The Exchanges

Q Okay, and how do you, I mean, So I would say, okay, WebMD, right? That's what most people use. Why? I don't understand how you're better. How do you get personal information on me to make sure you give me better advice than I could get from WebMD?

A First of all, WebMD will be generic. What you do to use MetaVisor is you first create a medical profile on MetaVisor. So we answer, ask you about 10 questions about yourself and about five to 15 questions about each medical condition that you're coping with. So we actually know where you're at within your treatment journey, within the specifics of your medical condition. And we use that to figure out what of the 42,000 research papers that were published last year on diabetes, or the 1688 open interventional recruiting clinical trials for breast cancer would be irrelevant to a given patient. Now, WebMD doesn't do any of that, so there's some static information, and everybody that's looking for prostate cancer information will see exactly the same thing. In Medivisor, every person will get exactly what's relevant just for them.

AI assessment note: “you first create a medical profile on MetaVisor. So we answer, ask you about 10 questions”

Q That pattern recognition though is only as strong as the inputs you give it. So when a new company signs up for you, what access to their internal data set are they giving you that allows you to then become predictive for them?

A So we actually don't need them to give us any data. We sit today on 500, over five hundred million people globally that we've created golden records on. We aggregate data from over 2000, almost 2500 different sources now. Um, and all of that is built to aggregate the information that we need to do, we need to use to figure out how you map against the global talent pool. Um, when a company, however, signs up, they are absolutely able to say, hey, we want to plug in our applicant tracking system. You can look at all those records, but we as Sensia will also update all those records instantly for them and give them the intelligence on top of those records so they can search them in a more dynamic fashion.

AI assessment note: “So we actually don't need them to give us any data.”

Q Well, give me, I don't want to go down every customer cohort, but on average kind of what's the company pay you and other companies are interviewed in the space. They do all kinds of things like number of matches per year. And there's a SAS pricing. I mean, how do you price?

A Yeah, we have two models, both SAS one SAS based on seats. So Anyone can have unlimited search, 3500 bucks a year, seat model. Um, typically our clients are going to have over 10 recruiters. They're going to, it can sometimes rise all the way to 50 recruiters. They're going to have sourcers as well. Um, so we focus on companies that are enterprise size or hyper growth. So post series C, ABC. Um, the, the other option, or we have our second product, which is our premium solution, is a SaaS model based on number of roles, and that not only automates the sourcing, it automates sourcing the engagement and outreach to candidates, and then the coordination of the first interview.

AI assessment note: “we have two models, both SAS one SAS based on seats. So Anyone can have unlimited search, 3500 bucks a year”

Q Yep. So if someone's paying you 500 grand per year, or actually let's do your low rent, 250 grand per year, or about 20 grand a month, what do you need to look at when you're signing them up as a customer and how much gross merchandising value do they need to be doing for you to know that there's room to shave off 250 worth of cost savings?

A Well, we, we've been able to get a minimum of three percent top line sales, you know, so if you're a, If you're a hundred million dollar company, that means you're, we're, we're helping you generate three million in, in, in a new sales of which two thirds is cost of goods sold. So we would drive a million to the bottom line in that case. So a million there. We're getting paid two 50. That would be the kind of low end of ROI. So typically we're working in companies at the small end that are a hundred million. And most of our clients are kind of in the 1,000,000,002 billion dollar range. And then we have some really large clients who are, who are in the ten billion dollar plus range.

AI assessment note: “typically we're working in companies at the small end that are a hundred million”

Q Red Media. And so it was that a kind of a pure play agency or?

A No. So it, uh, so it was right media. It was the first online ad exchange, right? Just shaking up how buyers and sellers transacted media. Every platform has it now. You know, buying on a dynamic, you know, CPM model, not just your traditional CPM based. Um, so I, I got in there early on, ended up joining the international team there, grew it from, you know, zero to about two, uh, twenty million dollars in revenue. Yahoo came in, acquired the company, stayed there for a while, uh, on international team. They, they were like, Hey, moved, uh, London, Hong Kong, or Singapore, or to take a package. I took a package left. Thought I'd get rich by building a startup and flipping it to Facebook and, you know, five or six iterations later, here we are.

