lead here. So talk about just sort of give the bullet point of where you're at today. So startups.com. What's it doing?

A Uh, right, so, you know, we're helping startups from the, uh, idea stage all the way through the growth stage, and, uh, having built a ton of startups, and we'll get into this, and, you know, spend an enormous amount of time with founders over the years, uh, we've learned that a lot of the mistakes entrepreneurs make, uh, a lot of the challenges they were into are all the same. You know, they could start all different businesses, but more or less, they kind of run into the same challenges, and so we basically just build a platform that That took them through all those challenges with a combination of, uh, education to kind of learn about all this stuff that you wouldn't know about. Uh, community where we've got 20,000 mentors that kind of help you answer all the questions you couldn't possibly answer yourself. And then tools. You have things like business planning tools, fundraising tools, et cetera, uh, that help you get over those major hurdles. We've got a little over a million companies in the platform. Uh, we're bootstrapped started in 2012. Uh, it's an eight figure business with a little over 200 employees.

AI assessment note: “it's an eight figure business with a little over 200 employees.”

Q Yep. Okay. And what does that mean for an agency back then to have a net income of twenty five million? I just have no context. Was it good, bad, ugly?

A It's, it's, it's great. You just don't get any of it. Um, when you're a growing business and you're self-funded, um, you get, you get the taxes on it. You just often don't get to take it home because you need that working capital in order to hire more people. Agencies are a really shitty business model. Um, it's the easiest business to get into and the hardest business to get out of because once you're in it, And once you have that much infrastructure, we had ten million dollars a month worth of payroll. Think of what it takes to keep that beast alive. Every month, every year, the chains reset, and you have to start all over again, pitching new clients. You're going to lose some, some clients. You're going to gain some clients, but you constantly have to feed that beast.

AI assessment note: “It's, it's, it's great. You just don't get any of it.”

Q I see. Interesting. Okay. And then, and then, so walk us through, let's sort of fast forward today, because there's a lot of stuff. You're testing a ton during these next 10 years. Testing new ideas, throwing stuff against the wall. Let's, let's fast forward now to like, what's stuck. So what, what are the brands under startups.com today?

A Okay, so startups.com, um, as I mentioned, just kind of give it context, uh, carries people from the idea stage all the way through launch. So there's a lot of part, uh, points people get stuck. Um, so right now we've got startups.com, but within that we've got, uh, bizplan.com, which is a business planning tool, as you might imagine. We've got fundable.com, which allows people to, uh, raise capital. We've got, um, Uh, launchrock.com, which allows people to kind of acquire their early customers. We've got clarity.fm, which is a community of over 20,000 mentors that we use to connect people and, uh, kind of help them through the process and coach them. And we've got virtual.com, which allows people to get an extra pair of hands on their team for a few hundred dollars to get all the stuff done that they can't possibly get done.

AI assessment note: “within that we've got, uh, bizplan.com, which is a business planning tool”

Q Which firm was he with? WME, CAA, which, which talent agency?

A Uh, he was at the time with Abrams Artist Agency. I don't know who he's with now. Yep. Um, and, uh, it was, again, it was, what was going to become reality television. And, uh, so I was like, listen, man, why don't you just look for all those people, uh, online? You know, why bother trying to like find them, you know, through phone calls and stuff like that? And he said, like, how are we going to do that? And I said, well, there's this new thing coming up called MySpace, and a lot of people are kind of trying to be famous on it, and I think we could kind of tag into that and build it up. So we ended up building, uh, GotCast to do casting for television, uh, As one of the many companies we were kind of incubating and spinning out.

AI assessment note: “he was at the time with Abrams Artist Agency”

Q But so I guess what I'm asking is, are you happy with the amount of like thousands hitting fundable relative to the call at 102 103 hundred that actually do start a fundraise and a small portion of those that actually complete the fundraise?

A Um, no, because the problem that I have is I don't think the problem is helping people who need to raise a million dollars or two million dollars. I think the problem is way more micro than that. I'm trying to figure out, you know, what are the solutions to help somebody raise 25,000 dollars or 50,000 dollars, kind of that broader tier of, of startup capital that could help more people. Now, a lot of those people will then graduate to raise more capital, and that's wonderful. Um, But I still have yet to see this kind of mass market solution. Crowdfunding was supposed to be it, you know, to start. There's just some parts of the mechanics of it that just don't quite work.

