The Exchanges

Q Okay, got it. And do you have, like, I mean, how do you, how do you, uh, help them hit that, right? Are you having to hire SDRs for an AE to get them better leads or higher volume? Like, what levers are you pulling?

A Yeah, so this is interesting, right? Because I think over the last six months, we, uh, Really started going down more and more of that SDR route, the account based marketing route, uh, trying to focus more on, on outbound leaning away from the free trial and really leaning more towards leads that are registering for content webinars, white papers. And frankly, I think the learning in the last six months is the more you can get people into the product upfront. And the more in our particular case that we can drive inbound leads, the better our sales team is going to do. So We're actually moving a little bit away from the outbound and ABM model and finding, Hey, our sweet spot is going to be in the SMB middle market. We do grow our enterprise companies, but they all kind of start there around a thousand dollars per month on their licenses. And really the best way for us to bring that in at scale is have a great free trial and get people into that free trial. So even on our website today, it's more of a request free trial, but we're moving back to that inbound kind of self-serve model. Let the product speak and let people get in there.

AI assessment note: “we're moving back to that inbound kind of self-serve model”

Q Okay, got it. And do you have, like, I mean, how do you, how do you, uh, help them hit that, right? Are you having to hire SDRs for an AE to get them better leads or higher volume? Like, what levers are you pulling?

A Yeah, so this is interesting, right? Because I think over the last six months, we, uh, Really started going down more and more of that SDR route, the account based marketing route, uh, trying to focus more on, on outbound leaning away from the free trial and really leaning more towards leads that are registering for content webinars, white papers. And frankly, I think the learning in the last six months is the more you can get people into the product upfront. And the more in our particular case that we can drive inbound leads, the better our sales team is going to do. So We're actually moving a little bit away from the outbound and ABM model and finding, Hey, our sweet spot is going to be in the SMB middle market. We do grow our enterprise companies, but they all kind of start there around a thousand dollars per month on their licenses. And really the best way for us to bring that in at scale is have a great free trial and get people into that free trial. So even on our website today, it's more of a request free trial, but we're moving back to that inbound kind of self-serve model. Let the product speak and let people get in there.

AI assessment note: “We're actually moving a little bit away from the outbound and ABM model”

Q And then take us back. When, when did you start this thing?

A So we started back in 2013. It was a bit of an evolution from the agency. So we actually started this as kind of an R and D research project in the agency, you know, cause essentially what we noticed is that when it came to social media marketing, Everything was really set up for B to C marketers, right? It was all set up around brand awareness and broadcast. I'm going to build a really big audience on Twitter or Facebook, and then push my messages out. And it looks a lot like traditional marketing, right? What you would do with a TV ad or a billboard, uh, which is great for B to C marketers who are trying to build a brand, drive community engagement, uh, and, and really do that with a large audience for B to B marketers where you're very focused, You're talking about a long sales cycle. You're looking to nurture specific people, you know, social media marketing in the traditional sense, wasn't really set up for them. And so we kind of wondered why, right? Like, you know, social media is essentially one big CRM system. Why is there not a tool set to actually leverage it in that way? And that's what we set out to do. And so in, at the end of 20, 20 12, we started building out as an R and D project in 2013, we spun out. So Cito, We joined tech stars up here in Seattle and I've kind of been off to the races since then.

AI assessment note: “So we started back in 2013.”

Q Yeah, exactly. Yeah. Very cool. Um, who do you, so, so name a few of those real quick. Did I mean full contact clear bit, what other ones are you, are you, are you, you know, connected to their APIs?

A Exactly. So full contact is one of them. Clearbit is one that we use. Uh, and then we look at, you know, providers like cell hack and others, and then we connect right into the social media feeds as well. So right into the Twitter APIs and really where our differentiation is, is Taking all of that kind of huge amount of behavioral data that comes in from these social networks. Crunching that, associating it to the right contacts and providing the information in a usable way to our customers. So really where our unique advantage and our unique data set comes in, which provides kind of the, the inputs and the training data for our machine learning algorithms is social data, behavioral and intent data combined with kind of B to B conversion data. So Which of these leads are actually clicking, actually engaging, actually converting on the websites, making it to a form fill, an MQL stage, an opportunity stage, most qualified lead, a marketing qualified lead. Yeah. So, you know, so that would be kind of a defined score that is being calculated automatically to say that this lead is actually qualified and is ready to go off to sales. And then we also look at closed revenue, closed deals, right? And so that's where, that's where our unique data is really coming in is combining those two data sets. So as a B to B marketer, you know that, Hey, if my prospects are showing this sort of beh…

AI assessment note: “full contact is one of them. Clearbit is one that we use. Uh, and then we look at, you know, providers like cell hack”

Q And then take us back. When, when did you start this thing?