AI assessment note: “No. So it, uh, so it was right media. It was the first online ad exchange”

Q I like to call the folks in digital working in traditional journalism. You guys are the subsidizers in chief. Your revenue subsidizes the declining model, right? All right. Let's talk We Spire. What's the company doing? What's your revenue model? How do you make money?

A Sure. So we're an enterprise software as a service platform and large, uh, generally forward thinking companies are using our platform to essentially design, run, and measure the impact of employee engagement programs. Um, so we will go into a large company, um, and help them run their sustainability initiatives, their social impact initiatives, things like volunteering and community engagement, holistic wellbeing programs, meditation and mindfulness, physical health, um, family work life integration, And then most recently we launched positive workplace culture, which is a lot around diversity, equity, and inclusion, innovation, um, positive work, you know, belonging, psychological safety, all those kinds of things. The model is we get paid on a per employee per year basis. Um, so if they're running this program for every employee, there's a fee for every employee. If they're running it for a subset of employees, it's based on the number of employees. So very straightforward.

AI assessment note: “The model is we get paid on a per employee per year basis.”

Q Yeah. So a couple of quick questions here that I think other people will be curious about. And then I want to get more into your story and the book, um, uh, source of truth. I mean, is this just a web scraper that's hitting Airbnb or are there other sources you're pulling in?

A There's lots of sources, you know, it did start off as a scraper. Um, but then, you know, as we had all this great data, we were able to sign partnerships with other software providers. So we'll sign deals with that channel managers or large property managers. Uh, to help give us data and we'll give them some free data in exchange. Um, so, and we're starting to get data from individual users too. So you'll see a lot of things rolling out on the website where somebody can give us a, an iCal or their login credentials and in exchange, they'll get some free insights. And so we want to get data from as many channels and, and, and streams as possible.

AI assessment note: “There's lots of sources, you know, it did start off as a scraper.”

Q Good. That's very good to hear. All right. For people that are not familiar, just give us quick overview. What does user testing do and what's your revenue model? How do you make money?

A Sure. Well, we're a SaaS business, so we make money like most SaaS companies selling subscription software. What the platform really does is help companies connect directly with end users, customers, prospective customers to give feedback on their actual product and service. So you build an app or a website, you could use user testing to reach out and say, this is my, my demographic, my target audience. And then we give you rapid feedback. So most of the time in about two hours, You get a video back of your audience actually using your product and giving you real feedback on what it feels like to engage with your product or your service. And that's what we call human insight. Gives you empathetic, real feedback from a real person.

AI assessment note: “we're a SaaS business, so we make money like most SaaS companies selling subscription software.”

Q you joined first. You've been with them, you know, the company for over a decade. You joined first as in sales. You're now president. I want to pick up actually right at the Trello acquisition. So you mentioned with these guys, you know, you're running into them a hundred million active users. You both share the same goal. Why did that deal make a lot of sense for you guys?

A A couple reasons. I think, first of all, the, the two companies shared the same mission of, you know, really changing teamwork and unleashing the potential of, of what people are trying to do together at work. And, uh, I think had very similar cultures. And then there was like, just good product fit in the portfolio. If you think about what Trello is, Trello is, you know, sort of like a digital whiteboard where you can kind of rearrange cards on it. And at one end of, of the opposite spectrum is, is Jira, a product of ours that is very structured. Um, to manage collaborative project tracking management. And then the other end of that spectrum is a product of ours called Confluence, which is just a bank blank page teams can write on. So I think it kind of fits snugly in between very structured, very unstructured to help people do different things.

AI assessment note: “fits snugly in between very structured, very unstructured to help people do different things.”

Q So, okay. So walk me through this dynamic. You're, you're currently CEO, but it sounds like you're not the founder. What, what happened there?

