The Exchanges

Q literally the week, like the day or the week after I left SAS Society, I was reading that Susquehanna gave, uh, Greg up at Muckrack. They did a hundred and eighty million series A investment of which a big chunk of that was secondary for Greg. So great story for Greg. You have him speaking. What should folks expect to learn from him at SAS stock this year? Yeah. Yeah.

A No, exactly. I'm really looking forward to that. Greg's going to be a first time speaker. He's obviously, you know, flying into, to, to Dublin for this event. You know, he bootstrapped to fifty million ARR, um, which, uh, you know, again, such an impressive feat, uh, to, to, to, to do that. Right. I don't know what the percentages are of, of founders that have done that, but I'm sure it's less than one percent. Um, so, uh, that's going to be super exciting. He's going to share the, why, you know, after bootstrapping to fifty million, you know, And, and that's a great business, right? Why he took venture capital, why he did a secondary, you know, and really kind of share openly and honestly, uh, his thought process about doing that. Of course, I mean, look, you know, if somebody is going to be investing a hundred and eighty million and there's a big secondary there, it's going to be tempting, but if you've got a fifty million ARR business, right, there perhaps is no need to. We, we know that some bootstrap founders that are at like a hundred million ARR and, you know, with great profit margins that Will never sell their business, right? Because there, there, there is really no need to. So it's going to be really interesting to understand why, why Greg has done that. And I think perhaps, you know, part of it is around like faster growth. There is the secondary part, but faster gr…

AI assessment note: “He's going to share the, why, you know, after bootstrapping to fifty million”

Q Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. That's a great group. And, and, um, these are like, if people join, they get access to a dashboard. And then there's basically a list of events coming up and they can pick which ones they want to attend, or how does it actually work once you're inside?

A Yeah, it's, it's more than that. I would almost like take the tech out of it, right? The, the, the tech that nobody, like the tech isn't, isn't that important. Like they, they join because they want to be a part of a group of founders like themselves who are scaling to ten million in revenue. Right. Uh, and, and with that, we then put them into a smaller groups of flight five, six, seven people, uh, That, uh, that are either, let's say they're going from five to ten million in revenue or one to five million in revenue. We put them in that group, uh, and then they meet on a monthly basis and go through, uh, uh, an agenda that we've kind of curated for them, uh, and to help them, you know, progress their, their business and, you know, unstick them. Uh, and then we do like regular, like online workshops for them and we get great people cause we've got a great network that we've built out through our, uh, uh, event side of the business. Uh, and so they get access to, uh, You know, we had Amir Orad from Sisense kind of come in and do a, you know, Chatham House Rules kind of session and just really just answer questions and people are like, wow, this is great. You know, like that you can bring people like this in and help us. And then we do these annual retreats. So we went to Amalfi. You joined us on that one in.

AI assessment note: “we then put them into a smaller groups of flight five, six, seven people”

Q How many side events last year were you able to count those up anyway?

A Like there was about 17, 18, uh, that we knew. So these are, these are events that we're, we're not running. Right. Uh, and so it's like, uh, Northstone, you know, who are a venture capital partner, um, you know, one of the leading VCs in Europe. Uh, they did like a paddle boarding event for founders down the river Liffey in, in, in Dublin. And I was a little bit like, where are all these founders going? I saw Oivind from, uh, whereby, you know, leaving the conference at like 11 AM on the first day. And I'm like, where are you going? It's like, oh, I'm off to a paddleboarding event, but I'm like, well, we're trying to keep everybody in the venue. There are all these things that are happening. And like, even I know the other VCs, they do like little, um, you know, content sessions kind of in hotels and venues, you know, around the RDS. So they're pulling a little bit, uh, you know, people out of the conference venue, which, you know, to some, some partners, you know, might not be the best thing, but I guess we're at that volume now that it doesn't really affect too much. If 30, 40 people kind of leave You're not going to feel that.

AI assessment note: “Like there was about 17, 18, uh, that we knew.”

Q I pulled out a couple I'm excited about, and I'm hoping you can maybe give us a tease on what we can expect from them. I think air call is potentially a great IPO candidate in 20, 24, over one hundred and thirty million dollars of revenue. You've landed Jonathan with the co-founders to speak. What can we expect from him and what stage is he on? Do you know?