AI assessment note: “Um, no, because the problem that I have is I don't think”

Q So take us forward that. Yeah. Take us forward to the next year. 1995. What happened in 95? What'd you get? Did you build the team at all? Were you on the same spot? How many, how much in bookings did you hit?

A Um, not much. Uh, we're still doing ones of thousands, maybe tens of thousands at most, but we're starting to get access to bigger clients. Um, some of our bigger clients around that time were like Chase Bank, um, uh, MasterCard, Intel, and when people hear those names, like, wow, those must be huge contracts. Nope. Still selling projects for ones of thousands of dollars. I had no idea how pricing works. Right. I just didn't understand. I wasn't an agency guy. I didn't have access to an agency guy. So I'm selling this stuff so I could get these guys on my, my resume, my portfolio, but no idea what I should be charging. At the same time, I don't really know what I should be paying my staff and they're all students. So they don't kind of have to work for anything, but there was no big upside back then of, Hey, maybe I'll work for equity and make money. Back then people didn't understand equity. They were just like, you're, they're going to pay me or you're not.

AI assessment note: “we're still doing ones of thousands, maybe tens of thousands at most”

Q Yeah. Okay. Okay. So take this forward. So what, you know, Eli Lilly was a massive win for you guys. Did it pan out like you expected or did things blow up and crash and burn?

A It went amazing. In fact, I think there's still a client, which is hard to believe, but you got to understand like at a time like that in the professional services business that we are in, there's no way to fake it. Like there's no way to get like, you know, VC money to like scale professional services company. Some folks tried. Um, There's, you just, you just have to do the work and send the billings and hope to collect, right? And so to scale a company that fast, um, was very unusual. Um, and for me, you know, I'm, as we're moving into this, I'm 25, 26, 27 myself. Um, I have no sense for how big of an accomplishment this is, right? This is just all happening so fast. And I had no other experience. So in my mind, the only professional experience I had in my twenties as an adult, um, was this rocket ship. And I think the reason I say that is because often early in our careers, when we do really well, it's really hard to calibrate and understand how valuable or how fortunate being that young in that successful is. I only understood about half of it. Half of me was like, well, Hey, I was a poor kid who came into this. I'd never expected this to happen. And the other half of me was like, well, maybe this is just how good I am. And this is how all my stuff's going to happen. And again, that's, that's cocky and arrogant. I just didn't know any better. And, and, uh, I think that happ…

AI assessment note: “It went amazing. In fact, I think there's still a client”

Q And do you have a sort of formula you like to follow? Was it, was it, you know, do you never do cash? It's always stock or you never do stock. It's always cash or it's always a blend or like, what is your thesis for like the perfect deal?

A Uh, I would, I would love to say it was consistent, but in some of those deals, we paid all cash. In some of those deals, we did a hybrid. Um, and I would say this, um, when you're paying cash, you feel so beat up because, you know, it's hitting your cash position and you feel like, man, if I could just pay some equity, it would just, you know, really, uh, settle some of the bruising right now. But there is something wonderful about paying cash and, and knowing that you didn't have any residual to it. You know, uh, I can't go into all the details, you know, which companies take the cash versus stock. But a couple of them we paid all cash for. And, uh, and while it hurt us at the time, looking back, I'm so glad I did it because you also don't want to be making essentially, uh, rent payments back to some company that you bought five years ago and be making those payments for the rest of your life.

AI assessment note: “I would love to say it was consistent, but in some of those deals, we paid all cash.”

Q But so I guess what I'm asking is, are you happy with the amount of like thousands hitting fundable relative to the call at 102 103 hundred that actually do start a fundraise and a small portion of those that actually complete the fundraise?

A Um, no, because the problem that I have is I don't think the problem is helping people who need to raise a million dollars or two million dollars. I think the problem is way more micro than that. I'm trying to figure out, you know, what are the solutions to help somebody raise 25,000 dollars or 50,000 dollars, kind of that broader tier of, of startup capital that could help more people. Now, a lot of those people will then graduate to raise more capital, and that's wonderful. Um, But I still have yet to see this kind of mass market solution. Crowdfunding was supposed to be it, you know, to start. There's just some parts of the mechanics of it that just don't quite work.