A Well, so, uh, I was, uh, I was actually recruited to be the CEO in 2016. So the money, uh, that was put in, uh, the previous year was designed to, uh, to, to underwrite a U S expansion. So test IO originally is a, is a German company, uh, based in Berlin. Uh, but obviously the biggest market for software testing services is going to be in the U S because we develop a lot of software here. Uh, and so, uh, the board, uh, understood that it would be valuable to have somebody with some Silicon Valley or U S experience. And so that was the Auspices under which I was, I was hired. Uh, and the company didn't actually have a CEO at that time.

AI assessment note: “I was actually recruited to be the CEO in 2016.”

Q Yeah. Yeah. Interesting. Okay, good. So launched in 2012, obviously six months later today, what have you scaled to in terms of total customers on the platform now?

A So we're a bit over 200, um, enterprises on the, on the platform. Uh, most of those are UK, Australia. Uh, I think we have a handful of really, uh, really good clients in the US. We've been going in Austin for about six months now, um, and seen some really good pickup. Uh, so, And they're big brands like Progressive and, and, uh, Hotels.com and HomeAway and all of these, uh, sort of, sort of brands. So we're really impressed with both the color of the people we've got in Austin and the progress that they're making. Um, we've scaled, we'll hit, uh, a little bit north of, uh, ten million US dollars in ARR this year. Uh, we're growing. We grew 84% last year. We grow at a 115% this year on target. At the moment we're, uh, we're on target. Uh, and then we should organically do that again next year.

AI assessment note: “So we're a bit over 200, um, enterprises on the, on the platform.”

Q Yeah. So I want to dive deep into this and just highlight the fact that there are many people building great businesses with this model. You look at Sam part, the hustle, you look at a lot of people, it's just really email and kind of email only really. So case, take us back to day one. When'd you launch the company?

A Yeah. So I actually launched a pursuit like four years ago, but it was a traditional publisher, traditional online publisher focused on monetizing through programmatic advertising, direct buys, banner ads, right. Or maybe some native, uh, pivoted, uh, about a year ago, actually to the email only model. Obviously I think that's in line with a lot of what's going on in the digital publishing space. It's increasingly difficult to monetize given the, the nuances and the changes with Facebook, Instagram, Google, it could really screw you over. So I took this idea of, I didn't want to build my presence on rented land, as I call it, took a look at our assets, saw that email was very engaged, took a look at what Sam was doing at the hustle or what Alex and Austin are doing at the morning brew. And I love that concept. And I really wanted to focus on doing one thing and one thing, right? So just did a simple pivot and then started to host all of our content in a daily email.

AI assessment note: “I actually launched a pursuit like four years ago, but it was a traditional publisher”

Q right now, whether you're SAS company or anything, every, every brand is a media brand. And if you don't have some kind of your own channel, you're really screwed. So You're building something special here. I want to dive back into actually how you're doing it in a second, the machine that makes the spaghetti, but first talking about economics, I mean, how do you make money from this thing?

A Yeah, for sure. So right now we're, we're live with what I would say is one third of the monetization pizza pie here, which is advertisers. The other two would be digital products and events. That's really where we're scoping to go in the back half of this year. Right now, front half of the year, uh, and last year we're focused on brands. We've had over 40 in the past call it eight months. Authority brands and that's, it's sponsorships, right? It's a native sponsorship sponsored by logo and then a native editorial, which I write as well in my voice, in the same voice of the content. They pay us, uh, call it a CPM. It's really a CPV cost per 1000 opens. Uh, it's a pretty competitive rate. It's a nice rate.

AI assessment note: “one third of the monetization pizza pie here, which is advertisers.”

Q Tell me more about Priceyak. On the website, you say, automating dropship arbitrage for eBay sellers, repricing, will fill your dropship orders automatically. What's that mean?

