The Exchanges

Q of the things that I think a lot of founders, um, Don't spend enough time thinking about. Everyone has a product vision, but they don't think about order of operations, sequencing, like what should come first and then second and then third. Did you guys ever debate this internally? I'm sure you have a million projects. How'd you decide what to do next and then after that and for after?

A Uh, we debated internally. We have this thing called decision memo where, uh, we list the options of how we should do things and everybody contributes their, their data and their, uh, evidence that they have supporting one way or the other. Um, so that, that's how we do it and we try to be very strategic about it, but, um, we don't always get it right. So little known is the fact that in 2020 we launched a product called inbox. Uh, because we thought, okay, we need to help people engage with their buyer, and there is a lot of things happening in the inbox, so let's do an inbox, an email inbox, which came out like a replacement for Gmail, an email client, and we pulled it out after a couple of months for that very reason. It's a problem with sequencing. We're not ready to bring this product to market. We are still, we still have too much work to do targeting marketers, targeting ops, And it was too early for us to go after the end users and helping the end users. Uh, even though I love the product, we pull it out because, you know, one thing is to have a good product. Another one is to be able to bring it to market. And I, I, most entrepreneurs are, Misunderstand the, uh, the challenge of bringing your product to markets, you know, you, uh, take so much energy. And so at the time we felt that we didn't have the energy to bring this product. So to, to your question, now we think …

AI assessment note: “We have this thing called decision memo where, uh, we list the options”

Q Is that first round on, this is earlier, this is pre, this is your funding graph, this was before 2018, right? Was this Chili Piper?

A No, no, so this is, this company, it was a shitty name, it was called Floating Apps, because we're floating in the cloud. Um, that's also another reason why my wife should have joined me, because she had better ideas. So she came in, she said, we're gonna be called Chili Piper. And everybody said, why Chili Piper? And, uh, mostly because it's cool. Uh, the way we came up with it, we were looking at something around Pipeline, and, and, uh, we thought, uh, there was a super cool ad for the Champagne Piper, let's say, he who pays the Piper, call the tune, which is a saying in British, like, he who pays the Piper, call the tune. So we said, let's call the company Piper, and that was, of course, not available, so we found a play on the word, Chili Pepper, Chili Piper. I'm sure you get it. Uh, and we launched it.

AI assessment note: “No, no, so this is, this company, it was a shitty name, it was called Floating Apps”

Q I see. Okay. That makes a lot of sense. So when you say you're on your way to being a unicorn, I mean, uh, what, what revenue at the valuations you're currently seeing in the marketplace, what revenue do you think you have to hit to reach a billion dollar valuation?

A I would say that if we meet our plan by the end of the year, getting the twenty million, we'd be there. Uh, it used to be unicorns where, uh, somewhere you had to be like in 30 to 50, but now you see that the market has changed. And what has changed is that, uh, it's not like, well, there's no question. There's a lot of money and liquidity and so on, but I think we all observing that the winners, uh, grow faster than you'd expected. So if you look at, uh, Gong, which is one of our customers and strong partner, if you do the data dog on the public market, um, these companies grow super fast, much faster than expected. So the valuation reflects this expectation, right?

AI assessment note: “if we meet our plan by the end of the year, getting the twenty million”

Q I see. Okay. That makes a lot of sense. So when you say you're on your way to being a unicorn, I mean, uh, what, what revenue at the valuations you're currently seeing in the marketplace, what revenue do you think you have to hit to reach a billion dollar valuation?

A I would say that if we meet our plan by the end of the year, getting the twenty million, we'd be there. Uh, it used to be unicorns where, uh, somewhere you had to be like in 30 to 50, but now you see that the market has changed. And what has changed is that, uh, it's not like, well, there's no question. There's a lot of money and liquidity and so on, but I think we all observing that the winners, uh, grow faster than you'd expected. So if you look at, uh, Gong, which is one of our customers and strong partner, if you do the data dog on the public market, um, these companies grow super fast, much faster than expected. So the valuation reflects this expectation, right?

