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Oct 4, 2016 · 23m · top-founders

EP 437: SaaS $10m Raised, $8m+ 2015 Revenue, The Algorithmic Mckinsey with CB Insights CEO Anand Sanwal

Anand Sanwal · 12m spoken Nathan Latka · 8m spoken
0:00 / 0:00

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Nathan Latka interviews CB Insights CEO Anand Sanwal, who details his transition from corporate venture capital to scaling an eight-figure market intelligence platform using disciplined SaaS unit economics and strategic bootstrapping.

How this conversation actually went

Every chapter scored 0–10 on four independent dynamics. Hover any point for the reasoning behind the score. Nathan holds 41.2% of the talking time here. How this is scored →

Nathan as informed peer 3.6 Guest teaching 2.4 Guest disagreement 1.1 Nathan pushing back 2.0
05100:0010:0020:000:28–2:35 · Nathan as informed peer 0/10 Weekly Contest Winner and Acquisition Announcement Solo intro segment where Latka announces contest winners, promotes an acquisition and sponsor, and reads Anand Sanwal's bio. Because it is a monologue, all interaction metrics are zero.2:36–4:50 · Nathan as informed peer 3/10 Dot-Com Crash Lessons at Cosmo.com Latka playfully probes Sanwal on burning capital at Cosmo.com and rationalizing negative unit economics. Sanwal candidly reflects on dot-com era hubris without defensiveness.4:50–7:26 · Nathan as informed peer 3/10 Leaving American Express to Launch CB Insights Latka asks about Sanwal's salary at American Express and the timing of his leap into entrepreneurship. Sanwal shares his transparent figures and family situation during the 2008 downturn.7:26–10:24 · Nathan as informed peer 4/10 CB Insights Product Model and Enterprise Strategy Sanwal details CB Insights' enterprise value proposition as an algorithmic alternative to legacy consulting, explaining their unbundling infographics and machine-driven approach.10:24–16:15 · Nathan as informed peer 7/10 SaaS Metrics, Revenue Run Rate, and Unit Economics Latka drills deep into SaaS unit economics, calculating MRR, LTV, and CAC while pressing on churn nuances. Sanwal keeps the math grounded by correcting Latka's average contract estimates due to legacy pricing.16:15–19:40 · Nathan as informed peer 6/10 Fundraising Strategy, Comps, and Governance Sanwal explains why price-to-revenue and LTV/CAC matter more than PE ratios for growth businesses, gently correcting Latka's valuation framing. Latka tests him with a trick question on acquisition talks.19:41–22:13 · Nathan as informed peer 2/10 Sponsor Segment: Hiring Developers with Toptal Begins with an ad read for Toptal and transitions into the rapid-fire Famous Five format, concluding smoothly with no combativeness.0:28–2:35 · Guest teaching 0/10 Weekly Contest Winner and Acquisition Announcement Solo intro segment where Latka announces contest winners, promotes an acquisition and sponsor, and reads Anand Sanwal's bio. Because it is a monologue, all interaction metrics are zero.2:36–4:50 · Guest teaching 2/10 Dot-Com Crash Lessons at Cosmo.com Latka playfully probes Sanwal on burning capital at Cosmo.com and rationalizing negative unit economics. Sanwal candidly reflects on dot-com era hubris without defensiveness.4:50–7:26 · Guest teaching 2/10 Leaving American Express to Launch CB Insights Latka asks about Sanwal's salary at American Express and the timing of his leap into entrepreneurship. Sanwal shares his transparent figures and family situation during the 2008 downturn.7:26–10:24 · Guest teaching 4/10 CB Insights Product Model and Enterprise Strategy Sanwal details CB Insights' enterprise value proposition as an algorithmic alternative to legacy consulting, explaining their unbundling infographics and machine-driven approach.10:24–16:15 · Guest teaching 3/10 SaaS Metrics, Revenue Run Rate, and Unit Economics Latka drills deep into SaaS unit economics, calculating MRR, LTV, and CAC while pressing on churn nuances. Sanwal keeps the math grounded by correcting Latka's average contract estimates due to legacy pricing.16:15–19:40 · Guest teaching 5/10 Fundraising Strategy, Comps, and Governance Sanwal explains why price-to-revenue and LTV/CAC matter more than PE ratios for growth businesses, gently correcting Latka's valuation framing. Latka tests him with a trick question on acquisition talks.19:41–22:13 · Guest teaching 1/10 Sponsor Segment: Hiring Developers with Toptal Begins with an ad read for Toptal and transitions into the rapid-fire Famous Five format, concluding smoothly with no combativeness.0:28–2:35 · Guest disagreement 0/10 Weekly Contest Winner and Acquisition Announcement Solo intro segment where Latka announces contest winners, promotes an acquisition and sponsor, and reads Anand Sanwal's bio. Because it is a monologue, all interaction metrics are zero.2:36–4:50 · Guest disagreement 1/10 Dot-Com Crash Lessons at Cosmo.com Latka playfully probes Sanwal on burning capital at Cosmo.com and rationalizing negative unit economics. Sanwal candidly reflects on dot-com era hubris without defensiveness.4:50–7:26 · Guest disagreement 1/10 Leaving American Express to Launch CB Insights Latka asks about Sanwal's salary at American Express and the timing of his leap into entrepreneurship. Sanwal shares his transparent figures and family situation during the 2008 downturn.7:26–10:24 · Guest disagreement 1/10 CB Insights Product Model and Enterprise Strategy Sanwal details CB Insights' enterprise value proposition as an algorithmic alternative to legacy consulting, explaining their unbundling infographics and machine-driven approach.10:24–16:15 · Guest disagreement 2/10 SaaS Metrics, Revenue Run Rate, and Unit Economics Latka drills deep into SaaS unit economics, calculating MRR, LTV, and CAC while pressing on churn nuances. Sanwal keeps the math grounded by correcting Latka's average contract estimates due to legacy pricing.16:15–19:40 · Guest disagreement 3/10 Fundraising Strategy, Comps, and Governance Sanwal explains why price-to-revenue and LTV/CAC matter more than PE ratios for growth businesses, gently correcting Latka's valuation framing. Latka tests him with a trick question on acquisition talks.19:41–22:13 · Guest disagreement 0/10 Sponsor Segment: Hiring Developers with Toptal Begins with an ad read for Toptal and transitions into the rapid-fire Famous Five format, concluding smoothly with no combativeness.0:28–2:35 · Nathan pushing back 0/10 Weekly Contest Winner and Acquisition Announcement Solo intro segment where Latka announces contest winners, promotes an acquisition and sponsor, and reads Anand Sanwal's bio. Because it is a monologue, all interaction metrics are zero.2:36–4:50 · Nathan pushing back 2/10 Dot-Com Crash Lessons at Cosmo.com Latka playfully probes Sanwal on burning capital at Cosmo.com and rationalizing negative unit economics. Sanwal candidly reflects on dot-com era hubris without defensiveness.4:50–7:26 · Nathan pushing back 2/10 Leaving American Express to Launch CB Insights Latka asks about Sanwal's salary at American Express and the timing of his leap into entrepreneurship. Sanwal shares his transparent figures and family situation during the 2008 downturn.7:26–10:24 · Nathan pushing back 1/10 CB Insights Product Model and Enterprise Strategy Sanwal details CB Insights' enterprise value proposition as an algorithmic alternative to legacy consulting, explaining their unbundling infographics and machine-driven approach.10:24–16:15 · Nathan pushing back 4/10 SaaS Metrics, Revenue Run Rate, and Unit Economics Latka drills deep into SaaS unit economics, calculating MRR, LTV, and CAC while pressing on churn nuances. Sanwal keeps the math grounded by correcting Latka's average contract estimates due to legacy pricing.16:15–19:40 · Nathan pushing back 4/10 Fundraising Strategy, Comps, and Governance Sanwal explains why price-to-revenue and LTV/CAC matter more than PE ratios for growth businesses, gently correcting Latka's valuation framing. Latka tests him with a trick question on acquisition talks.19:41–22:13 · Nathan pushing back 1/10 Sponsor Segment: Hiring Developers with Toptal Begins with an ad read for Toptal and transitions into the rapid-fire Famous Five format, concluding smoothly with no combativeness.