A Yeah. So if you're familiar with dropship arbitrage, it's basically this mechanism of being a marketplace seller without actually having the inventory that you're selling. You just kind of know where to get it. And so our software automates that whole process. We help you list items from other marketplaces. So one common example is Amazon to eBay. eBay has 1,000,010 of millions of products. Amazon has hundreds of millions of products. Some of those are mispriced. And so you can take advantage of that price arbitrage by using our software to list something from Amazon on eBay without actually owning it. And we do the full stack of all the stuff that could be automated, which is cross listing stuff, uh, repricing it when it changes price on Amazon. We change the price on eBay and actually fulfilling the order. That's kind of the coolest part is, is the automatic order. And we place like 20 to 25,000 orders a day on Amazon.

AI assessment note: “our software automates that whole process. We help you list items from other marketplaces.”

Q A thousand customers is obviously, you know, difficult to get all those folks signed up. I assume you're doing some interesting things around customer acquisition. What's a growth channel you're using that might not be typical?

A Yeah. So a surprising one here is that, um, I mean, we, we've kind of exhausted this one a little bit, but to get contact info, we can basically identify anybody who's dropshipping on eBay, um, through certain mechanisms that we have. The hardest part is getting the actual contact info for them. So for a while you're actually just buying stuff from eBay from almost every seller. And we would, you know, our office was basically filled with junk. We threw a couple office parties where we just gave away lots of stuff and it would be like the cheapest thing from that seller. Um, but that way we get their contact info. We could call them up and say, Hey, we know you're drop shipping. Uh, you know, you should use our software. So it's kind of an interesting tactic. Another one is that we, um, my co-founder like four years ago posted an answer to a stack overflow question about like, how can I automatically order from Amazon? And we have, you know, the top rated answer there is like, you can't do it. And then he commented on, it's like, actually you can with our software and we get a ton of inbound from that. It's like pretty surprising.

AI assessment note: “for a while you're actually just buying stuff from eBay from almost every seller”

Q Okay. So this is all great, but we haven't talked about one big thing and that office behind you is not free in San Francisco. How do you make money?

A So it's a freemium business model. Uh, so the vast majority of our users use the product for free, uh, and have a great product experience. We have an ads model to help offset the costs of that for the free users. And then we have subscription products that are very low price subscriptions for both students and teachers that upgrade you into more features. So, uh, our Quizlet plus product, which is our most popular student product is 20 dollars a year. That's a year, not a month. So less than two dollars a month. And with that, you get more advanced features. Obviously you get ads free, you get offline on our mobile apps. But you also get some advanced creation features that allow you to create and customize the content a little bit more towards you. And then we also have a teacher offering that's 35 dollars a year that includes all of those features and gives the teachers some additional, uh, statistics tracking and, and allows them to organize their students into classes and that sort of thing.

AI assessment note: “So it's a freemium business model. Uh, so the vast majority of our users”

Q I didn't hear you. I was just saying, now that we understand your sales model in terms of the touch you're putting on these sales, what's your fully weighted customer acquisition cost?

A So at the moment, we're running at just over 4700 dollars on the CAC, um, and that's pretty high based on where we've come from, and that's really down to the fact that when I look at the way I acquire customers, historically, Bright Pearl built its business on inbound, which, as you guys know, is very expensive. We activated partners as a channel eight months ago, once the AOV started getting to a point where it was relevant to the partners we wanted to work with. And I'm just about to launch, uh, an assertive outbound campaign. So identifying my ideal customer pro profile at scale, and then feeding that in, looking for triggers or buying signals automatically, and then figuring that into the sales team. And that's how I'm going to drive down that CAC to the target is to get it to about 18, 1900 dollars, which would be the range for this, uh, for this segment.

AI assessment note: “we're running at just over 4700 dollars on the CAC”

Q in the meantime, give your team everything they need to be more productive and focus on the work that grows your business. Try Asana free for 30 days. You can get started now at NathanLatka.com forward slash Asana. That's NathanLatka.com forward slash A-S-A-N-A. Okay, so, twenty-fifteen you launched, uh, you get, sorry, 20, I think, yeah, twenty-twelve you get started on this. Have you decided to bootstrap or raise capital?