AI assessment note: “if we meet our plan by the end of the year, getting the twenty million”

Q All right. So tell us about the company. What's the company do and what's your revenue model? Is it a pure play SaaS company?

A Yeah, we have a pure play SaaS company. So very straightforward. We sell subscriptions. We charge per user on an annual basis. Um, and as you say, we, in the buyer enablement, so our solution solves a very simple problem. It's one of the things that you wonder why it wasn't done before. Uh, when people come to a website, they fill a form and they click submit. They get a message that says, uh, somebody's gonna call you, uh, soon, and you're just wondering, well, who's going to call me and when, right? So that we solve that problem. We have a smart agent that, uh, you put on the webpage, and it finds who's available, and it will automatically connect the prospect to the right rep, or enable the prospect to book a meeting, or engage in whatever way the prospect wants to do. That's our model we sell to, uh, Uh, a lot of the leading tech companies like, uh, LinkedIn, Facebook, uh, and many of these, uh, um, other SaaS companies.

AI assessment note: “Yeah, we have a pure play SaaS company. So very straightforward. We sell subscriptions.”

Q All right. So tell us about the company. What's the company do and what's your revenue model? Is it a pure play SaaS company?

A Yeah, we have a pure play SaaS company. So very straightforward. We sell subscriptions. We charge per user on an annual basis. Um, and as you say, we, in the buyer enablement, so our solution solves a very simple problem. It's one of the things that you wonder why it wasn't done before. Uh, when people come to a website, they fill a form and they click submit. They get a message that says, uh, somebody's gonna call you, uh, soon, and you're just wondering, well, who's going to call me and when, right? So that we solve that problem. We have a smart agent that, uh, you put on the webpage, and it finds who's available, and it will automatically connect the prospect to the right rep, or enable the prospect to book a meeting, or engage in whatever way the prospect wants to do. That's our model we sell to, uh, Uh, a lot of the leading tech companies like, uh, LinkedIn, Facebook, uh, and many of these, uh, um, other SaaS companies.

AI assessment note: “Yeah, we have a pure play SaaS company. So very straightforward. We sell subscriptions.”

Q Okay. Wait, take me to that decision. Cause that's a big, why go that route versus going up market and only looking at 50,000 ACVs?

A Yes, you know, that's a contrarian view I have, actually, uh, because you hear all the issues in the good market, good market, and, uh, and, uh, I'm observing, uh, our HubSpot is taking market share away from Salesforce, and they take them from the bottom, and then from Marketo and from the other, they take them from the bottom, because when you start with a product that can serve the bottom efficiently, and you start going up, uh, the incumbent that started up has a very hard time competing, right? The product is more complex, it's more expensive, and, and so, uh, I've already thought that the, the way to, the better way to go up market is go down market first. Um, yeah, so that's what's right. I, I, I see. Oh, Dharmesh Shah keeps repeating, oh, we love SMBs, we love SMBs, we just wake up for SMBs. And in the meantime, if you look at the product, they keep bringing enterprise features, more and more, and they get more enterprise business, you know, and so, I'm sure it's on purpose, like, pretending that he loves SMBs in the meantime, he's going and crushing Salesforce on the enterprise side, you know. It's like, like, like, the status mode. So that, that's, that's what we're doing. Between, we, we, doing a self-service, we want to, we want to make sure that we serve the, The smaller guys out there well, efficiently for both parties. And, um, and we think these are, these are t…

AI assessment note: “the better way to go up market is go down market first”

Q And actually, because a lot of people are trying to do that if they're moving into SaaS, was it a POC? Did you call them a design partner to help you build the product together? Because there was no software they could test.