speaking balance: gold is Nathan, purple is the guest (3 minute bins)

0:00 · Nathan 88.1% · guest 11.9%0:00 · Nathan 88.1% · guest 11.9%3:00 · Nathan 20.1% · guest 79.9%3:00 · Nathan 20.1% · guest 79.9%6:00 · Nathan 16.9% · guest 83.1%6:00 · Nathan 16.9% · guest 83.1%9:00 · Nathan 17.9% · guest 82.1%9:00 · Nathan 17.9% · guest 82.1%12:00 · Nathan 38.7% · guest 61.3%12:00 · Nathan 38.7% · guest 61.3%15:00 · Nathan 26.7% · guest 73.3%15:00 · Nathan 26.7% · guest 73.3%18:00 · Nathan 55.9% · guest 44.1%18:00 · Nathan 55.9% · guest 44.1%21:00 · Nathan 74.3% · guest 25.7%21:00 · Nathan 74.3% · guest 25.7%
Sharpest disagreement ▶ 19:13 Playful deflection of acquisition trick question

Sanwal firmly denies acquisition talks when Latka poses a trick question designed to catch him off guard.

 Hardest push from Nathan ▶ 12:28 Latka clarifies revenue magnitude

Latka immediately catches and clarifies whether Sanwal meant ten figures or eight figures when discussing 2016 projections.