AI assessment note: “Um, no, because the problem that I have is I don't think the problem”

Q So take us forward that. Yeah. Take us forward to the next year. 1995. What happened in 95? What'd you get? Did you build the team at all? Were you on the same spot? How many, how much in bookings did you hit?

A Um, not much. Uh, we're still doing ones of thousands, maybe tens of thousands at most, but we're starting to get access to bigger clients. Um, some of our bigger clients around that time were like Chase Bank, um, uh, MasterCard, Intel, and when people hear those names, like, wow, those must be huge contracts. Nope. Still selling projects for ones of thousands of dollars. I had no idea how pricing works. Right. I just didn't understand. I wasn't an agency guy. I didn't have access to an agency guy. So I'm selling this stuff so I could get these guys on my, my resume, my portfolio, but no idea what I should be charging. At the same time, I don't really know what I should be paying my staff and they're all students. So they don't kind of have to work for anything, but there was no big upside back then of, Hey, maybe I'll work for equity and make money. Back then people didn't understand equity. They were just like, you're, they're going to pay me or you're not.

AI assessment note: “we're still doing ones of thousands, maybe tens of thousands at most”

Q Yeah. Okay. Okay. So take this forward. So what, you know, Eli Lilly was a massive win for you guys. Did it pan out like you expected or did things blow up and crash and burn?

A It went amazing. In fact, I think there's still a client, which is hard to believe, but you got to understand like at a time like that in the professional services business that we are in, there's no way to fake it. Like there's no way to get like, you know, VC money to like scale professional services company. Some folks tried. Um, There's, you just, you just have to do the work and send the billings and hope to collect, right? And so to scale a company that fast, um, was very unusual. Um, and for me, you know, I'm, as we're moving into this, I'm 25, 26, 27 myself. Um, I have no sense for how big of an accomplishment this is, right? This is just all happening so fast. And I had no other experience. So in my mind, the only professional experience I had in my twenties as an adult, um, was this rocket ship. And I think the reason I say that is because often early in our careers, when we do really well, it's really hard to calibrate and understand how valuable or how fortunate being that young in that successful is. I only understood about half of it. Half of me was like, well, Hey, I was a poor kid who came into this. I'd never expected this to happen. And the other half of me was like, well, maybe this is just how good I am. And this is how all my stuff's going to happen. And again, that's, that's cocky and arrogant. I just didn't know any better. And, and, uh, I think that happ…

AI assessment note: “It went amazing. In fact, I think there's still a client”

Q And do you have a sort of formula you like to follow? Was it, was it, you know, do you never do cash? It's always stock or you never do stock. It's always cash or it's always a blend or like, what is your thesis for like the perfect deal?

A Uh, I would, I would love to say it was consistent, but in some of those deals, we paid all cash. In some of those deals, we did a hybrid. Um, and I would say this, um, when you're paying cash, you feel so beat up because, you know, it's hitting your cash position and you feel like, man, if I could just pay some equity, it would just, you know, really, uh, settle some of the bruising right now. But there is something wonderful about paying cash and, and knowing that you didn't have any residual to it. You know, uh, I can't go into all the details, you know, which companies take the cash versus stock. But a couple of them we paid all cash for. And, uh, and while it hurt us at the time, looking back, I'm so glad I did it because you also don't want to be making essentially, uh, rent payments back to some company that you bought five years ago and be making those payments for the rest of your life.

AI assessment note: “I would love to say it was consistent, but in some of those deals”

Q believe, balance sheet, which juices up your headcount costs by about 30%. VCs at a board meeting would say, you should, like, make these moves, especially if it's going to increase your valuation on the round, and if the round falls through, you're cooked. Would Maren have made the decision to jack up her fixed expenses so much if she felt that next VC round wasn't actually going to happen?

