StarZero All shows Try the podcast clipper →

Oct 22, 2016 · 16m · top-founders

EP 455: Exited in 2013, Now Moving From "Job" To Startup CEO Again. How? with Ariel Camus

Ariel Camus · 8m spoken Nathan Latka · 5m spoken
0:00 / 0:00

gold bands on the timeline = statements, start to end. Hover to read, click to jump. CC turns on captions

Host Nathan Latka interviews entrepreneur Ariel Camus about the sale of his travel startup TouristEye to Lonely Planet and his transition to bootstrapping HackerPath, an innovative peer-to-peer education platform.

How this conversation actually went

Every chapter scored 0–10 on four independent dynamics. Hover any point for the reasoning behind the score. Nathan holds 39.9% of the talking time here. How this is scored →

Nathan as informed peer 3.6 Guest teaching 3.4 Guest disagreement 1.6 Nathan pushing back 3.8
05100:0010:001:31–4:45 · Nathan as informed peer 5/10 TouristEye Background, Monetization, and Lonely Planet Acquisition Nathan presses on the financial details of TouristEye's exit, questioning why the sale price did not match the Series A target valuation. Ariel sets a polite boundary regarding confidentiality while providing industry context about competitor Gogobot's funding and VC skepticism.4:45–7:54 · Nathan as informed peer 4/10 Leading Digital Product Transformation at Lonely Planet Nathan inquires about Lonely Planet's digital transformation and the business model for Ariel's new venture HackerPath. Ariel explains the recruiter commission model, and Nathan clarifies that the startup is currently pre-revenue.7:54–10:34 · Nathan as informed peer 4/10 Evaluating Earn-Out Agreements and Career Decisions Post-Exit Nathan sets up a scenario about founders trapped in golden handcuffs and earn-out clauses, but Ariel educates him that his deal included no earn-out retainer at all. Nathan then probes into Ariel's exact salary and personal financial runway.10:34–13:14 · Nathan as informed peer 3/10 Bootstrapping HackerPath and Validating Code Roulette Ariel discusses launching Code Roulette to validate collaborative learning and keeping development lean. Nathan interrupts Ariel's product narrative to pin down the exact cash investment figure.13:20–14:57 · Nathan as informed peer 2/10 The Famous Five Rapid-Fire Questions with Ariel Camus Nathan runs through the rapid-fire questions, mistakenly thinking Ariel is 39 instead of 29. When Ariel states he had everything figured out at 19 and has no advice for his younger self, Nathan pushes back incredulously.1:31–4:45 · Guest teaching 4/10 TouristEye Background, Monetization, and Lonely Planet Acquisition Nathan presses on the financial details of TouristEye's exit, questioning why the sale price did not match the Series A target valuation. Ariel sets a polite boundary regarding confidentiality while providing industry context about competitor Gogobot's funding and VC skepticism.4:45–7:54 · Guest teaching 3/10 Leading Digital Product Transformation at Lonely Planet Nathan inquires about Lonely Planet's digital transformation and the business model for Ariel's new venture HackerPath. Ariel explains the recruiter commission model, and Nathan clarifies that the startup is currently pre-revenue.7:54–10:34 · Guest teaching 5/10 Evaluating Earn-Out Agreements and Career Decisions Post-Exit Nathan sets up a scenario about founders trapped in golden handcuffs and earn-out clauses, but Ariel educates him that his deal included no earn-out retainer at all. Nathan then probes into Ariel's exact salary and personal financial runway.10:34–13:14 · Guest teaching 2/10 Bootstrapping HackerPath and Validating Code Roulette Ariel discusses launching Code Roulette to validate collaborative learning and keeping development lean. Nathan interrupts Ariel's product narrative to pin down the exact cash investment figure.13:20–14:57 · Guest teaching 3/10 The Famous Five Rapid-Fire Questions with Ariel Camus Nathan runs through the rapid-fire questions, mistakenly thinking Ariel is 39 instead of 29. When Ariel states he had everything figured out at 19 and has no advice for his younger self, Nathan pushes back incredulously.1:31–4:45 · Guest disagreement 2/10 TouristEye Background, Monetization, and Lonely Planet Acquisition Nathan presses on the financial details of TouristEye's exit, questioning why the sale price did not match the Series A target valuation. Ariel sets a polite boundary regarding confidentiality while providing industry context about competitor Gogobot's funding and VC skepticism.4:45–7:54 · Guest disagreement 1/10 Leading Digital Product Transformation at Lonely Planet Nathan inquires about Lonely Planet's digital transformation and the business model for Ariel's new venture HackerPath. Ariel explains the recruiter commission model, and Nathan clarifies that the startup is currently pre-revenue.7:54–10:34 · Guest disagreement 1/10 Evaluating Earn-Out Agreements and Career Decisions Post-Exit Nathan sets up a scenario about founders trapped in golden handcuffs and earn-out clauses, but Ariel educates him that his deal included no earn-out retainer at all. Nathan then probes into Ariel's exact salary and personal financial runway.10:34–13:14 · Guest disagreement 1/10 Bootstrapping HackerPath and Validating Code Roulette Ariel discusses launching Code Roulette to validate collaborative learning and keeping development lean. Nathan interrupts Ariel's product narrative to pin down the exact cash investment figure.13:20–14:57 · Guest disagreement 3/10 The Famous Five Rapid-Fire Questions with Ariel Camus Nathan runs through the rapid-fire questions, mistakenly thinking Ariel is 39 instead of 29. When Ariel states he had everything figured out at 19 and has no advice for his younger self, Nathan pushes back incredulously.1:31–4:45 · Nathan pushing back 5/10 TouristEye Background, Monetization, and Lonely Planet Acquisition Nathan presses on the financial details of TouristEye's exit, questioning why the sale price did not match the Series A target valuation. Ariel sets a polite boundary regarding confidentiality while providing industry context about competitor Gogobot's funding and VC skepticism.4:45–7:54 · Nathan pushing back 3/10 Leading Digital Product Transformation at Lonely Planet Nathan inquires about Lonely Planet's digital transformation and the business model for Ariel's new venture HackerPath. Ariel explains the recruiter commission model, and Nathan clarifies that the startup is currently pre-revenue.7:54–10:34 · Nathan pushing back 4/10 Evaluating Earn-Out Agreements and Career Decisions Post-Exit Nathan sets up a scenario about founders trapped in golden handcuffs and earn-out clauses, but Ariel educates him that his deal included no earn-out retainer at all. Nathan then probes into Ariel's exact salary and personal financial runway.10:34–13:14 · Nathan pushing back 3/10 Bootstrapping HackerPath and Validating Code Roulette Ariel discusses launching Code Roulette to validate collaborative learning and keeping development lean. Nathan interrupts Ariel's product narrative to pin down the exact cash investment figure.13:20–14:57 · Nathan pushing back 4/10 The Famous Five Rapid-Fire Questions with Ariel Camus Nathan runs through the rapid-fire questions, mistakenly thinking Ariel is 39 instead of 29. When Ariel states he had everything figured out at 19 and has no advice for his younger self, Nathan pushes back incredulously.