A So we ended up raising a bunch of capital. Uh, we did our first round. Uh, well, we did a couple of rounds. We did an angel round of 300,000. We did a seed round of just over two million. And then, uh, we actually had a leadership change. So our investors brought in a CEO to come in and run the company for a couple of years. And in that time when we had a different CEO here, there was another six million put into the business. So over eight million in total, uh, that we had raised. Uh, however, the CEO did not work out. So he, We had him exit the business. I came back at the end of 20 16, and at that point, we made the decision to become more of a profitable company. So now we're operating breakeven. We'll turn to profitability in the next couple months, and it's a whole different way of operating.

AI assessment note: “So we ended up raising a bunch of capital.”

Q And how is this? Tell me about the SAS version. How's it work?

A So it's called PrestaShop ready. It's a brand new offer, uh, launched in the market. So we will extend in Europe first and then worldwide. And the objective is to, uh, make it simple for, for newcomers on e-commerce. So we are targeting, um, Really non-tech savvy merchants with low technical resources, with an affordable offer, 20 euro per month for the starter offer, uh, fully localized, and especially in Europe with the right shipping and payment solutions. And, um, we will make it open. What does it mean open for SAS? It means that we will enable data liberation to migrate from PrestaShop ready to PrestaShop download, which is our on-premise solution as a continuum. So once you will feel that you need more customization, more freedom, You will be able to, um, to migrate to the open source and on-premise version of PrestaShop so that you can continue your developments on PrestaShop.

AI assessment note: “So it's called PrestaShop ready. It's a brand new offer”

Q Yeah. And walk me through how that works. So, like, what was the valuation, and is it just one kind of thing that you've let open and let it roll, or what?

A Yeah, we've done a few different funding rounds. Uh, so when we started, we had a five million dollar valuation. Then we had a ten million dollar valuation. And most recently, uh, we're raising five million dollars at a thirty two million dollar valuation based on the progress that we've made. And so if you looked at a 48 month graph of the company, which is how old we are, uh, we've raised a little bit over 200,000 dollars per month from physicians just through crowdfunding and LinkedIn advertising. And so instead of having One venture capital firm, we thought, what if we made it more of a grassroots movement of physicians that want to improve healthcare with technology, but can also, uh, act as medical advisors. So, uh, we've done different price equity rounds based on our progress.

AI assessment note: “we started, we had a five million dollar valuation. Then we had a ten million”

Q And is the platform, I mean, is it a SaaS platform or no, not really?

A It was a SaaS platform in the beginning, last time we spoke. Where we were licensing it for 200 dollars a month, and doctors and dieticians could use it with their patients. What we ultimately realized is that that was a really challenging model, even though it sounds attractive and high margin, because the customers that were licensing the software were struggling to get reimbursed from the health insurance for telemedicine visits, and they were struggling with how do they sign up customers. And so what we realized is that we had the perfect program for Uh, you know, lifestyle modification program, and that's when we pivoted into working with the commercial health plan. So right now, we, you know, Solera enrolls patients from these health plans and sends us a file every day that says, here's the patients that picked Fruit Tree. Then we're reimbursed, 345 dollars and 60 cents per patient for the program, where we get, uh, one payment when the patient signs up, at which point they get a free wireless scale, another payment at week four, at which point they get a Fitbit at no cost, Another payment at week nine. And then the final payment's based on five percent weight loss. So we have all these data pipes set up that report things like, wait, how many pictures of food did they take? Did they use their Fitbit? Did they text message their dietician? And, uh, we get paid every Frida…

AI assessment note: “It was a SaaS platform in the beginning, last time we spoke.”

Q six percent of whatever my fat, right? I, I, I get slimmer, right? Uh, but you know, cause you have the tracking in place that I haven't watched any of the videos and I only logged on three times. That still counts in your data set. You can actually take credit for that and get your payouts for it, but there's not a direct correlation. How do you manage that?