A Yes, exactly right. So it's a good question because you have to structure it. You have to be smart, right? You can't do a service. The fee has to be a prepayment against software because otherwise they own the IP, right? If you do a service business, you do develop for them and they own the IP. So the, it's very important if you ever do something like that, where you ask upfront, uh, somebody, we need something and build it for them that you don't structure it as a service business. Your structure, it is the fee. Sometimes later we did acceleration fee, so product roadmap, acceleration fee, so people give you money, it's your money, and they own nothing.

AI assessment note: “The fee has to be a prepayment against software because otherwise they own the IP”

Q Got it. Okay. Why go into the event space?

A Uh, it was a request from our customers. They, they, um, found that just like on the inbound thing, you want to, uh, get to the meetings booked as fast as possible. And that's where all the value is, right? Because in sales, in the B to B sales, meetings is where the value started happening, right? So you have people booking meetings. So we had all these events managers, uh, spending a lot of money to attend an event and sponsor an event. And then what they would do is scan badges, right? So scan badges is nice, uh, but that doesn't get you pipeline. Yeah. Then you have to follow up for email them, go through the same thing. So all of them realize that what matters is try to get meetings ahead of time and meetings on the floor instead of go straight to meetings, not these intermediary steps of, uh, scanning badges, emailing campaign and so on. So that's what happened. They came to us say, you are the meeting booking company. Can we, uh, can we help? And what we found is that it's a bit more complex with events because you're not sure yet who's going to attend in terms of the reps, which reps you can send. You have meeting rooms that have capacity. You have, uh, uh, other constraints around time. So we thought, look, we're good at solving complex problems. It's a real value creation. It's very aligned with what we do. Let's build an event. Now, obviously the question was, Will t…

AI assessment note: “it was a request from our customers. They, they, um, found that”

Q And it was, uh, what was the pre money on that?

A It was, uh, the post was close to, uh, 75. So it was, uh, 15 on, uh, and then, uh, and then we, um, 63, 75 post. Yeah. And then, um, and then, um, we kept growing, uh, even as you can imagine when you bootstrap for a long time, you, uh, all of a sudden you have money, you can invest beyond what you were doing and then things go better. So unsolicited in March, we got an interest from Tiger Global. Um, uh, I got on a call with John Curtis, uh, and literally he made the offer on the fly. Uh, the, uh, later the evening with a term sheet two weeks later with the money for a thirty three million be around. So now we, uh, we definitely growing faster than we used to, as you can imagine with the money to invest. We passed 150 employees. Uh, we, we actually passed the ten million mark earlier this year, so we're not, not aiming for the twenty million mark. That's what we, we, we aiming for.

AI assessment note: “the post was close to, uh, 75. So it was, uh, 15 on”

Q And it was, uh, what was the pre money on that?

A It was, uh, the post was close to, uh, 75. So it was, uh, 15 on, uh, and then, uh, and then we, um, 63, 75 post. Yeah. And then, um, and then, um, we kept growing, uh, even as you can imagine when you bootstrap for a long time, you, uh, all of a sudden you have money, you can invest beyond what you were doing and then things go better. So unsolicited in March, we got an interest from Tiger Global. Um, uh, I got on a call with John Curtis, uh, and literally he made the offer on the fly. Uh, the, uh, later the evening with a term sheet two weeks later with the money for a thirty three million be around. So now we, uh, we definitely growing faster than we used to, as you can imagine with the money to invest. We passed 150 employees. Uh, we, we actually passed the ten million mark earlier this year, so we're not, not aiming for the twenty million mark. That's what we, we, we aiming for.

AI assessment note: “the post was close to, uh, 75. So it was, uh, 15 on”

Q Amazing. Okay, so I want to dive into the story, right? So how did you get to cash flow positive?