speaking balance: gold is Nathan, purple is the guest (3 minute bins)

0:00 · Nathan 61% · guest 39%0:00 · Nathan 61% · guest 39%3:00 · Nathan 14.8% · guest 85.2%3:00 · Nathan 14.8% · guest 85.2%6:00 · Nathan 16.9% · guest 83.1%6:00 · Nathan 16.9% · guest 83.1%9:00 · Nathan 18.1% · guest 81.9%9:00 · Nathan 18.1% · guest 81.9%12:00 · Nathan 61.8% · guest 38.2%12:00 · Nathan 61.8% · guest 38.2%15:00 · Nathan 100% · guest 0%15:00 · Nathan 100% · guest 0%
Sharpest disagreement ▶ 2:55 Ariel refuses to disclose acquisition figure

Ariel firmly pushes back against Nathan's attempt to box the acquisition price into the $6-7M range, refusing to disclose confidential terms while asserting investor satisfaction.

 Hardest push from Nathan ▶ 11:58 Nathan interrupts to get the exact capital amount

Nathan cuts through Ariel's broader discussion of technology integrations and launches to demand the specific dollar amount spent out of pocket.

 Biggest teaching moment ▶ 8:15 Ariel reveals there was no earn-out clause

Nathan frames a lengthy question assuming Ariel was tied down by an onerous earn-out clause, but Ariel clarifies his contract had zero monetary retention requirement.

 Nathan holds their own ▶ 3:10 Nathan drills on opportunity cost versus exit price