A Yeah. So actually we would not get paid in that case. So for example, Uh, those four milestones, week one, week four, week nine, five percent weight loss, we can't earn the payment for five percent weight loss until we meet the requirements for week four and week nine. For example, for the second milestone, it's not just that they attended four weeks. They actually have to have been meaningfully engaged. So what that means is that they did two out of the following six things in a week. They took five pictures of their food. They weighed themselves three times. They text messaged a coach, report physical activity, watch a video, or read an article. So they actually have to be engaged so that it is kind of You know, attributed to us. Um, it can't just be that like, okay, they have a scale and they're weighing themselves and they lost the weight on their own. I see.

AI assessment note: “So actually we would not get paid in that case.”

Q That's great. I mean, that you're actually, I mean, you're modest or you're humble, but that's actually a pretty healthy scale that quickly. So, I mean, how have you added these customers so quickly?

A So at the beginning it was, we did a launch event here in Scottsdale, Arizona, where we are, invited everybody that we knew and tried to scale through our local networks, blasted everyone on LinkedIn, that sort of thing. Um, then we did a product hunt launch. So we had that experience of, uh, of, of getting some, uh, some press there. Uh, we launched an affiliate model. So we've got just over 300 affiliates that have helped up, helped us, uh, sell the product. Uh, and then we started our paid ads. So in Q two, we started doing testing with Uh, different advertising on LinkedIn and Google and Facebook and Instagram. And we got our model down to where we thought it was pretty scalable and then started pumping money in, in Q three.

AI assessment note: “we launched an affiliate model. So we've got just over 300 affiliates that have helped”

Q Yep. And, and your model, so what, how are you making money in that model and when did you shift it to more SaaS?

A So we've had a number of iterations. So we started out as performance. Now I would still class performance as SaaS for us, because having done that for kind of three, four years in the early days, we understood seasonality down to an art, meaning that we understood What to expect from a client depend on their sale cycle, excuse the pun. So that was fairly predictable. However, taking something then to a blend of a base fee, which allows us to talk about servicing, allowed us to talk about the implementation fees, the costs that go with it, and then applying a performance fee on top was our second iteration. And now we've moved into a 100% flat fee model, which again matches with the same kind of fees people would have been paying us on average, but it smooths it out rather than making it choppy, I guess.

AI assessment note: “we started out as performance... second iteration... moved into a 100% flat fee model”

Q John, how are you? I want to understand your magic here. Why doesn't Google just say we're going to, you know, crush you like a cockroach and build this thing ourselves?

A Well, Google's focused on really two things right now. Number one is infrastructure. So that's Google Cloud Platform, right? They're going after the hundred billion dollar opportunity that AWS has, is leading today. That is where their primary focus is. The second focus is really on productivity, right? Building email, building docs, building slides, building sheets. And that is today where they exist, the application stack, and they've chosen to partner at the business application level. So whether that's Uh, with CRM, whether that's with your, with, um, uh, your accounting software, whether that's with your document signature area, they've chosen to partner with people like ProsperWorks. They've chosen ProsperWorks as sort of the most Google-y of the CRM solutions, which is why we're the recommended CRM by Google.

AI assessment note: “they've chosen to partner at the business application level”

Q Yeah, um, interesting. Okay, good. Tell us more about the backstory here. So what year did you launch the company in?

A So we launched the company in the beginning of 2014, and the story is that I was a chief security officer at the Guild Group. And one day we were looking at a, uh, solution that helped mitigate e-commerce fraud. It was a software as a service that helped mitigate e-commerce fraud. It would look and say, hey, Nathan today is logging in from New York buying 200 dollars worth of clothes, but all of a sudden you in Austin, Texas buying a thousand dollars. Something is suspicious. And so it was a very good solution, and we had to integrate our systems with that. And we looked at the contract, we looked at the penetration test results, everything looked great. And literally at the last moment when we started integrating with that company, uh, we looked at their systems and we discovered unencrypted credit card data floating in their systems. And that was an oh shit moment for me because I realized I could lose my job as a chief security officer due to negligence of somebody else. And, um, the question, uh, really, uh, Stood out to me the question that nobody in the market is thinking about how to measure security. There's got to be a way to come up with objective metrics that measure cybersecurity. And that's what we came up with. And we launched the company in 2014, spent most of 20 14 building a product and saw some very good adoption since then.

