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Aug 29, 2016 · 21m · top-founders

EP 401: Quit $180k Microsoft Job to Launch Own Startup with KarmaCircles CEO Deepak Goel

Nathan Latka · 9m spoken Deepak Goel · 8m spoken
0:00 / 0:00

gold bands on the timeline = statements, start to end. Hover to read, click to jump. CC turns on captions

In episode 401 of The Top podcast, host Nathan Latka interviews KarmaCircles founder Deepak Goel to examine the economics, lean operations, and pay-it-forward philosophy of his micro-mentoring platform. The conversation explores enterprise SaaS pricing versus free pilots, offshore engineering efficiency, and the long-term value of selfless professional networking.

How this conversation actually went

Every chapter scored 0–10 on four independent dynamics. Hover any point for the reasoning behind the score. Nathan holds 53.6% of the talking time here. How this is scored →

Nathan as informed peer 5.3 Guest teaching 3.5 Guest disagreement 3.5 Nathan pushing back 5.0
05100:0010:0020:001:07–7:47 · Nathan as informed peer 7/10 Introducing Deepak Goel and the KarmaCircles Concept Nathan aggressively challenges Deepak's rationale for offering free pilots rather than charging immediately, arguing that verbal willingness to pay without a credit card charge is a classic founder illusion. Deepak defends his strategy calmly, emphasizing user retention and habit formation over premature low-dollar monetization.7:47–10:08 · Nathan as informed peer 5/10 Market Sizing, Target Organizations, and Potential Enterprise Valuation Nathan questions whether KarmaCircles has a large enough total addressable market to become a substantial business. Deepak counters by comparing their market opportunity to Yammer's enterprise model and its one-billion-dollar acquisition valuation.10:08–13:18 · Nathan as informed peer 5/10 Angel Investment, Low-Cost Indian Tech Team, and Product Quality The conversation shifts to funding and unit economics, where Nathan is impressed by Deepak's low burn rate of three thousand dollars a month for a five-person offshore engineering team in India.13:20–19:11 · Nathan as informed peer 4/10 Sponsor Message: HostGator Hosting and Austin Live Conference Announcement Nathan contrasts his unapologetically transactional mindset with Deepak's philosophy of giving advice freely for long-term goodwill before transitioning into the Famous Five and corporate background questions.1:07–7:47 · Guest teaching 3/10 Introducing Deepak Goel and the KarmaCircles Concept Nathan aggressively challenges Deepak's rationale for offering free pilots rather than charging immediately, arguing that verbal willingness to pay without a credit card charge is a classic founder illusion. Deepak defends his strategy calmly, emphasizing user retention and habit formation over premature low-dollar monetization.7:47–10:08 · Guest teaching 6/10 Market Sizing, Target Organizations, and Potential Enterprise Valuation Nathan questions whether KarmaCircles has a large enough total addressable market to become a substantial business. Deepak counters by comparing their market opportunity to Yammer's enterprise model and its one-billion-dollar acquisition valuation.10:08–13:18 · Guest teaching 3/10 Angel Investment, Low-Cost Indian Tech Team, and Product Quality The conversation shifts to funding and unit economics, where Nathan is impressed by Deepak's low burn rate of three thousand dollars a month for a five-person offshore engineering team in India.13:20–19:11 · Guest teaching 2/10 Sponsor Message: HostGator Hosting and Austin Live Conference Announcement Nathan contrasts his unapologetically transactional mindset with Deepak's philosophy of giving advice freely for long-term goodwill before transitioning into the Famous Five and corporate background questions.1:07–7:47 · Guest disagreement 4/10 Introducing Deepak Goel and the KarmaCircles Concept Nathan aggressively challenges Deepak's rationale for offering free pilots rather than charging immediately, arguing that verbal willingness to pay without a credit card charge is a classic founder illusion. Deepak defends his strategy calmly, emphasizing user retention and habit formation over premature low-dollar monetization.7:47–10:08 · Guest disagreement 5/10 Market Sizing, Target Organizations, and Potential Enterprise Valuation Nathan questions whether KarmaCircles has a large enough total addressable market to become a substantial business. Deepak counters by comparing their market opportunity to Yammer's enterprise model and its one-billion-dollar acquisition valuation.10:08–13:18 · Guest disagreement 2/10 Angel Investment, Low-Cost Indian Tech Team, and Product Quality The conversation shifts to funding and unit economics, where Nathan is impressed by Deepak's low burn rate of three thousand dollars a month for a five-person offshore engineering team in India.13:20–19:11 · Guest disagreement 3/10 Sponsor Message: HostGator Hosting and Austin Live Conference Announcement Nathan contrasts his unapologetically transactional mindset with Deepak's philosophy of giving advice freely for long-term goodwill before transitioning into the Famous Five and corporate background questions.1:07–7:47 · Nathan pushing back 8/10 Introducing Deepak Goel and the KarmaCircles Concept Nathan aggressively challenges Deepak's rationale for offering free pilots rather than charging immediately, arguing that verbal willingness to pay without a credit card charge is a classic founder illusion. Deepak defends his strategy calmly, emphasizing user retention and habit formation over premature low-dollar monetization.7:47–10:08 · Nathan pushing back 6/10 Market Sizing, Target Organizations, and Potential Enterprise Valuation Nathan questions whether KarmaCircles has a large enough total addressable market to become a substantial business. Deepak counters by comparing their market opportunity to Yammer's enterprise model and its one-billion-dollar acquisition valuation.10:08–13:18 · Nathan pushing back 2/10 Angel Investment, Low-Cost Indian Tech Team, and Product Quality The conversation shifts to funding and unit economics, where Nathan is impressed by Deepak's low burn rate of three thousand dollars a month for a five-person offshore engineering team in India.13:20–19:11 · Nathan pushing back 4/10 Sponsor Message: HostGator Hosting and Austin Live Conference Announcement Nathan contrasts his unapologetically transactional mindset with Deepak's philosophy of giving advice freely for long-term goodwill before transitioning into the Famous Five and corporate background questions.