 Biggest teaching moment ▶ 18:17 Sanwal corrects valuation approach away from PE multiples

Sanwal explains that fast-growing SaaS companies do not optimize for earnings, shifting Latka's focus from PE ratios to revenue multiples and CAC-to-LTV benchmarks.

 Nathan holds their own ▶ 14:47 Latka calculates LTV to CAC benchmarks

Latka computes the 200k LTV against 15k CAC in real time, highlighting CB Insights' extraordinary unit economics relative to the standard 3:1 industry ratio.
the scores for every segment, with the reasoning behind each
ChapterTopicNathan as informed peerGuest teachingGuest disagreementNathan pushing backWhy
Weekly Contest Winner and Acquisition Announcement 0000 Solo intro segment where Latka announces contest winners, promotes an acquisition and sponsor, and reads Anand Sanwal's bio. Because it is a monologue, all interaction metrics are zero.
Dot-Com Crash Lessons at Cosmo.com 3212 Latka playfully probes Sanwal on burning capital at Cosmo.com and rationalizing negative unit economics. Sanwal candidly reflects on dot-com era hubris without defensiveness.
Leaving American Express to Launch CB Insights 3212 Latka asks about Sanwal's salary at American Express and the timing of his leap into entrepreneurship. Sanwal shares his transparent figures and family situation during the 2008 downturn.
CB Insights Product Model and Enterprise Strategy 4411 Sanwal details CB Insights' enterprise value proposition as an algorithmic alternative to legacy consulting, explaining their unbundling infographics and machine-driven approach.
SaaS Metrics, Revenue Run Rate, and Unit Economics 7324 Latka drills deep into SaaS unit economics, calculating MRR, LTV, and CAC while pressing on churn nuances. Sanwal keeps the math grounded by correcting Latka's average contract estimates due to legacy pricing.
Fundraising Strategy, Comps, and Governance 6534 Sanwal explains why price-to-revenue and LTV/CAC matter more than PE ratios for growth businesses, gently correcting Latka's valuation framing. Latka tests him with a trick question on acquisition talks.
Sponsor Segment: Hiring Developers with Toptal 2101 Begins with an ad read for Toptal and transitions into the rapid-fire Famous Five format, concluding smoothly with no combativeness.

Statements from this episode (10)

Prediction Didn’t hold up
Latka: I will take Send Later public by age 30
“I will build, send later into a big business, and I will take it public by the time I turn 30.”
Nathan Latka Oct 4, 2016 ▶ 1:18
Assertion Supported
Sanwal: Kozmo.com raised roughly $250M-$260M before its unit economics failed
“We raised, I think, like, 252 hundred sixty million dollars, and did that for a while, and eventually economics caught up with us when the money dried up”
Anand Sanwal Oct 4, 2016 ▶ 2:44
Disclosure
Sanwal earned $305K to $325K at Amex before founding CB Insights
“Ah, this was seven years ago. I was probably all in probably around three, 25, 305,000.”
Anand Sanwal Oct 4, 2016 ▶ 6:30
Disclosure
Sanwal: CB Insights Customers Pay $40k to Several Hundred Thousand Annually
“Typically just the price wise, you know, customers pay us anywhere from around 40,000 a year up to a couple 100,000.”
Anand Sanwal Oct 4, 2016 ▶ 7:58
Assertion Not checkable as stated
Sanwal: CB Insights grew revenue 100% to 200% year-over-year
“We've been growing hundred to 200% year over year for the last couple of years.”
Anand Sanwal Oct 4, 2016 ▶ 11:44
Assertion Not checkable as stated
Sanwal: CB Insights grew from 24 to over 103 employees in 20 months
“20 months ago we were 24 and last week we crossed a 103 or a 104.”
Anand Sanwal Oct 4, 2016 ▶ 12:13
Assertion Not checkable as stated
Sanwal: CB Insights has a fully weighted CAC of just over $15,000
“So our cost of individual customer acquisition when we look at it is just over 15 K. So that's inclusive of the sales team and all the marketing spend.”
Anand Sanwal Oct 4, 2016 ▶ 14:10
Assertion Not checkable as stated
Sanwal: CB Insights maintains annual gross customer churn at 10%
“We're just at 10%.”
Anand Sanwal Oct 4, 2016 ▶ 14:39
Disclosure
Sanwal: CB Insights took an unsolicited VC offer instead of fundraising
“So our customers, many of them actually are VCs. And so one of our VC customers had said, hey, listen, or growth equity, I guess they are basically kind of put an offer in front of us, right? So it was very, we didn't go out and do a fundraise. We'd actually, …”
Anand Sanwal Oct 4, 2016 ▶ 16:42
Disclosure
Sanwal: CB Insights prioritized governance and liquidation terms over capital
“So, you know, because we didn't need the money. I think we optimized a lot for kind of, you know, we're going to run the, we want to continue to run the business. We've, the way we've run the business. And so other terms that I think sometimes get put into the…”
Anand Sanwal Oct 4, 2016 ▶ 17:42
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