AI assessment note: “we launched the company in the beginning of 2014, and the story is”

Q All right. So tell us what you do and how you make money. Is it a pure play SAS model?

A Yeah, so we're an enterprise SaaS company, and the idea that we came up with is that the market is moving to the cloud, and so companies do business with other cloud companies. You might store your files in Dropbox, you might store your sales leads in Salesforce, and when companies do all these relationships, how do you know that your cloud providers are being as diligent as you are when it comes to protecting your data? And we came up with a way of how to, non-intrusively from outside, measure a security posture of any company in the world, and give them a scorecard, a rating, or a letter grade, A, B, C, D, F, representing how secure they are.

AI assessment note: “we're an enterprise SaaS company, and the idea that we came up with”

Q Okay. That's fair. And so you're trying really hard to hold out, but something gave way. You had to raise a couple million. When was that? What year? And why'd you raise?

A So we went for one year with no salary, put a little bit of money in no raise. We, and then we decided that every half year we would meet as a management team. And talk about whether we should raise our, our businesses is very capital intensive. Um, we, we have to buy storage servers and hard drives for all of our customer data. And at this point we are storing about half as much data as Dropbox. So it's, it's a huge amount of infrastructure. And so we have to pay for that somehow. And so we, we raised a small 350 K round, uh, in the 2009. From friend and family angel type people, including the co-founder of VMware, um, the head of AdWords engineering at Google, um, some other friends and family. And that was the only funding for the first five years of the company. In 2012, we decided to raise around, uh, we took two and a half million into the company and from a company called TMT investments, And the reasons we did that were a couple fold. Uh, one was that, um, at that point, the company was doing millions in revenue, had a lot of customers that depended on us, and we were still operating in much of the same way that we had originally, which is spending every single dollar that came in on either servers or salaries. And so we had no money in the bank account at any given time. And the thing that came closest to putting us out of business in all 10 years was actually a flood …

AI assessment note: “In 2012, we decided to raise around, uh, we took two and a half million”

Q But what cohort do you guys cater to now? Is it more enterprise? You're selling big seat deals. I mean, tell me more about that.

A So, um, I'd say majority of our subscriptions are still, um, In, um, you know, a little bit below 200 per month. So it's, it's still very affordable. Um, and obviously you need like bigger subscription when you start using more software, but yet again, everything is super fair. You pay more only if you use more. Um, but you know, on the other side, we have huge accounts, uh, that, that I approach in half a million per year. So It's, it's, you know, one of the stories where we have presence in, in, uh, SMB segments with mom and pop shops, with bloggers, and then we have, uh, seven out of top 10 world biggest advertisers. We have 25% of Fortune, 500. So it's, it's really, I like, I like the Dropbox analogy because, um, I think this is the same kind of solution company of any size can benefit from it.

AI assessment note: “we have presence in, in, uh, SMB segments... and then we have... 25% of Fortune, 500”

Q Yep. Yep. 500 per month, and these are typically, I mean, why will someone pay 500 versus 1500? Are you upselling yourself number of seats, or a feature set, or some combination?

A Yeah, it's some combination. I mean, it's based on a, on a seat, like, user basis. Um, there's different tools, and there's different features that customers will buy from us if they require additional security, or additional SLAs, additional, um, customer support, et cetera, et cetera. Uh, also, like, with the likes of, say, Perforce, um, that's a, that's a, That's a paid licensing tool proprietary to per force. So there's licensing costs around that. And lastly, if you look at the, the, the key specific customer requirement around performance, if they're pushing larger file sizes, if they've got compliance issues or compliance requirements or security requirements, we can get into sort of dedicated solutions for those guys around private cloud or in single instance. And then geospecific stuff. So if, if you've got a gaming studio, say in Australia, uh, their, their performance is not going to be great if they're, if they're hosting on our infrastructure in AWS and San Fran. So we'll fire them up local instances in Sydney or local instances and wherever they are, you know?

AI assessment note: “Yeah, it's some combination. I mean, it's based on a, on a seat”