A Just, uh, uh, Uh, in all due respect, none of that's true. Uh, it was, but by the way, it was, it was the popular narrative that was kind of like, uh, pushed out there that it was all about the hard costs, et cetera. Um, let me give that a little more detail because it's one of those things where like, uh, when Zirtual like kind of went under overnight, they were like killing it last week and they went under the next week. Nobody knew what the hell happened. So people just started guessing at what some of the problems were. At the end of the day, the problem was, uh, The money didn't get wired to their account. Like, uh, I would say there was a separate issue that had nothing to do with them shutting down. That was their economics were broken. Incidentally, um, it, it didn't have to do with W two versus 10 99. That's actually a super easy problem to solve. Um, the, the reason their economics were broken was because there was nobody at the wheel paying attention to utilization. And I'll give you a really, really simple, um, calculation. Remember, I came from professional services, so I understood this very well.

AI assessment note: “in all due respect, none of that's true.”

Q So take me forward to that first dollar. Where do you make your first dollar? You got a sense of what it was like to make your own money to sell something.

A In my family, I've got a very big family, about 80 cousins. Um, no one's ever been to college. Everyone just works kind of hand to mouth. And one of the things is the day you graduate high school, um, you're on your own. There's no, like, hey, hang out at home. There's no, we're putting you through college, because there is no college. And, uh, so when I turned 17, or around the time I was 17 when I graduated, uh, I moved out of the house, almost like the day I graduated. I got two full-time jobs. Uh, during the day, I was a telemarketer, uh, selling mainframe computers. This is circa 92. Uh, at night, I made delicious sandwiches at this place called D'Angelo's, which was like a subway at the time. And so I worked from, from eight to five, and then five to one every day. And I had so much energy back then, like, people now are like, oh my god, two full-time jobs. Well, it's like, who cares? I got all this extra time, right? I'm otherwise sleeping. Uh, but, but at the end of my senior year, I had this other kind of bizarre moment. Uh, and all these things are going to tie together. Um, at the end of my senior year in high school, all my friends at the lunch table are sitting around talking about, uh, where they're going to go to college. And this is such a loser moment. It occurs to me at that time that I haven't even applied for college. Like I didn't even know that was an opti…

AI assessment note: “during the day, I was a telemarketer... at night, I made delicious sandwiches”

Q How old were you at this point? You were born in 1975, I believe, so you were how old?

A Uh, so, uh, let's see. I would have been, yeah, roughly 19, give or take. Uh, so, and you know, it's important to know because a lot of times when you hear about entrepreneurs building something and kind of hear their backstory, how they built something, you really don't understand where their head was at even going into it. You know, a lot of what you'll hear is cause I've talked to a million founders. Uh, I had this crappy job or I had this opportunity and I saw somebody else and it inspired me, et cetera. I came into it just backward. Uh, the only reason I understood anything about technology was because when I was, I'm trying to think back, probably nine or 10 years old, uh, I had one of the first computers, a Commodore 64 computer, and I'm a huge video gamer, so I loved, loved, loved trading video games.

AI assessment note: “I would have been, yeah, roughly 19, give or take.”

Q How old were you at this point? You were born in 1975, I believe, so you were how old?

A Uh, so, uh, let's see. I would have been, yeah, roughly 19, give or take. Uh, so, and you know, it's important to know because a lot of times when you hear about entrepreneurs building something and kind of hear their backstory, how they built something, you really don't understand where their head was at even going into it. You know, a lot of what you'll hear is cause I've talked to a million founders. Uh, I had this crappy job or I had this opportunity and I saw somebody else and it inspired me, et cetera. I came into it just backward. Uh, the only reason I understood anything about technology was because when I was, I'm trying to think back, probably nine or 10 years old, uh, I had one of the first computers, a Commodore 64 computer, and I'm a huge video gamer, so I loved, loved, loved trading video games.

AI assessment note: “I would have been, yeah, roughly 19, give or take.”

Q believe, balance sheet, which juices up your headcount costs by about 30%. VCs at a board meeting would say, you should, like, make these moves, especially if it's going to increase your valuation on the round, and if the round falls through, you're cooked. Would Maren have made the decision to jack up her fixed expenses so much if she felt that next VC round wasn't actually going to happen?

