Oct 2, 2016 · 22m · top-founders

EP 436: $4.5m on Ebay, Now SaaS Hits $25kMRR to Help Sellers Sell on Ebay with Crazylister CEO Victor Levitin

Nathan Latka · 10m spoken Victor Levitin · 8m spoken
0:00 / 0:00

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In this episode of The Top, host Nathan Latka interviews CrazyLister co-founder and CEO Victor Levitin to examine how he transitioned from a multimillion-dollar eBay merchant into building a SaaS platform generating $25,000 in monthly recurring revenue. The discussion breaks down CrazyLister's product mechanics, freemium paywall transition, customer acquisition metrics, and runway toward cash flow breakeven.

How this conversation actually went

Every chapter scored 0–10 on four independent dynamics. Hover any point for the reasoning behind the score. Nathan holds 55% of the talking time here. How this is scored →

Nathan as informed peer 5.7 Guest teaching 1.8 Guest disagreement 1.8 Nathan pushing back 3.8
05100:0010:0020:001:19–4:11 · Nathan as informed peer 5/10 Previewing Upcoming Episodes and Introducing Victor Levitin Nathan introduces Victor and quickly drills into CrazyLister's product mechanics, pricing tiers, and average revenue per user (clarifying 15 vs 50). Victor answers straightforwardly without resistance.4:12–6:38 · Nathan as informed peer 4/10 Founding Background, E-Commerce Pivot, and Co-Founder Equity Nathan probes into why the founders left a profitable $4.5M e-commerce business to build SaaS, and presses for exact details on how co-founder equity was distributed with their new CTO.6:38–8:42 · Nathan as informed peer 7/10 User Growth, Freemium Paywall Transition, and Revenue Metrics Nathan pushes back when Victor appears to give contradictory timelines about freemium vs paid plans, and then demonstrates SaaS expertise by explaining how annual cash collections must be recognized into MRR.8:42–12:21 · Nathan as informed peer 7/10 User Engagement, Cohort Churn Dynamics, and Acquisition Economics Victor explains their 40% initial cohort churn before stabilizing at 3% monthly churn. Nathan steps in to compute their implied customer lifetime (33 months), calculating a $500 LTV against their $70 target CAC.12:21–15:30 · Nathan as informed peer 6/10 Tel Aviv Headquarters, Early Funding, Valuation, and Growth Strategy Nathan vigorously challenges Victor's claim that CrazyLister has already grown into its $4.1M post-money valuation at a $300k run-rate. Victor holds his ground, arguing valuation is driven by 15% month-over-month growth rather than current revenue.15:30–18:27 · Nathan as informed peer 5/10 Monthly Expenses, Runway to Breakeven, and Contact Information Nathan runs through the company's $60k monthly burn rate and $50k headcount allocation to calculate their net monthly cash burn of $20-30k before closing the core interview.1:19–4:11 · Guest teaching 1/10 Previewing Upcoming Episodes and Introducing Victor Levitin Nathan introduces Victor and quickly drills into CrazyLister's product mechanics, pricing tiers, and average revenue per user (clarifying 15 vs 50). Victor answers straightforwardly without resistance.4:12–6:38 · Guest teaching 1/10 Founding Background, E-Commerce Pivot, and Co-Founder Equity Nathan probes into why the founders left a profitable $4.5M e-commerce business to build SaaS, and presses for exact details on how co-founder equity was distributed with their new CTO.6:38–8:42 · Guest teaching 2/10 User Growth, Freemium Paywall Transition, and Revenue Metrics Nathan pushes back when Victor appears to give contradictory timelines about freemium vs paid plans, and then demonstrates SaaS expertise by explaining how annual cash collections must be recognized into MRR.8:42–12:21 · Guest teaching 3/10 User Engagement, Cohort Churn Dynamics, and Acquisition Economics Victor explains their 40% initial cohort churn before stabilizing at 3% monthly churn. Nathan steps in to compute their implied customer lifetime (33 months), calculating a $500 LTV against their $70 target CAC.12:21–15:30 · Guest teaching 3/10 Tel Aviv Headquarters, Early Funding, Valuation, and Growth Strategy Nathan vigorously