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Aug 20, 2016 · 27m · top-founders

EP 392: 3M Publishers Use Issu, 100,000 Have Paid with CEO Joe Hyrkin

Joe Hyrkin · 15m spoken Nathan Latka · 9m spoken
0:00 / 0:00

gold bands on the timeline = statements, start to end. Hover to read, click to jump. CC turns on captions

In this episode of The Top, host Nathan Latka interviews Joe Hyrkin, CEO of Issuu, exploring how the digital publishing platform scaled to over 3 million creators, 100,000 paying customers, and highly efficient SaaS unit economics with sub-2% monthly churn.

How this conversation actually went

Every chapter scored 0–10 on four independent dynamics. Hover any point for the reasoning behind the score. Nathan holds 37.7% of the talking time here. How this is scored →

Nathan as informed peer 4.6 Guest teaching 2.0 Guest disagreement 1.4 Nathan pushing back 3.4
05100:0010:0020:001:46–7:30 · Nathan as informed peer 5/10 Issuu's Core Product and Dual Revenue Streams Nathan cuts through Joe's generic overview and deflection regarding publisher metrics to demand a specific count of paying customers. Joe yields and reveals the roughly 100,000 paid user milestone.7:30–9:44 · Nathan as informed peer 5/10 Revenue Breakdown, Pricing Tiers, and ARPU Nathan presses for top-line revenue numbers and pricing tier distributions. Joe provides the SaaS percentage breakdown and clarifies that most users are on the $35 core tier.9:45–12:40 · Nathan as informed peer 6/10 Retention Rates, Low Churn, and Workflow Tools Nathan tests Joe on churn dynamics and negative net revenue expansion mechanics. Joe clarifies that churn is sub-2% monthly gross customer churn and explains the new tier is workflow-driven rather than an artificial upsell play.12:40–14:44 · Nathan as informed peer 4/10 Fundraising History and Strategic Capital Management Nathan puts Joe in a false binary corner asking whether they are actively fundraising or selling the company. Joe pushes back directly, questioning if anyone ever answers that, before explaining his capital optionality philosophy.14:44–18:04 · Nathan as informed peer 7/10 Global Team Distribution and Efficient Unit Economics Nathan demonstrates strong SaaS fluency by pushing Joe on fully loaded CAC and instantly calculating payback periods and average customer lifetime from the 2% monthly churn rate.18:04–20:16 · Nathan as informed peer 3/10 Mission, Social Impact, and Exploring Audio Formats The conversation shifts into an agreeable discussion about Joe's personal motivation in digital publishing and the potential overlap with audio and podcasting formats.20:19–25:50 · Nathan as informed peer 2/10 Sponsor Message and Austin Live Event Promotion Nathan transitions through sponsor messages and Austin live event promotions into the standard Famous Five rapid-fire closing questions with friendly rapport.1:46–7:30 · Guest teaching 2/10 Issuu's Core Product and Dual Revenue Streams Nathan cuts through Joe's generic overview and deflection regarding publisher metrics to demand a specific count of paying customers. Joe yields and reveals the roughly 100,000 paid user milestone.7:30–9:44 · Guest teaching 2/10 Revenue Breakdown, Pricing Tiers, and ARPU Nathan presses for top-line revenue numbers and pricing tier distributions. Joe provides the SaaS percentage breakdown and clarifies that most users are on the $35 core tier.9:45–12:40 · Guest teaching 3/10 Retention Rates, Low Churn, and Workflow Tools Nathan tests Joe on churn dynamics and negative net revenue expansion mechanics. Joe clarifies that churn is sub-2% monthly gross customer churn and explains the new tier is workflow-driven rather than an artificial upsell play.12:40–14:44 · Guest teaching 3/10 Fundraising History and Strategic Capital Management Nathan puts Joe in a false binary corner asking whether they are actively fundraising or selling the company. Joe pushes back directly, questioning if anyone ever answers that, before explaining his capital optionality philosophy.14:44–18:04 · Guest teaching 2/10 Global Team Distribution and Efficient Unit Economics Nathan demonstrates strong SaaS fluency by pushing Joe on fully loaded CAC and instantly calculating payback periods and average customer lifetime from the 2% monthly churn rate.18:04–20:16 · Guest teaching 1/10 Mission, Social Impact, and Exploring Audio Formats The conversation shifts into an agreeable discussion about Joe's personal motivation in digital publishing and the potential overlap with audio and podcasting formats.20:19–25:50 · Guest teaching 1/10 Sponsor Message and Austin Live Event Promotion Nathan transitions through sponsor messages and Austin live event promotions into the standard Famous Five rapid-fire closing questions with friendly rapport.1:46–7:30 · Guest disagreement 2/10 Issuu's Core Product and Dual Revenue Streams Nathan cuts through Joe's generic overview and deflection regarding publisher metrics to demand a specific count of paying customers. Joe yields and reveals the roughly 100,000 paid user milestone.7:30–9:44 · Guest disagreement 1/10 Revenue Breakdown, Pricing Tiers, and ARPU Nathan presses for top-line revenue numbers and pricing tier distributions. Joe provides the SaaS percentage breakdown and clarifies that most users are on the $35 core tier.9:45–12:40 · Guest disagreement 2/10 Retention Rates, Low Churn, and Workflow Tools Nathan tests Joe on churn dynamics and negative net revenue expansion mechanics. Joe clarifies that churn is sub-2% monthly gross customer churn and explains the new tier is workflow-driven rather than an artificial upsell play.12:40–14:44 · Guest disagreement 4/10 Fundraising History and Strategic Capital Management Nathan puts Joe in a false binary corner asking whether they are actively fundraising or selling the company. Joe pushes back directly, questioning if anyone ever answers that, before explaining his capital optionality philosophy.14:44–18:04 · Guest disagreement 1/10 Global Team Distribution and Efficient Unit Economics Nathan demonstrates strong SaaS fluency by pushing Joe on fully loaded CAC and instantly calculating payback periods and average customer lifetime from the 2% monthly churn rate.18:04–20:16 · Guest disagreement 0/10 Mission, Social Impact, and Exploring Audio Formats The conversation shifts into an agreeable discussion about Joe's personal motivation in digital publishing and the potential overlap with audio and podcasting formats.20:19–25:50 · Guest disagreement 0/10 Sponsor Message and Austin Live Event Promotion Nathan transitions through sponsor messages and Austin live event promotions into the standard Famous Five rapid-fire closing questions with friendly rapport.1:46–7:30 · Nathan pushing back 6/10 Issuu's Core Product and Dual Revenue Streams Nathan cuts through Joe's generic overview and deflection regarding publisher metrics to demand a specific count of paying customers. Joe yields and reveals the roughly 100,000 paid user milestone.7:30–9:44 · Nathan pushing back 4/10 Revenue Breakdown, Pricing Tiers, and ARPU Nathan presses for top-line revenue numbers and pricing tier distributions. Joe provides the SaaS percentage breakdown and clarifies that most users are on the $35 core tier.9:45–12:40 · Nathan pushing back 4/10 Retention Rates, Low Churn, and Workflow Tools Nathan tests Joe on churn dynamics and negative net revenue expansion mechanics. Joe clarifies that churn is sub-2% monthly gross customer churn and explains the new tier is workflow-driven rather than an artificial upsell play.12:40–14:44 · Nathan pushing back 6/10 Fundraising History and Strategic Capital Management Nathan puts Joe in a false binary corner asking whether they are actively fundraising or selling the company. Joe pushes back directly, questioning if anyone ever answers that, before explaining his capital optionality philosophy.14:44–18:04 · Nathan pushing back 4/10 Global Team Distribution and Efficient Unit Economics Nathan demonstrates strong SaaS fluency by pushing Joe on fully loaded CAC and instantly calculating payback periods and average customer lifetime from the 2% monthly churn rate.18:04–20:16 · Nathan pushing back 0/10 Mission, Social Impact, and Exploring Audio Formats The conversation shifts into an agreeable discussion about Joe's personal motivation in digital publishing and the potential overlap with audio and podcasting formats.20:19–25:50 · Nathan pushing back 0/10 Sponsor Message and Austin Live Event Promotion Nathan transitions through sponsor messages and Austin live event promotions into the standard Famous Five rapid-fire closing questions with friendly rapport.