Nathan uses financial framing to challenge why Ariel accepted an acquisition price that differed from his Series A valuation expectations.
the scores for every segment, with the reasoning behind each
ChapterTopicNathan as informed peerGuest teachingGuest disagreementNathan pushing backWhy
TouristEye Background, Monetization, and Lonely Planet Acquisition 5425 Nathan presses on the financial details of TouristEye's exit, questioning why the sale price did not match the Series A target valuation. Ariel sets a polite boundary regarding confidentiality while providing industry context about competitor Gogobot's funding and VC skepticism.
Leading Digital Product Transformation at Lonely Planet 4313 Nathan inquires about Lonely Planet's digital transformation and the business model for Ariel's new venture HackerPath. Ariel explains the recruiter commission model, and Nathan clarifies that the startup is currently pre-revenue.
Evaluating Earn-Out Agreements and Career Decisions Post-Exit 4514 Nathan sets up a scenario about founders trapped in golden handcuffs and earn-out clauses, but Ariel educates him that his deal included no earn-out retainer at all. Nathan then probes into Ariel's exact salary and personal financial runway.
Bootstrapping HackerPath and Validating Code Roulette 3213 Ariel discusses launching Code Roulette to validate collaborative learning and keeping development lean. Nathan interrupts Ariel's product narrative to pin down the exact cash investment figure.
The Famous Five Rapid-Fire Questions with Ariel Camus 2334 Nathan runs through the rapid-fire questions, mistakenly thinking Ariel is 39 instead of 29. When Ariel states he had everything figured out at 19 and has no advice for his younger self, Nathan pushes back incredulously.

Statements from this episode (11)

Disclosure
Camus: TouristEye raised nearly $1M across two rounds before acquisition
“Yeah, we raised like, not, not a lot, like, close to one million dollars before the acquisition. The opportunity to got acquired got just when we were raising our Series A, and that million dollars that we raised that happened between two rounds, one in Europe…”
Ariel Camus Oct 22, 2016 ▶ 2:23
Disclosure
Camus: Lonely Planet acquired TouristEye for a seven-figure amount
“And I can't disclose the exact number, but it's a seven digits figure.”
Ariel Camus Oct 22, 2016 ▶ 3:05
Assertion Contradicted
Camus: Competitor Gogobot struggled despite raising $60M, souring VCs on travel
“And one of them had raised close to sixty million dollars. Which one? Gogobot. Yep. They put ads and a lot of people in a really tough place because even with that amount of money they had raised they were not doing great as a business.”
Ariel Camus Oct 22, 2016 ▶ 3:25
Disclosure
Camus: Lonely Planet reached out right as TouristEye sought buyers
“So that's why we decided to like kind of explore, ah, ways of joining a bigger company. And it was, ah, just by coincidence that Lonely Planet talked to us the week that I was exploring and talking about that opportunity with other companies.”
Ariel Camus Oct 22, 2016 ▶ 4:26
Disclosure
Camus: HackerPath is building a teacherless, project-based education platform
“So we're building a new platform that is online, that doesn't have any teachers, it doesn't have any classes, it's all project based. So we have teams of students that are collaborating and learning from each other while they're building real, real world produ…”
Ariel Camus Oct 22, 2016 ▶ 6:28
Disclosure
Camus: HackerPath plans to shift from subscriptions to hiring fees
“Initially we are charging, it's a subscription model where we are charging the students. But because our goal is to make this open to everyone, our vision is to eventually make this free to everyone. And the way we think we can do that is because our goal as a…”
Ariel Camus Oct 22, 2016 ▶ 7:13
Disclosure
Camus: TouristEye's acquisition by Lonely Planet included zero earn-out requirements
“We didn't have any kind of like retainer or any reason, like any monetary reason to stay working for Lonely Planet.”
Ariel Camus Oct 22, 2016 ▶ 8:16
Assertion Supported
Camus: TouristEye co-founder left Lonely Planet 3–4 months post-acquisition
“Actually my co-founder left the company, left Lonely Planet like three, three or four months after the acquisition.”
Ariel Camus Oct 22, 2016 ▶ 8:27
Insight
Camus: Founders should abandon post-acquisition earn-outs unless the money is life-changing
“Unless it's an amount of money that will change the rest of your life, and you don't have any savings, maybe, maybe I would say it's worth spending two or three years of your life working on something that is, like, not the best thing you can be doing, but oth…”
Ariel Camus Oct 22, 2016 ▶ 8:41
Disclosure
Camus: Earns roughly $150K as a product leader at Lonely Planet
“Oh, it's like in the six digit figures. So it's a good salary to have a good life in an expensive city like San Francisco. It's not like a managerial salary that is making me rich.”
Ariel Camus Oct 22, 2016 ▶ 10:07
Disclosure
Camus: Has invested $10,000 to $15,000 of personal money into HackerPath
“Oh, like 10, 15,000.”
Ariel Camus Oct 22, 2016 ▶ 12:01
Made with StarZero

Turn any episode into a week of clips.

This entire site, over 2,600 episodes transcribed, diarized, checked and made playable, runs on the StarZero media pipeline. Drop in your own episode and the podcast clipper finds the moments worth sharing, cuts them, captions them, and reframes them for every feed.

Try the podcast clipper Learn more