challenges Victor's claim that CrazyLister has already grown into its $4.1M post-money valuation at a $300k run-rate. Victor holds his ground, arguing valuation is driven by 15% month-over-month growth rather than current revenue.15:30–18:27 · Guest teaching 1/10 Monthly Expenses, Runway to Breakeven, and Contact Information Nathan runs through the company's $60k monthly burn rate and $50k headcount allocation to calculate their net monthly cash burn of $20-30k before closing the core interview.1:19–4:11 · Guest disagreement 1/10 Previewing Upcoming Episodes and Introducing Victor Levitin Nathan introduces Victor and quickly drills into CrazyLister's product mechanics, pricing tiers, and average revenue per user (clarifying 15 vs 50). Victor answers straightforwardly without resistance.4:12–6:38 · Guest disagreement 1/10 Founding Background, E-Commerce Pivot, and Co-Founder Equity Nathan probes into why the founders left a profitable $4.5M e-commerce business to build SaaS, and presses for exact details on how co-founder equity was distributed with their new CTO.6:38–8:42 · Guest disagreement 2/10 User Growth, Freemium Paywall Transition, and Revenue Metrics Nathan pushes back when Victor appears to give contradictory timelines about freemium vs paid plans, and then demonstrates SaaS expertise by explaining how annual cash collections must be recognized into MRR.8:42–12:21 · Guest disagreement 2/10 User Engagement, Cohort Churn Dynamics, and Acquisition Economics Victor explains their 40% initial cohort churn before stabilizing at 3% monthly churn. Nathan steps in to compute their implied customer lifetime (33 months), calculating a $500 LTV against their $70 target CAC.12:21–15:30 · Guest disagreement 4/10 Tel Aviv Headquarters, Early Funding, Valuation, and Growth Strategy Nathan vigorously challenges Victor's claim that CrazyLister has already grown into its $4.1M post-money valuation at a $300k run-rate. Victor holds his ground, arguing valuation is driven by 15% month-over-month growth rather than current revenue.15:30–18:27 · Guest disagreement 1/10 Monthly Expenses, Runway to Breakeven, and Contact Information Nathan runs through the company's $60k monthly burn rate and $50k headcount allocation to calculate their net monthly cash burn of $20-30k before closing the core interview.1:19–4:11 · Nathan pushing back 2/10 Previewing Upcoming Episodes and Introducing Victor Levitin Nathan introduces Victor and quickly drills into CrazyLister's product mechanics, pricing tiers, and average revenue per user (clarifying 15 vs 50). Victor answers straightforwardly without resistance.4:12–6:38 · Nathan pushing back 3/10 Founding Background, E-Commerce Pivot, and Co-Founder Equity Nathan probes into why the founders left a profitable $4.5M e-commerce business to build SaaS, and presses for exact details on how co-founder equity was distributed with their new CTO.6:38–8:42 · Nathan pushing back 5/10 User Growth, Freemium Paywall Transition, and Revenue Metrics Nathan pushes back when Victor appears to give contradictory timelines about freemium vs paid plans, and then demonstrates SaaS expertise by explaining how annual cash collections must be recognized into MRR.8:42–12:21 · Nathan pushing back 4/10 User Engagement, Cohort Churn Dynamics, and Acquisition Economics Victor explains their 40% initial cohort churn before stabilizing at 3% monthly churn. Nathan steps in to compute their implied customer lifetime (33 months), calculating a $500 LTV against their $70 target CAC.12:21–15:30 · Nathan pushing back 7/10 Tel Aviv Headquarters, Early Funding, Valuation, and Growth Strategy Nathan vigorously challenges Victor's claim that CrazyLister has already grown into its $4.1M post-money valuation at a $300k run-rate. Victor holds his ground, arguing valuation is driven by 15% month-over-month growth rather than current revenue.15:30–18:27 · Nathan pushing back 2/10 Monthly Expenses, Runway to Breakeven, and Contact Information Nathan runs through the company's $60k monthly burn rate and $50k headcount allocation to calculate their net monthly cash burn of $20-30k before closing the core interview.