speaking balance: gold is Nathan, purple is the guest (3 minute bins)

0:00 · Nathan 53.9% · guest 46.1%0:00 · Nathan 53.9% · guest 46.1%3:00 · Nathan 12.9% · guest 87.1%3:00 · Nathan 12.9% · guest 87.1%6:00 · Nathan 39.7% · guest 60.3%6:00 · Nathan 39.7% · guest 60.3%9:00 · Nathan 25.7% · guest 74.3%9:00 · Nathan 25.7% · guest 74.3%12:00 · Nathan 21.5% · guest 78.5%12:00 · Nathan 21.5% · guest 78.5%15:00 · Nathan 26.8% · guest 73.2%15:00 · Nathan 26.8% · guest 73.2%18:00 · Nathan 37.2% · guest 62.8%18:00 · Nathan 37.2% · guest 62.8%21:00 · Nathan 54.7% · guest 45.3%21:00 · Nathan 54.7% · guest 45.3%24:00 · Nathan 54.8% · guest 45.2%24:00 · Nathan 54.8% · guest 45.2%27:00 · Nathan 100% · guest 0%27:00 · Nathan 100% · guest 0%
Sharpest disagreement ▶ 13:11 Guest rejects binary question on funding vs acquisition

Joe directly laughs off and dismisses Nathan's attempt to force him into admitting whether Issuu is currently raising money or up for sale.

 Hardest push from Nathan ▶ 6:09 Host refuses vague response and demands paying customer count

Nathan cuts across Joe's deflection about various pricing plans and insists on a concrete figure for how many unique credit cards have paid for the product.

 Biggest teaching moment ▶ 10:31 Guest educates host on workflow value vs upsell engineering

Joe reframes Nathan's assumption about launching higher tiers purely to manufacture negative churn, detailing how flat planning and collaboration solve real publisher workflow problems.