A Uh, well, so, um, we had to do a painful, uh, a painful reduction in force. Um, the story you're telling is that we took everybody to Morocco in an unbelievable trip, and we got a lot of shit for that because people say, look at this idiot. They're spending all this money. Uh, but it's irresponsibly, but it's not quite the way it happened. Uh, we do a trip every year. We actually just back from Iceland. Uh, even though we cash positive, you know, we manage our costs. We, we flew everybody to Iceland. Um, in Morocco, we were operating under a certain growth assumption, um, you know, and so with, uh, more than 200 people in the company, um, and, um, as the market slowed down, we thought, okay, uh, let's talk to additional, uh, sources of financing to see if we can continue that growth. And when we came back, you said a few hours after, it actually took us, uh, An entire week of meetings with potential investor immediately upon coming back from Morocco, where it was clear that, that the market changed too much investors had lost appetite. So to your question, we, we laid off a third of the company.

AI assessment note: “we had to do a painful, uh, a painful reduction in force.”

Q Are people typically using this with their, I mean, the thing you just described, usually SDRs are doing, you know, one SDR for three account executives or some ratio, and that's how people scale their inside sales teams after a series A, series B or whatever. Are people replacing their SDRs with this or they're working together?

A That's a great question, Nathan. Uh, when we first, uh, launched it, we only had booking, and it's SDR's job to book, right? So, um, we had a bit of a pushback, because as you're replacing my job, I'm not so happy about it. Exactly. I even had a manager tell me, uh, how am I gonna, how am I going to get my commission? Um, right? Because, uh, and it was not our intention. Our intention is to do something that's more efficient for everything. Then we added the phone capabilities, so the prospect can, can, uh, say, I'd like to talk now, and then connect the phone. And phone is the realm of SDRs, right? So, um, now we have a solution that is SDR friendly, and then it's up to each company to decide what to best, uh, how to best route.

AI assessment note: “now we have a solution that is SDR friendly, and then it's up to each company”

Q Yep. Nicholas, before we wrap up, I hear you might be buying a company soon. What's going on? Look at that curveball guys. Chili Piper is not acquiring any, any, any businesses in the next, in the next six months. So is that a strategy you're going to use with a thirty million of cash you just got or no?

A Uh, so, so prospects because, uh, is, is definitely something we're considering, and, uh, and I was just wondering how you could have heard it, uh, but, um, uh, the answer is, is yes, um, opportunistically. So we're not, we're not on a roll-up right now, the way ZoomInfo is doing. Uh, we, we, Um, I have a bit of a different approach because our number one core value is help, and number two is innovate. So we trust ourselves to innovate and come up with new products, and that's what we focus on. So you, you would only, um, my question is if we find somebody particularly innovative in a particular space adjacent to ours, so that's what we'll be looking at. But it's not, um, again, we're not on a roll-up. We're very much looking at opportunities Opportunistically, if that's something that could be a good compliment.

AI assessment note: “the answer is, is yes, um, opportunistically.”

Q Why are you looking at me like that?

A No, no, no, because I took an analogy and I wonder if you, so soccer fans, if you're going to see the PSG where they have Messi and Mbappe and then they lose, you know, with all the superstars. So we thought the way we're going to do it is like a young team. Not young in age, but in, in, in, in seniority. People who are, um, So we moved to a lot of director level instead of having C level, and, and we restructure thinking of how the dynamic is going to work, and so we, we cut across all departments, but with a plan on how we were going to operate more efficiently, with possibly less senior paper on, on paper, but very motivated and very talented, um, so that's, that's how we did it. And I forgot to mention, so the way we handled it, the, the shock that we, we had, uh, Six weeks during which all the company was focused on helping other, the people who had been laid off find a job, so we helped them on LinkedIn. I wrote, uh, uh, 70 recommendations. I took calls from reference, and we all said, look, we're going to help you find a job, and it worked well. Uh, people did find jobs very quickly.

AI assessment note: “because I took an analogy and I wonder if you”

Q What, for your account executives, when they are closing these deals, what annual quota do you have them on? Do you follow the million and then a 200,000 dollar on target earnings of pay?