speaking balance: gold is Nathan, purple is the guest (3 minute bins)

0:00 · Nathan 72.2% · guest 27.8%0:00 · Nathan 72.2% · guest 27.8%3:00 · Nathan 23.9% · guest 76.1%3:00 · Nathan 23.9% · guest 76.1%6:00 · Nathan 45.9% · guest 54.1%6:00 · Nathan 45.9% · guest 54.1%9:00 · Nathan 44.7% · guest 55.3%9:00 · Nathan 44.7% · guest 55.3%12:00 · Nathan 47% · guest 53%12:00 · Nathan 47% · guest 53%15:00 · Nathan 72.6% · guest 27.4%15:00 · Nathan 72.6% · guest 27.4%18:00 · Nathan 59.5% · guest 40.5%18:00 · Nathan 59.5% · guest 40.5%21:00 · Nathan 98.8% · guest 1.2%21:00 · Nathan 98.8% · guest 1.2%
Sharpest disagreement ▶ 14:06 Victor defends startup growth valuation against buyout framing

Victor rejects Nathan's assertion that no acquirer would pay $4.1M for their run-rate by retorting that they would not sell today and that valuation depends on their 15% monthly growth rate.

Hardest push from Nathan ▶ 13:48 Nathan questions justification for $4.1M valuation

Nathan directly challenges Victor's belief that they have grown into their $4.1M valuation on just a $300k annual run rate, arguing no buyer in the market would pay that multiple.

Biggest teaching moment ▶ 10:39 Victor clarifies first-month paid churn behavior

Victor corrects Nathan's assumption that the high 40% initial churn is just non-converting trial users, explaining that paying users also churn after one month because 14 days was not enough to evaluate the tool.

Nathan holds their own ▶ 8:11 Nathan lectures on SaaS MRR recognition

Nathan breaks down SaaS 101 revenue accounting, explaining exactly how to divide annual upfront payments by 12 to normalize total revenue into standard monthly recurring revenue.

the scores for every segment, with the reasoning behind each
ChapterTopicNathan as informed peerGuest teachingGuest disagreementNathan pushing backWhy
Previewing Upcoming Episodes and Introducing Victor Levitin 5112 Nathan introduces Victor and quickly drills into CrazyLister's product mechanics, pricing tiers, and average revenue per user (clarifying 15 vs 50). Victor answers straightforwardly without resistance.
Founding Background, E-Commerce Pivot, and Co-Founder Equity 4113 Nathan probes into why the founders left a profitable $4.5M e-commerce business to build SaaS, and presses for exact details on how co-founder equity was distributed with their new CTO.
User Growth, Freemium Paywall Transition, and Revenue Metrics 7225 Nathan pushes back when Victor appears to give contradictory timelines about freemium vs paid plans, and then demonstrates SaaS expertise by explaining how annual cash collections must be recognized into MRR.
User Engagement, Cohort Churn Dynamics, and Acquisition Economics 7324 Victor explains their 40% initial cohort churn before stabilizing at 3% monthly churn. Nathan steps in to compute their implied customer lifetime (33 months), calculating a $500 LTV against their $70 target CAC.
Tel Aviv Headquarters, Early Funding, Valuation, and Growth Strategy 6347 Nathan vigorously challenges Victor's claim that CrazyLister has already grown into its $4.1M post-money valuation at a $300k run-rate. Victor holds his ground, arguing valuation is driven by 15% month-over-month growth rather than current revenue.
Monthly Expenses, Runway to Breakeven, and Contact Information 5112 Nathan runs through the company's $60k monthly burn rate and $50k headcount allocation to calculate their net monthly cash burn of $20-30k before closing the core interview.