A So we started back in 2013. It was a bit of an evolution from the agency. So we actually started this as kind of an R and D research project in the agency, you know, cause essentially what we noticed is that when it came to social media marketing, Everything was really set up for B to C marketers, right? It was all set up around brand awareness and broadcast. I'm going to build a really big audience on Twitter or Facebook, and then push my messages out. And it looks a lot like traditional marketing, right? What you would do with a TV ad or a billboard, uh, which is great for B to C marketers who are trying to build a brand, drive community engagement, uh, and, and really do that with a large audience for B to B marketers where you're very focused, You're talking about a long sales cycle. You're looking to nurture specific people, you know, social media marketing in the traditional sense, wasn't really set up for them. And so we kind of wondered why, right? Like, you know, social media is essentially one big CRM system. Why is there not a tool set to actually leverage it in that way? And that's what we set out to do. And so in, at the end of 20, 20 12, we started building out as an R and D project in 2013, we spun out. So Cito, We joined tech stars up here in Seattle and I've kind of been off to the races since then.

AI assessment note: “So we started back in 2013.”

Q It's interesting you tie employee count to growth because I would much rather say See revenue per employee doubling and tripling versus your employee count, like doubling or tripling. Um, why in your brain did you feel the urge to say like, like to hedge your flat employee count?

A No, I think, I think it's, it's this notion of, and I think a lot of entrepreneurs get caught in this, right? This idea of scaling too quick, right? Putting a bunch of resources into the machine, even though you might be pointed a little bit in the wrong direction. And so when I say, you know, keeping the employee count flat, I mean, Hey, listen, we're not going to go and hire a ton of salespeople, customer success people. We're not going to throw a bunch of resources when we don't totally know which market we're going after. Right. Is that distribution model going to be inbound or is it going to be outbound? Are we focused on the enterprise and doing big deals up front? Or are we focused on S and B mid market and kind of growing customers as we go? What you don't want to do is you don't want to say, Hey, we're at 20 employees. We're going to grow to 40 just for the sake of growing top line revenue, but we're going to be running in the wrong direction. We're going to go collect a whole bunch of B to C customers or a whole bunch of enterprise custom deals that we're not going to be able to serve. So I think that's where we've kind of looked at and said, Hey, before we take that next step to really going into growth mode, let's make sure that we are focused on the right segment of the market and that we're really feeling that kind of product market fit fire.

AI assessment note: “when I say, you know, keeping the employee count flat, I mean”

Q It's interesting you tie employee count to growth because I would much rather say See revenue per employee doubling and tripling versus your employee count, like doubling or tripling. Um, why in your brain did you feel the urge to say like, like to hedge your flat employee count?

A No, I think, I think it's, it's this notion of, and I think a lot of entrepreneurs get caught in this, right? This idea of scaling too quick, right? Putting a bunch of resources into the machine, even though you might be pointed a little bit in the wrong direction. And so when I say, you know, keeping the employee count flat, I mean, Hey, listen, we're not going to go and hire a ton of salespeople, customer success people. We're not going to throw a bunch of resources when we don't totally know which market we're going after. Right. Is that distribution model going to be inbound or is it going to be outbound? Are we focused on the enterprise and doing big deals up front? Or are we focused on S and B mid market and kind of growing customers as we go? What you don't want to do is you don't want to say, Hey, we're at 20 employees. We're going to grow to 40 just for the sake of growing top line revenue, but we're going to be running in the wrong direction. We're going to go collect a whole bunch of B to C customers or a whole bunch of enterprise custom deals that we're not going to be able to serve. So I think that's where we've kind of looked at and said, Hey, before we take that next step to really going into growth mode, let's make sure that we are focused on the right segment of the market and that we're really feeling that kind of product market fit fire.

AI assessment note: “This idea of scaling too quick, right? Putting a bunch of resources into the machine”

Q Yeah. And then, uh, what's your goal for 2017? You want a three X, one X, two X. What do you think you'll do?

A So, you know, it's, it's an interesting kind of topic in conversation. Um, right now we're actually looking at it and saying, Hey, we're going to slow down growth a little bit in 2017 and, and really kind of target to do a two X in 2017 while we focus on taking the customers that we have today and really becoming more and more core with them. And so the, the, the concept here is, Hey, we don't need to grow a ton in terms of customers. But we want to make sure that we're really sticky and core with our current customers, get those average deal sizes up, provide more volumes, and really get kind of the product, the customer success, the onboarding, the implementation, all to a place where then in 2018 we're ready to really grow fast, start to three X again, and, and really press on the gas pedals. That's kind of how we look at 2017 is that, and you're kind of seeing this in the market all up, right, is that it's, it's not necessarily about growth at all costs. We want to focus on the fundamentals, focus on our relationship with customers, really get core, really get sticky, and then press on the gas when we're, when we're ready.

AI assessment note: “really kind of target to do a two X in 2017”

Q Yeah, exactly. Yeah. Very cool. Um, who do you, so, so name a few of those real quick. Did I mean full contact clear bit, what other ones are you, are you, are you, you know, connected to their APIs?