A Uh, it depends between enterprise and market, and it also depends, uh, um, um, the seniority of the person we're bringing on board. We have a, a bit unusual than other companies. We, we, uh, Adjust the code as the code is based on the pipeline. So we said, look, if we provide you this pipeline, you should convert. We're very focused on conversion, right? We, we bring in people and say, your job is to convert these deals. So if you bring your own pipeline, you get compensated more because it's an extra. So that's awesome. They can do that, but we're going to give you X amount of pipeline and we expect Y in revenues. And so As we bring on, on, on the new reps, we give them less pipeline, right? Cause they will get to, to learn and, and therefore a smaller quota. So we have a gamut of quota. It's, it's a bit, I don't have the company says here's a quota swim or sink. Uh, but, um, that's not our approach. Our approach is to, uh, we're very focused on, uh, professional growth. And so, uh, we give a lot of autonomy, but we also give a lot of help. So if somebody has zero pipeline starting with, then they can't be expected to meet, you know, a certain quota. So the answer to your question is very nuanced because we have a quota that varies from one web to the other.

AI assessment note: “the answer to your question is very nuanced because we have a quota that varies”

Q Because the key thing I want to get into is how you went from single product, great mousetrap to multi-product strategy. That's right, exactly. So revenue was kind, I mean, not flat, but right, you were sort of stuck between a 1,000,003 million up to twenty-nineteen. Something happened in twenty-nineteen. Is that when you started thinking multi-product?

A So that's a fascinating thing that, that, uh, if you look at this curve, that's fascinating. So 2017, we come up with this idea and we build this product. Summer 17 segment, the company segment, does an A-B test to see if it works. They doubled the inbound conversion rate. So they go, uh, they didn't disclose the number, but they doubled it, and they bought it immediately. And then Facebook comes to us and say, we want to do that for SMB teams. They buy our software. We do a contract with Facebook. By the way, we have a no discount policy. So I do about five rounds of negotiation with, not negotiation, um, with the procurement Facebook. I said, but you know, we Facebook. I said, well, we chili paper. And, um, five rounds and say, well, we don't do that. And the other thing, not only do you add no discount, but we say you pay up front. And so Facebook say, uh, we pay 60 days. And I said, uh, So you have all the money in the world. We have no money. Why would you, would I find you, right? You don't do 60 days. If you think you pay your 60 days. Anyway, in the end they said, okay, and, and they, and we did a quarter million dollars with Facebook. So over time. So, so now we're thinking we're golden. We, we have this strong product. It doubles in one conversion rates and, and, um, Facebook is a customer segmenters prove it and the, and nothing happened. Amazing. Our previous produc…

AI assessment note: “2017, we come up with this idea and we build this product.”

Q Are people typically using this with their, I mean, the thing you just described, usually SDRs are doing, you know, one SDR for three account executives or some ratio, and that's how people scale their inside sales teams after a series A, series B or whatever. Are people replacing their SDRs with this or they're working together?

A That's a great question, Nathan. Uh, when we first, uh, launched it, we only had booking, and it's SDR's job to book, right? So, um, we had a bit of a pushback, because as you're replacing my job, I'm not so happy about it. Exactly. I even had a manager tell me, uh, how am I gonna, how am I going to get my commission? Um, right? Because, uh, and it was not our intention. Our intention is to do something that's more efficient for everything. Then we added the phone capabilities, so the prospect can, can, uh, say, I'd like to talk now, and then connect the phone. And phone is the realm of SDRs, right? So, um, now we have a solution that is SDR friendly, and then it's up to each company to decide what to best, uh, how to best route.

AI assessment note: “now we have a solution that is SDR friendly”

Q What, for your account executives, when they are closing these deals, what annual quota do you have them on? Do you follow the million and then a 200,000 dollar on target earnings of pay?