 Nathan holds their own ▶ 17:08 Host performs instant mental math on SaaS unit economics

Nathan rapidly models out the company's 1-month CAC payback period and inverts the 2% gross churn figure to deduce an average customer lifetime of 50 months.
the scores for every segment, with the reasoning behind each
ChapterTopicNathan as informed peerGuest teachingGuest disagreementNathan pushing backWhy
Issuu's Core Product and Dual Revenue Streams 5226 Nathan cuts through Joe's generic overview and deflection regarding publisher metrics to demand a specific count of paying customers. Joe yields and reveals the roughly 100,000 paid user milestone.
Revenue Breakdown, Pricing Tiers, and ARPU 5214 Nathan presses for top-line revenue numbers and pricing tier distributions. Joe provides the SaaS percentage breakdown and clarifies that most users are on the $35 core tier.
Retention Rates, Low Churn, and Workflow Tools 6324 Nathan tests Joe on churn dynamics and negative net revenue expansion mechanics. Joe clarifies that churn is sub-2% monthly gross customer churn and explains the new tier is workflow-driven rather than an artificial upsell play.
Fundraising History and Strategic Capital Management 4346 Nathan puts Joe in a false binary corner asking whether they are actively fundraising or selling the company. Joe pushes back directly, questioning if anyone ever answers that, before explaining his capital optionality philosophy.
Global Team Distribution and Efficient Unit Economics 7214 Nathan demonstrates strong SaaS fluency by pushing Joe on fully loaded CAC and instantly calculating payback periods and average customer lifetime from the 2% monthly churn rate.
Mission, Social Impact, and Exploring Audio Formats 3100 The conversation shifts into an agreeable discussion about Joe's personal motivation in digital publishing and the potential overlap with audio and podcasting formats.
Sponsor Message and Austin Live Event Promotion 2100 Nathan transitions through sponsor messages and Austin live event promotions into the standard Famous Five rapid-fire closing questions with friendly rapport.

Statements from this episode (12)

Assertion Not checkable as stated
Joe Hyrkin: Freemium Publisher SaaS Is Issuu's Primary Revenue Driver
“From a revenue perspective, we have two key product lines. The first is A set of tools and data analytics that publishers use to digitally distribute and monetize their content, meaning they're able to use the tools and services that Issue provides so that the…”
Joe Hyrkin Aug 20, 2016 ▶ 2:12
Assertion Not checkable as stated
Hyrkin: Over 3 million publishers have used Issuu
“So we have over three million publishers that have used issue.”
Joe Hyrkin Aug 20, 2016 ▶ 5:40
Assertion Not checkable as stated
Hyrkin: Close to 100,000 publishers have paid Issuu
“Close to a 100,000.”
Joe Hyrkin Aug 20, 2016 ▶ 6:35
Assertion Not checkable as stated
Hyrkin: About 90% of Issuu's revenue comes from SaaS subscriptions
“About 90% of our revenue is, is SAS. Advertising makes up a much smaller percentage.”
Joe Hyrkin Aug 20, 2016 ▶ 7:56
Assertion Not checkable as stated
Hyrkin: Core Issuu publishers subscribe to the $35 per month plan
“The core of our of our publishers are in that that, that's 35 dollar a month range.”
Joe Hyrkin Aug 20, 2016 ▶ 8:31
Assertion Not checkable as stated
Hyrkin: Issuu's monthly gross customer churn is under 2%
“It's kind of in the, it's under two percent a month.”
Joe Hyrkin Aug 20, 2016 ▶ 10:03
Insight
Hyrkin: Tech platforms moved publishing's center of gravity to the West Coast
“Really the publishing and content business, the center of gravity is shifted dramatically to the west coast because that's where access to content is being made available on platforms like Facebook and Snapchat and others.”
Joe Hyrkin Aug 20, 2016 ▶ 12:16
Assertion Supported
Hyrkin: Issuu has raised $21M in total funding
“We've raised 20, twenty-one million dollars so far.”
Joe Hyrkin Aug 20, 2016 ▶ 12:46
Disclosure
Hyrkin: Issuu has about 60 employees across three global offices
“We've got about 60 people between Palo Alto, Copenhagen, and Berlin.”
Joe Hyrkin Aug 20, 2016 ▶ 14:48
Disclosure
Hyrkin: Issuu spends $10,000 to $15,000 monthly on marketing
“So we hardly spend anything on marketing. We literally spend in the 10 to 15,000 dollar a month range. For marketing.”
Joe Hyrkin Aug 20, 2016 ▶ 15:30
Disclosure
Hyrkin: Issuu customer acquisition cost is $30 to $50
“If you throw a whole bunch of things into it beyond just the 10 dollars, if we throw marketing budgets... Everything else and all that stuff, you know, we're you know, we're kind of in the 30, 40, 50 buck range.”
Joe Hyrkin Aug 20, 2016 ▶ 16:51
Assertion Supported
Hyrkin: Issuu hosts 30 million publications on its platform
“We've got the thirty million publications that cover topics that inspire and motivate and excite people every minute of every day.”
Joe Hyrkin Aug 20, 2016 ▶ 18:43
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