A Exactly. So full contact is one of them. Clearbit is one that we use. Uh, and then we look at, you know, providers like cell hack and others, and then we connect right into the social media feeds as well. So right into the Twitter APIs and really where our differentiation is, is Taking all of that kind of huge amount of behavioral data that comes in from these social networks. Crunching that, associating it to the right contacts and providing the information in a usable way to our customers. So really where our unique advantage and our unique data set comes in, which provides kind of the, the inputs and the training data for our machine learning algorithms is social data, behavioral and intent data combined with kind of B to B conversion data. So Which of these leads are actually clicking, actually engaging, actually converting on the websites, making it to a form fill, an MQL stage, an opportunity stage, most qualified lead, a marketing qualified lead. Yeah. So, you know, so that would be kind of a defined score that is being calculated automatically to say that this lead is actually qualified and is ready to go off to sales. And then we also look at closed revenue, closed deals, right? And so that's where, that's where our unique data is really coming in is combining those two data sets. So as a B to B marketer, you know that, Hey, if my prospects are showing this sort of beh…

AI assessment note: “full contact is one of them. Clearbit is one that we use... cell hack”

Q Yeah. And then, uh, what's your goal for 2017? You want a three X, one X, two X. What do you think you'll do?

A So, you know, it's, it's an interesting kind of topic in conversation. Um, right now we're actually looking at it and saying, Hey, we're going to slow down growth a little bit in 2017 and, and really kind of target to do a two X in 2017 while we focus on taking the customers that we have today and really becoming more and more core with them. And so the, the, the concept here is, Hey, we don't need to grow a ton in terms of customers. But we want to make sure that we're really sticky and core with our current customers, get those average deal sizes up, provide more volumes, and really get kind of the product, the customer success, the onboarding, the implementation, all to a place where then in 2018 we're ready to really grow fast, start to three X again, and, and really press on the gas pedals. That's kind of how we look at 2017 is that, and you're kind of seeing this in the market all up, right, is that it's, it's not necessarily about growth at all costs. We want to focus on the fundamentals, focus on our relationship with customers, really get core, really get sticky, and then press on the gas when we're, when we're ready.

AI assessment note: “really kind of target to do a two X in 2017”

Q So right now you're, you're either, uh, you're either raising more capital or you're in acquisition talks. Which one is it?

A So, you know, the nice thing is that revenue growth for us has gotten us to a point where we're almost cashflow positive. Um, and so that's kind of the, the game plan, right? Is get cashflow positive, really focused on getting core with our customers here in 2017, and then take on some new capital when we're ready to really step on the gas and scale, right? I mean, there's no point in going and doing a five million dollar series A if we can't make use of that capital very quickly. Uh, so the nice thing is that we've got the revenue growth, you know, we're kind of getting to that point where we're cashflow positive and, uh, and that's going to give us a lot of optionality this year.

AI assessment note: “then take on some new capital when we're ready to really step on the gas”

Q you, I'm just looking, just in my interviews, Radius, CaliberMind, Unami, RevBoss, HipLead, HG Data, Full Conduct, DiscoverOrg, Attentive, Illumino, Artisan, I mean, Corporate Three 60, you know all these guys. How do you, how do you win? Like, when you're on a sales call and someone says, well, I just got off the phone with Artisan, why should I, like, hire you over them? How do you win them?

A This is, I mean, this is, this is one of the toughest parts of the marketing technology, knowledge industry as a whole. And frankly, I was talking to another entrepreneur yesterday. It's like everywhere in SAS is crowded these days, right? I mean, there's so many people in all these categories. This is why for me, it's so important that we get our product market fit right, right now. And what we learned is as having an SDR and going completely outbound, that's when you're going to run into all of that competition, right? Because everybody is sitting in that echo chamber. But if you can have a good product with a very simple value prop and let people come in inbound for it, we're going to actually really have a head start in terms of building pipeline and breaking into the market. So what that's taught us is, Hey, yeah, but what will your product do that?

AI assessment note: “having an SDR and going completely outbound, that's when you're going to run into all of that competition”

Q you, I'm just looking, just in my interviews, Radius, CaliberMind, Unami, RevBoss, HipLead, HG Data, Full Conduct, DiscoverOrg, Attentive, Illumino, Artisan, I mean, Corporate Three 60, you know all these guys. How do you, how do you win? Like, when you're on a sales call and someone says, well, I just got off the phone with Artisan, why should I, like, hire you over them? How do you win them?

A This is, I mean, this is, this is one of the toughest parts of the marketing technology, knowledge industry as a whole. And frankly, I was talking to another entrepreneur yesterday. It's like everywhere in SAS is crowded these days, right? I mean, there's so many people in all these categories. This is why for me, it's so important that we get our product market fit right, right now. And what we learned is as having an SDR and going completely outbound, that's when you're going to run into all of that competition, right? Because everybody is sitting in that echo chamber. But if you can have a good product with a very simple value prop and let people come in inbound for it, we're going to actually really have a head start in terms of building pipeline and breaking into the market. So what that's taught us is, Hey, yeah, but what will your product do that?

AI assessment note: “if you can have a good product with a very simple value prop and let people come in inbound”