A Uh, it depends between enterprise and market, and it also depends, uh, um, um, the seniority of the person we're bringing on board. We have a, a bit unusual than other companies. We, we, uh, Adjust the code as the code is based on the pipeline. So we said, look, if we provide you this pipeline, you should convert. We're very focused on conversion, right? We, we bring in people and say, your job is to convert these deals. So if you bring your own pipeline, you get compensated more because it's an extra. So that's awesome. They can do that, but we're going to give you X amount of pipeline and we expect Y in revenues. And so As we bring on, on, on the new reps, we give them less pipeline, right? Cause they will get to, to learn and, and therefore a smaller quota. So we have a gamut of quota. It's, it's a bit, I don't have the company says here's a quota swim or sink. Uh, but, um, that's not our approach. Our approach is to, uh, we're very focused on, uh, professional growth. And so, uh, we give a lot of autonomy, but we also give a lot of help. So if somebody has zero pipeline starting with, then they can't be expected to meet, you know, a certain quota. So the answer to your question is very nuanced because we have a quota that varies from one web to the other.

AI assessment note: “we have a quota that varies from one web to the other.”

Q while they're doing it, right? That's like a nice combination, but it's really hard to, um, navigate the storyline where the founders take secondary, then a year later the market crashes and you have to lay off half the team. So let's start there. I would say Johnny and Hoppin did this terribly. You're doing it in a much better way. How did you manage this storyline with the team?

A Uh, it was extremely challenging, uh, because it was very, uh, sudden. Um, we, uh, so for background information, we, we, we raised fifteen million, uh, in our era. So we bootstrapped for four years, then we raised fifteen million in twenty-twenty, just after COVID, and then Tiger Global came in and say, we want to give you thirty-three million at an absurd valuation. I thought it was absurd, but Um, but they didn't, and so we took it, and that's when we did the secondary. So we had a lot of cash in the company, and, and, ah, we invested and hired, including engineers to rebuild the, the system and so on. And, um, we started in twenty-twenty-two on a good trajectory, so our growth was actually higher than planned. And, um, we started hearing people talking about layoffs and things, but we were not affected, and I think this is weird, right? So we continued, ah, investing, including in our company culture, so we, at the time we had 250 people in 42 countries, in a 180 cities, and once a year we get together. And of course, when we get together, it's a big deal, right, because we, it's like the one time we meet in person. So, in all fairness, we did something a bit extravagant, um.

AI assessment note: “So for background information, we, we, we raised fifteen million”

Q Yeah. Yeah. And then when you raised the Series B from thirty-three million, what was that valuation?

A Well, that one, I won't disclose it, but, uh, but it was, uh, uh, very favorable, uh, uh, valuation. The Tiger Global is a wonderful company. Uh, they move very fast. They're very, uh, entrepreneur-friendly and they, uh, They come in when they, they think you've passed that, uh, um, side where you're going to be successful, right? So, so they pay much higher than, than the A and C around BCs were still, you know, focusing on the risk and things. They think, okay, this is going to be a winner. And if they invest in 50 winners, maybe some of them may not make it, but overall with their portfolio, it will work. So we, we, uh, we getting closer to on a, on a way to unicorn now with this kind of valuation we got.

AI assessment note: “Well, that one, I won't disclose it, but”

Q Ok, interesting. And if you peel that onion, what, what does Grosch churn, and then obviously we add expansion back, what's Grosch churn look like?

A The, the more interesting, uh, um, breakdown is, uh, what is, uh, Our next round expansion, the enterprise versus mean market versus small business, because a small business, uh, we, we barely had a hundred, uh, we have a trend that's very high. People come, they're not sure they, they disappear, you know, uh, and we, we, unlike other companies, we don't refuse to serve them. So we don't say, are you too small for us? Uh, uh, I see the drift is doing that because they've had the churn problem. So then they're trying to make their numbers look better. So they even refuse to take companies. We're nice people, or, you know, if you want to work with us, you know, it may not work out, but, but, but we'll work with you. So, our trend is super high in this SMB, and our net revenue retention is a hundred percent, but our net revenue retention in the enterprise space is north of a 150%, like the number you mentioned, and the market is in between. So, um, obviously, What we're going to do is work on our front. So make it more compelling for small businesses to, to get value faster out of the box. Uh, and of course, continue selling to enterprise because our, our value is so clear.