A Just, uh, uh, Uh, in all due respect, none of that's true. Uh, it was, but by the way, it was, it was the popular narrative that was kind of like, uh, pushed out there that it was all about the hard costs, et cetera. Um, let me give that a little more detail because it's one of those things where like, uh, when Zirtual like kind of went under overnight, they were like killing it last week and they went under the next week. Nobody knew what the hell happened. So people just started guessing at what some of the problems were. At the end of the day, the problem was, uh, The money didn't get wired to their account. Like, uh, I would say there was a separate issue that had nothing to do with them shutting down. That was their economics were broken. Incidentally, um, it, it didn't have to do with W two versus 10 99. That's actually a super easy problem to solve. Um, the, the reason their economics were broken was because there was nobody at the wheel paying attention to utilization. And I'll give you a really, really simple, um, calculation. Remember, I came from professional services, so I understood this very well.

AI assessment note: “in all due respect, none of that's true.”

Q for fences, hit home runs. So you had a bit of a cash event, you know, event back in 1997 when obviously Blaine came in and bought for a million bucks. I assume you took some of that off the table, but it sounds like this potentially, this sale to Stan Snyder was also a cash event for you. Can you explain how that worked to the extent you can?

A Uh, I can't, unfortunately. Uh, that's all sealed. Um, but, but let me give you the insight that I can give you. Um, number one, what, what gave me incentive from that point on wasn't having some cash. Uh, I know a lot of people believe that. Um, but I, I think there's, there's a lot missing that a lot of folks don't understand. Um, there's two versions of having cash. One version is having enough that you feel safe. If, if, if shit hits the fan, you can absorb that. Right. And I think, uh, that's not nearly as much money as people think it is, but it's, it's helpful to have. The second is the kind of money where you can just place bets and be okay if you lose. Very few people ever have that much, that kind of cash. Um, my incentives weren't coming, uh, from having some money that I could place bets and lose from. My incentive was coming in a totally different place. I felt like this was an awesome outcome. I was really proud of what we built, and I felt like, unless I could do it again, that I was a one-time hit, that I was a fraud, that I just happened to be lucky, I was in the right place at the right time, and, uh, and I have to do it again. This is a completely unwarranted, idiotic feeling, That most founders have, uh, in my experience, and I, and I was certainly one of them. And so my passion, sorry, uh, my passion to go want to do more things had nothing to do with havin…

AI assessment note: “I can't, unfortunately. Uh, that's all sealed. Um, but, but let me give you”

Q for fences, hit home runs. So you had a bit of a cash event, you know, event back in 1997 when obviously Blaine came in and bought for a million bucks. I assume you took some of that off the table, but it sounds like this potentially, this sale to Stan Snyder was also a cash event for you. Can you explain how that worked to the extent you can?

A Uh, I can't, unfortunately. Uh, that's all sealed. Um, but, but let me give you the insight that I can give you. Um, number one, what, what gave me incentive from that point on wasn't having some cash. Uh, I know a lot of people believe that. Um, but I, I think there's, there's a lot missing that a lot of folks don't understand. Um, there's two versions of having cash. One version is having enough that you feel safe. If, if, if shit hits the fan, you can absorb that. Right. And I think, uh, that's not nearly as much money as people think it is, but it's, it's helpful to have. The second is the kind of money where you can just place bets and be okay if you lose. Very few people ever have that much, that kind of cash. Um, my incentives weren't coming, uh, from having some money that I could place bets and lose from. My incentive was coming in a totally different place. I felt like this was an awesome outcome. I was really proud of what we built, and I felt like, unless I could do it again, that I was a one-time hit, that I was a fraud, that I just happened to be lucky, I was in the right place at the right time, and, uh, and I have to do it again. This is a completely unwarranted, idiotic feeling, That most founders have, uh, in my experience, and I, and I was certainly one of them. And so my passion, sorry, uh, my passion to go want to do more things had nothing to do with havin…

AI assessment note: “I can't, unfortunately. Uh, that's all sealed. Um, but, but let me give you”

Q So that, okay. So as a second part of my question is how do you measure active?

A Well, uh, if they haven't logged in a certain period of time, if they haven't taken any calls, you know, a lot of people that, that login don't take any calls. That's a challenge because if they log in, they don't take any calls. And then somebody, you know, next year tries to bring them up for a call. We've got a bunch of, uh, basically dead folks on the system is a huge problem. And so clarity doesn't win by having more experts. Like, we have 20,000. We're long past the point where we have saturation in almost every category. Our issue now is the quality. Right? So, um, are those folks, uh, attacking enough quality? The number of people we had would be a problem if the demand were so high that it saturated more than we have, but it hasn't yet.