A Yeah, I, I really like, uh, Jonathan's on the scale stage, um, and I had to double check. Uh, it's the biggest stage, yeah, uh, and really that's for the companies like Aircall, uh, obviously their Aircall was, uh, I think, you know, classified as a centaur, you know, a company that's doing a hundred million in revenue. I think you said now it's like a 130. Uh, I've had Aircall on, on, you know, our podcasts when they were probably, I think, series A, uh, and obviously, you know, we've kind of followed their journey over the years, uh, you know, as, as Sastoc and, Uh, themselves has, has grown, right? But they've obviously grown a lot, a lot faster. Uh, I had to check Jonathan was still coming because he's left air call. He's still the co-founder of course, but he's left air call. And now he's, he's set up like, uh, uh, an investment fund for property. So he's now into hotels and car parks and things like that. And I was like, is he still going to be interested in speaking in a SAS conference? Uh, but he is obviously he's got 10 years of lessons, right? From building out air call, being the co-founder, uh, I think he was the COO at one point, but he was also really kind of responsible for building out their, you know, initial go to market kind of motion. Right. Um, and he's actually going to be sharing how, you know, the playbook of how they built their sales go to market motio…

AI assessment note: “Jonathan's on the scale stage... he's actually going to be sharing how, you know, the playbook”

Q sorta, it's not VC, right? It's debt. We don't take equity, but like, it's kind of the same. There's a fund we manage there. And then also like, we now have like a mini event. Dude, events are maybe the hardest because of just the, like the nature of the pressure of, for example, in 2016, do you remember the initial check you had to write to reserve the space?

A Do you know what? It was super small initially and I, but I kind of got, um, I said like hoodwinked into it in terms of the strategy from the particular venue. Um, but you know, when I was looking in London, uh, you know, as a bootstrap founder, I was being asked, you know, like looking at venues, they were like 80,000 pounds. Uh, I didn't have that sort of money. Uh, and you had to put, you know, a good deposit down for that. So I ended up looking in Dublin, Ireland. Um, and we looked at the venue, which is the IDS, which is the same venue that Web Summit, um, you know, used to run at. And the last web summit was in 2015, 20 16. They had 40,000 people there. So this venue has like real capacity to scale. Uh, and when I looked at this beautiful concert hall, which was the first sort of space that we were kind of like booking and all three, I got a quote of 10,000 euros and I only had to put 1000 down. Right. And I was like, I can do that. And then, you know, with the rest of it, obviously I'll just, you know, sell tickets and I'll sell sponsorship and It'll cover my costs. I think that 10,000 ended up being nearer to 40,000 by the time of the conference, because you've got to pay for certain things that you just didn't really realize that were kind of there. And if you want to use, you know, any square inch of their property, you'll get charged for it. So there were a lot of th…

AI assessment note: “I got a quote of 10,000 euros and I only had to put 1000 down.”

Q What does that, what does that mean? Does that mean like AV or like lights?

A Yeah, it's state, it's stage design. It's building out the conference. So like we, we hire out a venue and it's effectively an empty shell, right? And then, you know, three days before the event, that, That venue is empty. Right. And then when the event opens and literally people are working like 24 hours a day, you're building the stands, you know, building the stages and the, uh, and you, you know, as the door opens, they might be still like, you know, turning a few screws and finishing bits off, uh, you know, kind of here and there, but literally within three days, the whole thing, the whole sort of like Sastok festival, uh, is built. Right. And, uh, And we use, you know, one company, which then uses, you know, a number of like different like suppliers to kind of help pull that all together. So it's a big operation. And obviously our team is mostly sales and marketing kind of focused, right? We've got two ops people.

AI assessment note: “Yeah, it's state, it's stage design. It's building out the conference.”

Q You do these smaller events and you do the big ones. For people listening right now running their own software companies, maybe with, you know, three, four, five, six million in revenue, thinking about doing their own sort of community building, where do you recommend they start?

A Yeah, it's a, it's a good question, right? I, I do get asked this, um, you know, often. I think, like, you know, I, I initially built out an audience from, from, from doing content, right? First of all, it started with the content, the blog, then the podcast. Uh, I think we, you know, we followed a similar path to, to, to that perspective. So you capture sort of the audience, those that are, you know, let's say you, you, you focus on a particular ICP, the founder, SaaS founder, or a bootstrap founder, create relevant content for them. The way that I did that, because I, I'm not a SaaS founder myself, Was getting those that, you know, have been in the trenches to create content and effectively put on that kind of like editor role for them. And then I took that content and the email list and the newsletter to, to start doing local meetups, right? Which I guess we're kind of still doing the grassroots stuff through sas.local, but, you know, enabling that a little bit more at scale.

AI assessment note: “First of all, it started with the content, the blog, then the podcast.”

Q And what is it, Alex? For people that don't know what founder membership is, what is it?

A So, but like, I'm sure the audience is familiar with like an EO or a YPO or, you know, basically support networks and organizations for founders. What we're doing is that for SaaS and effectively looking to build the world's leading support organization for B to B SaaS founders through mastermind groups, through networks, through events, right? And we, we take people out to great events. They have a great time. They meet their peers. They get unblocked from things that are, you know, have been blocking them for a while. They get out of their plateaus. They get inspired. Uh, and I think, I think it just kind of resonates and it's been helpful for people and like Alex and for Stefan Smulders, for instance, that are part of SFM, uh, you know, and then from that, because of, because of that, they get really bought into the value that it can help others like them. Right. And so I think they're just off of that mind. They got that pay it forward mindset.