AI assessment note: “The, the more interesting, uh, um, breakdown is”

Q Yeah. Yeah. And then when you raised the Series B from thirty-three million, what was that valuation?

A Well, that one, I won't disclose it, but, uh, but it was, uh, uh, very favorable, uh, uh, valuation. The Tiger Global is a wonderful company. Uh, they move very fast. They're very, uh, entrepreneur-friendly and they, uh, They come in when they, they think you've passed that, uh, um, side where you're going to be successful, right? So, so they pay much higher than, than the A and C around BCs were still, you know, focusing on the risk and things. They think, okay, this is going to be a winner. And if they invest in 50 winners, maybe some of them may not make it, but overall with their portfolio, it will work. So we, we, uh, we getting closer to on a, on a way to unicorn now with this kind of valuation we got.

AI assessment note: “Well, that one, I won't disclose it, but, uh, but it was”

Q Ok, interesting. And if you peel that onion, what, what does Grosch churn, and then obviously we add expansion back, what's Grosch churn look like?

A The, the more interesting, uh, um, breakdown is, uh, what is, uh, Our next round expansion, the enterprise versus mean market versus small business, because a small business, uh, we, we barely had a hundred, uh, we have a trend that's very high. People come, they're not sure they, they disappear, you know, uh, and we, we, unlike other companies, we don't refuse to serve them. So we don't say, are you too small for us? Uh, uh, I see the drift is doing that because they've had the churn problem. So then they're trying to make their numbers look better. So they even refuse to take companies. We're nice people, or, you know, if you want to work with us, you know, it may not work out, but, but, but we'll work with you. So, our trend is super high in this SMB, and our net revenue retention is a hundred percent, but our net revenue retention in the enterprise space is north of a 150%, like the number you mentioned, and the market is in between. So, um, obviously, What we're going to do is work on our front. So make it more compelling for small businesses to, to get value faster out of the box. Uh, and of course, continue selling to enterprise because our, our value is so clear.

AI assessment note: “The, the more interesting, uh, um, breakdown is”

Q had you on again in 2021, and that had grown to about 1200. I, I'm going to guess, you haven't told me this, but I'm going to guess ARPU today is even higher than that. Uh, and it's, or maybe flat, but because of your multi-product strategy, can you maybe just take us through the quick product? You launched with a scheduling tool. What products do you offer now today?

A Today we bring to market a full range of product, uh, focus on what we call inbound conversion. So we, uh, we, exactly what you said, we started with a scheduling product, but it was, it was already, uh, More targeted than just currently our initial product was to help SDRs book with account executives. So we already had routing one Robin and, you know, and one click. And something that people understand is that we give the ability for SDRs to book, um, themselves. So currently it's about having the prospect booking. You send a scheduling link and the prospect books, but SDRs doesn't work that way. You're on the phone. You, you, you're the one who is booking. So currently it actually doesn't serve this use case. And that's what we started with. So the early days, and we bootstrapped. We did raise money in 20.

AI assessment note: “Today we bring to market a full range of product, uh, focus on what we call inbound conversion.”

Q Can you go deeper on that? So like ClickFunnels is listed here. What are you doing in terms of backchanneling with ClickFunnels? And you say, Hey, we'll build this integration if you send us customers. And here's how we'll say, like, what does that sound like?

A The most common integration is, is the ability to, to, um, um, Book a meeting when you, uh, when you're in a product. So, so with this product that you're on the phone or you're in an email, and then you can enter in, click on the paper to book the meeting or send a link to. So that's the bulk of integration. So it's always about scheduling in other people's products. We also have integration for it. It was, uh, uh, sender. So for example, where if you send a gift, then you receive the gift and then you can book a meeting with the person who sent you, uh, That's the general approach we have, uh, you know, in many, many situations, uh, meeting needs to happen and we dare to enable the scaling.

AI assessment note: “So it's always about scheduling in other people's products.”