AI assessment note: “if they haven't logged in a certain period of time, if they haven't taken any calls”

Q So that, okay. So as a second part of my question is how do you measure active?

A Well, uh, if they haven't logged in a certain period of time, if they haven't taken any calls, you know, a lot of people that, that login don't take any calls. That's a challenge because if they log in, they don't take any calls. And then somebody, you know, next year tries to bring them up for a call. We've got a bunch of, uh, basically dead folks on the system is a huge problem. And so clarity doesn't win by having more experts. Like, we have 20,000. We're long past the point where we have saturation in almost every category. Our issue now is the quality. Right? So, um, are those folks, uh, attacking enough quality? The number of people we had would be a problem if the demand were so high that it saturated more than we have, but it hasn't yet.

AI assessment note: “if they haven't logged in a certain period of time, if they haven't taken any calls”

Q So take me forward to that first dollar. Where do you make your first dollar? You got a sense of what it was like to make your own money to sell something.

A In my family, I've got a very big family, about 80 cousins. Um, no one's ever been to college. Everyone just works kind of hand to mouth. And one of the things is the day you graduate high school, um, you're on your own. There's no, like, hey, hang out at home. There's no, we're putting you through college, because there is no college. And, uh, so when I turned 17, or around the time I was 17 when I graduated, uh, I moved out of the house, almost like the day I graduated. I got two full-time jobs. Uh, during the day, I was a telemarketer, uh, selling mainframe computers. This is circa 92. Uh, at night, I made delicious sandwiches at this place called D'Angelo's, which was like a subway at the time. And so I worked from, from eight to five, and then five to one every day. And I had so much energy back then, like, people now are like, oh my god, two full-time jobs. Well, it's like, who cares? I got all this extra time, right? I'm otherwise sleeping. Uh, but, but at the end of my senior year, I had this other kind of bizarre moment. Uh, and all these things are going to tie together. Um, at the end of my senior year in high school, all my friends at the lunch table are sitting around talking about, uh, where they're going to go to college. And this is such a loser moment. It occurs to me at that time that I haven't even applied for college. Like I didn't even know that was an opti…

AI assessment note: “I got two full-time jobs. Uh, during the day, I was a telemarketer”

Q Okay, so let's start with, with LaunchRock, right? So, so they raised, they launched in 2011, I believe, and they raised about 800 K. There were four founders there. Where did you start to get involved with that crew?

A Um, so something happened in the early days of startups.com when we only had a couple properties fundable being kind of like the preeminent one that we're really pushing on because circa 20 12 crowdfunding was a really big deal. Um, we saw something that a lot of other people didn't see, which was we didn't think crowdfunding was going to pan out the way everybody thought it would. Um, at the time Kickstarter had just done their first million dollar raise. I mean, crowdfunding was like everything. But we started to have this kind of, um, anti view where we're saying, you know what, this sounds awesome, and I love the hype, and you're reading about every other articles about crowdfunding, but I don't see more people coming up with more good ideas to get funded, and I don't see more people getting created as investors. I don't think that's going to be enough just to do that as a sole business.

AI assessment note: “something happened in the early days of startups.com when we only had a couple properties”

Q Okay, so let's start with, with LaunchRock, right? So, so they raised, they launched in 2011, I believe, and they raised about 800 K. There were four founders there. Where did you start to get involved with that crew?

A Um, so something happened in the early days of startups.com when we only had a couple properties fundable being kind of like the preeminent one that we're really pushing on because circa 20 12 crowdfunding was a really big deal. Um, we saw something that a lot of other people didn't see, which was we didn't think crowdfunding was going to pan out the way everybody thought it would. Um, at the time Kickstarter had just done their first million dollar raise. I mean, crowdfunding was like everything. But we started to have this kind of, um, anti view where we're saying, you know what, this sounds awesome, and I love the hype, and you're reading about every other articles about crowdfunding, but I don't see more people coming up with more good ideas to get funded, and I don't see more people getting created as investors. I don't think that's going to be enough just to do that as a sole business.

AI assessment note: “something happened in the early days of startups.com when we only had a couple properties”