speaking balance: gold is Nathan, purple is the guest (3 minute bins)

0:00 · Nathan 72.4% · guest 27.6%0:00 · Nathan 72.4% · guest 27.6%3:00 · Nathan 33.1% · guest 66.9%3:00 · Nathan 33.1% · guest 66.9%6:00 · Nathan 34% · guest 66%6:00 · Nathan 34% · guest 66%9:00 · Nathan 36.4% · guest 63.6%9:00 · Nathan 36.4% · guest 63.6%12:00 · Nathan 65.4% · guest 34.6%12:00 · Nathan 65.4% · guest 34.6%15:00 · Nathan 46.2% · guest 53.8%15:00 · Nathan 46.2% · guest 53.8%18:00 · Nathan 84.1% · guest 15.9%18:00 · Nathan 84.1% · guest 15.9%21:00 · Nathan 100% · guest 0%21:00 · Nathan 100% · guest 0%
Sharpest disagreement ▶ 9:33 Directly rejecting TAM skepticism

Deepak directly rejects Nathan's claim that the business cannot scale, laying out calculations based on LinkedIn's user base and Yammer's billion-dollar precedent.

 Hardest push from Nathan ▶ 4:43 Bluntly dismissing free pilot justification

Nathan interrupts Deepak to state he does not believe the rationale for running free pilots, insisting that paying customers are the only true measure of product value.

 Biggest teaching moment ▶ 9:25 Educating host on enterprise network TAM

Deepak educates Nathan on enterprise market potential by reframing the customer base from small business schools to hundred-million-user corporate networks.

 Nathan holds their own ▶ 6:14 Exposing the verbal commitment trap

Nathan demonstrates founder advisory experience by drilling Deepak on the critical difference between friendly verbal commitments and actual credit card transactions.
the scores for every segment, with the reasoning behind each
ChapterTopicNathan as informed peerGuest teachingGuest disagreementNathan pushing backWhy
Introducing Deepak Goel and the KarmaCircles Concept 7348 Nathan aggressively challenges Deepak's rationale for offering free pilots rather than charging immediately, arguing that verbal willingness to pay without a credit card charge is a classic founder illusion. Deepak defends his strategy calmly, emphasizing user retention and habit formation over premature low-dollar monetization.
Market Sizing, Target Organizations, and Potential Enterprise Valuation 5656 Nathan questions whether KarmaCircles has a large enough total addressable market to become a substantial business. Deepak counters by comparing their market opportunity to Yammer's enterprise model and its one-billion-dollar acquisition valuation.
Angel Investment, Low-Cost Indian Tech Team, and Product Quality 5322 The conversation shifts to funding and unit economics, where Nathan is impressed by Deepak's low burn rate of three thousand dollars a month for a five-person offshore engineering team in India.
Sponsor Message: HostGator Hosting and Austin Live Conference Announcement 4234 Nathan contrasts his unapologetically transactional mindset with Deepak's philosophy of giving advice freely for long-term goodwill before transitioning into the Famous Five and corporate background questions.

Statements from this episode (9)

Disclosure
KarmaCircles Generated Zero Revenue in Its First Year
“So first year we didn't make any money because we came up with the enterprise version only this year.”
Deepak Goel Aug 29, 2016 ▶ 3:23
Disclosure
KarmaCircles Prices Enterprise SaaS at $2 to $3 Monthly Per User
“Yeah, that is what we are playing with dollar two to dollar three per user per month.”
Deepak Goel Aug 29, 2016 ▶ 4:07
What-if
Goel: KarmaCircles Has a $500M to $1B TAM If Fully Penetrated
“There are around a hundred million professionals on LinkedIn. Every one of them is part of some company or some business school or some university. So we could actually, if we get them all, we are looking at around half a billion to one billion dollar revenue …”
Deepak Goel Aug 29, 2016 ▶ 9:37
Assertion Supported
Goel: KarmaCircles Targets the Same Enterprise Base as $1B Yammer
“Yammer got valued at one billion dollars. I think five years back or six years back. And that is exactly the customer base we are going after.”
Deepak Goel Aug 29, 2016 ▶ 9:58
Disclosure
KarmaCircles Raised $100K Convertible Note With $3M Cap and 20% Discount
“We have raised money from six angel investors... Just a 100,000 dollars... That was a convertible note... 20% discount and a three million dollar cap.”
Deepak Goel Aug 29, 2016 ▶ 10:11
Assertion Not checkable as stated
KarmaCircles Keeps Monthly Burn at $3K With Indian Engineering Team
“Our burn rate is around dollar 3000 per month because the engineering team is entirely in India.”
Deepak Goel Aug 29, 2016 ▶ 10:56
Insight
Goel: The Best Advisors Do Not Charge Money For Their Advice
“We do not believe that the best advisors advise others for money.”
Deepak Goel Aug 29, 2016 ▶ 11:50
Insight
Goel: Leave Jobs Within Two Years Unless Receiving Two Promotions Annually
“The ground rule or the thumb rule that I would suggest is don't stay at a company for more than two years, unless you are like getting two promotions every year.”
Deepak Goel Aug 29, 2016 ▶ 17:46
Disclosure
Goel: Earned Slightly Under $200K Annual Salary at Microsoft
“Little, little less than 200.”
Deepak Goel Aug 29, 2016 ▶ 18:07
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