Statements from this episode (16)

Disclosure
Levitin: CrazyLister subscription plans range from $9 to $45 monthly
“We have we have plans based on the number of listings or products you want to list with Crazy Lister, and it goes from nine bucks a month up to 45 bucks a month.”
Victor Levitin Oct 2, 2016 ▶ 3:50
Assertion Not checkable as stated
Levitin: CrazyLister monthly ARPU is around $15
“ARPU is around 15 dollars a month.”
Victor Levitin Oct 2, 2016 ▶ 4:06
Disclosure
CrazyLister CTO joined at 10,000 customers with an uneven equity split
“Well, because of the fact that Orr joined along when we already had like 10,000 customers, it's not an even split between the three of us, but I can say that we are all happy with our shares. He has, or has a significant share.”
Victor Levitin Oct 2, 2016 ▶ 6:22
Assertion Not checkable as stated
CrazyLister reaches nearly 2,000 paying customers from 40,000 registered users
“We have nearly 2000 paying customers. Up till recently, we were a freemium, and we have a total of 40,000 registered users.”
Victor Levitin Oct 2, 2016 ▶ 6:41
Assertion Not checkable as stated
CrazyLister generated around $30,000 in total revenue in 2015
“Total 20 15 was around, I'd say, 30,000 dollars.”
Victor Levitin Oct 2, 2016 ▶ 7:04
Assertion Not checkable as stated
CrazyLister hits $25,000 MRR and $40,000 total revenue in August 2016
“If you count the revenue, we did about 40 K in revenue in August. If you're talking about MRR, that's 25 K.”
Victor Levitin Oct 2, 2016 ▶ 8:02
Assertion Not checkable as stated
Over 30% of CrazyLister upgrades are annual subscriptions
“Yeah, a bit more than 30% of our upgrades are annual upgrades.”
Victor Levitin Oct 2, 2016 ▶ 8:36
Insight
Levitin: Creating new product listings is CrazyLister's primary retention metric
“The number one metric for us is for users to keep creating new product listings with crazy lister. So this is the one metric that we follow.”
Victor Levitin Oct 2, 2016 ▶ 9:39
Assertion Not checkable as stated
CrazyLister churn drops from 40% in month one to 2-3% monthly
“We lose about 40% after one month. That's what you call a, let's call it a paid trial. And then after that, we are at a pretty good churn of about two, three percent per month.”
Victor Levitin Oct 2, 2016 ▶ 10:05
Disclosure
CrazyLister targets a customer acquisition cost of $70 or below
“Well, we aim for anywhere around 70 dollars and below.”
Victor Levitin Oct 2, 2016 ▶ 11:59
Disclosure
Levitin: CrazyLister raised equity round at a $3.5M pre-money valuation
“We raised a 3.5 prem money.”
Victor Levitin Oct 2, 2016 ▶ 13:22
Assertion Not checkable as stated
Levitin: CrazyLister is growing month-over-month revenue by around 15%
“Oh no, we feel that we, with the with the rate that we grow, the month over month growth that we have around 15%, we feel that we already exceeded the valuation.”
Victor Levitin Oct 2, 2016 ▶ 13:34
Disclosure
Levitin: Content marketing is CrazyLister's primary traffic driver
“Yeah, so the number one driver of traffic for us is content marketing.”
Victor Levitin Oct 2, 2016 ▶ 14:47
Prediction Not checkable as stated
Levitin: CrazyLister will hit breakeven on existing funding
“We should be hitting break even with the investment that we've raised.”
Victor Levitin Oct 2, 2016 ▶ 15:40
Assertion Not checkable as stated
CrazyLister monthly expenses stand at around $60,000
“Around 60 K.”
Victor Levitin Oct 2, 2016 ▶ 15:48
Opinion
Levitin: Operating in tech business without coding is like not speaking English
“Well, business life, I would teach myself how to code. I really feel like not knowing a language, not knowing how to speak English without coding.”
Victor Levitin Oct 2, 2016 ▶ 20:16
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