AI assessment note: “What we're doing is that for SaaS and effectively looking to build the world's leading support organization”

Q So how do you convince these very smart? Like I see Christian and TechPond, you convince very smart people all around the world to be your local SaaS stock reps. How do you do that? How do you recruit people worldwide?

A Uh, it's a good question. I don't know. I just kind of, like, I meet these people. I seem to get on with them, and they, they seem to, I don't, we just seem to, like, get on. They're kind of, it's like our tribe, our people, and I mean, I find it, like, incredible sometimes that, like, people like Alex and TechPond, he's running his own business, but then he's going to, like, you know, all in on SassDoc. Even yesterday, he posted, he's got his car, and he's, he's put a big sticker on his car, like, SassDoc Local Bucharest, and he's driving around For the next month with SassDoc's logo on it. I'm like, what's going on here? But, uh, yeah, like, uh, somehow, you know, I don't know, maybe it's my secret sauce to, like, you know, get people to, like, bought into what we're doing. But I think it's like, maybe, maybe that's it, right? People are buying into the why. They're, they're getting value from it. They're enjoying the SassDoc events, right? The SassDoc founder membership event. So, like, Alex is part of the SassDoc founder membership. You know, we've taken him to Amalfi Coast.

AI assessment note: “People are buying into the why. They're, they're getting value from it. They're enjoying”

Q All right. Let's talk about 2022 first. Your flagship event is in Dublin, uh, obviously sasdoc.com. Looking back at 2022, sort of from your perspective as a conference organizer, what worked well, what didn't work well, and what changes are you testing or going to try here in 2023?

A Yeah, good question. Uh, I, I think, like, uh, the, the great thing about 20 22 was it was just our return to in-person, right? Sastoc was back after, well, almost a three-year hiatus, because the last one was in 2019. Uh, and then we had two years of COVID of doing, you know, a shitload of virtual conferences and, and, and webinars, right? So, um, it, it really benefited from that, um, you know, feel good feeling of everybody coming back to, to Sastoc. And there's a real like family, uh, and special entrepreneurial vibe, uh, at Sastoc. And a lot of people that have been to three, four, five, six Sastoc conferences, uh, and the fact that everybody could get back to Dublin and, and, and celebrate and be at that event

AI assessment note: “the great thing about 20 22 was it was just our return to in-person”

Q Did you learn, did you learn anything about those? I mean, the sponsor sales are what's key. It's basically your seed investment, like right at any event company, your sponsor paying upfront as a seed investment. Do you learn anything going from 30 to 60 in your first two years, just about selling sponsorships in general?

A Uh, I did, I did learn, um, you know, certainly the, it was a new sale for me, so I had to kind of really understand, you know, the value proposition, what, what it was that, you know, the customers were, were after, and obviously it was, it was very good, you know, from a cashflow perspective because we could, you know, sign up a partner like we did with ChartMogul, 12 months ahead of the event, you know, and get the cash in the bank, you know, 11 months ahead of the event, and that kind of really kind of helps you Build the business on, on customer revenue. Right. So, uh, definitely a strong model. Just trying to think like in terms of like the, the biggest learnings. Um, I mean, I think maybe it's just kind of like, um, wait Alex, let me be more specific.

AI assessment note: “I had to kind of really understand, you know, the value proposition”

Q Wait, so, so again, a lot, guys, I think a lot of you guys are SaaS founders listening, thinking about launching your own user conferences. There's a lot to learn here from Alex. So Alex, what were, what were those 30 can surprise costs you didn't anticipate?

A Uh, oh my God, the, the, the, the list is as long as my arm, like one big surprise cost actually was so I started sending selling sponsorships and my, my first two sponsorships was the first one was the chart mogul, uh, the second one. And I kind of pre-sold that one before the conference, cause Nick Franklin said, look, you know, if you do this conference, we'll sponsor it. Uh, and so as soon as I had a venue and, uh, as soon as I, I think I had the, the date, uh, Uh, before I had the website, I went to Nick and said, you said you were a sponsor and he did. He kind of put his money where his mouth was. Uh, it was like 15,000 euros, I think something like that, which is pretty good. Right. And this is placing a bet on somebody that's never done anything like before this before. So it's, it's a good bet when we went live, um, you know, surprise, surprise. The, the, the first person that kind of contacted me, uh, then was Patrick Campbell from profit. Well chart moguls competitor. Um, and we ended up doing the deal on Christmas Eve with, uh, uh, with PC. But, um, I'd sold all of these.

AI assessment note: “one big surprise cost actually was so I started sending selling sponsorships”