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Nov 29, 2016 · 23m · top-founders

EP 493: DocHub $90k MRR, 15M Users To Make Document Signing Easy with CEO Chris Devor

Chris Devore · 10m spoken Nathan Latka · 9m spoken
0:00 / 0:00

gold bands on the timeline = statements, start to end. Hover to read, click to jump. CC turns on captions

In this episode of The Top, host Nathan Latka interviews DocHub CEO Chris Devore to explore how the bootstrapped document-signing platform scaled to 15 million users and over $90,000 in monthly recurring revenue. Devore discusses his freemium monetization model, Google ecosystem distribution, lean five-person team structure, and company valuation dynamics.

How this conversation actually went

Every chapter scored 0–10 on four independent dynamics. Hover any point for the reasoning behind the score. Nathan holds 46.9% of the talking time here. How this is scored →

Nathan as informed peer 5.3 Guest teaching 2.7 Guest disagreement 2.2 Nathan pushing back 3.7
05100:0010:0020:001:34–4:52 · Nathan as informed peer 5/10 DocHub Origin Story and Digital Document Signing Solution Nathan introduces Chris Devore and explores DocHub's origin and Chrome store growth. When Chris mentions 15 million users, Nathan probes into what constitutes an active user versus one-time document signers.4:53–8:56 · Nathan as informed peer 6/10 Monetization Strategy and Freemium Paywall Implementation Chris looks up metrics live on air to explain the freemium paywall. Nathan tries to extrapolate monthly revenue from user count, but Chris clarifies that annual upfront subscriptions raise their actual run-rate to 95k monthly.8:58–12:06 · Nathan as informed peer 5/10 Bootstrapping via Macroplant and Engineering Team Structure Nathan drills into Chris's team structure and churn metrics via Baremetrics. Nathan offers analysis on how free trial auto-billing impacts apparent cancellation rates.12:07–14:25 · Nathan as informed peer 5/10 Web Traffic Rankings and Acquisition Considerations Chris cites DocHub's high Alexa rank to argue for massive untapped organic value. When Nathan asks about investing, Chris establishes a firm boundary by stating he is not open to partial investments, only a full acquisition.14:26–18:57 · Nathan as informed peer 8/10 Live Valuation Negotiation: Investment Proposals vs Full Buyout Offers Nathan theatrically writes a 200k check on air and offers growth consulting for equity, which Chris anchors at a 10 million valuation (giving Nathan only 2%). Nathan pushes back hard on valuation multiples given 7 percent churn, proposing a 5 million buyout instead.18:58–22:12 · Nathan as informed peer 3/10 Sponsor Read: Maximizing Interview Productivity with Acuity Scheduling Nathan delivers a mid-show sponsor read for Acuity Scheduling and conducts the rapid-fire Famous Five questionnaire.1:34–4:52 · Guest teaching 3/10 DocHub Origin Story and Digital Document Signing Solution Nathan introduces Chris Devore and explores DocHub's origin and Chrome store growth. When Chris mentions 15 million users, Nathan probes into what constitutes an active user versus one-time document signers.4:53–8:56 · Guest teaching 4/10 Monetization Strategy and Freemium Paywall Implementation Chris looks up metrics live on air to explain the freemium paywall. Nathan tries to extrapolate monthly revenue from user count, but Chris clarifies that annual upfront subscriptions raise their actual run-rate to 95k monthly.8:58–12:06 · Guest teaching 2/10 Bootstrapping via Macroplant and Engineering Team Structure Nathan drills into Chris's team structure and churn metrics via Baremetrics. Nathan offers analysis on how free trial auto-billing impacts apparent cancellation rates.12:07–14:25 · Guest teaching 2/10 Web Traffic Rankings and Acquisition Considerations Chris cites DocHub's high Alexa rank to argue for massive untapped organic value. When Nathan asks about investing, Chris establishes a firm boundary by stating he is not open to partial investments, only a full acquisition.14:26–18:57 · Guest teaching 4/10 Live Valuation Negotiation: Investment Proposals vs Full Buyout Offers Nathan theatrically writes a 200k check on air and offers growth consulting for equity, which Chris anchors at a 10 million valuation (giving Nathan only 2%). Nathan pushes back hard on valuation multiples given 7 percent churn, proposing a 5 million buyout instead.18:58–22:12 · Guest teaching 1/10 Sponsor Read: Maximizing Interview Productivity with Acuity Scheduling Nathan delivers a mid-show sponsor read for Acuity Scheduling and conducts the rapid-fire Famous Five questionnaire.1:34–4:52 · Guest disagreement 1/10 DocHub Origin Story and Digital Document Signing Solution Nathan introduces Chris Devore and explores DocHub's origin and Chrome store growth. When Chris mentions 15 million users, Nathan probes into what constitutes an active user versus one-time document signers.4:53–8:56 · Guest disagreement 2/10 Monetization Strategy and Freemium Paywall Implementation Chris looks up metrics live on air to explain the freemium paywall. Nathan tries to extrapolate monthly revenue from user count, but Chris clarifies that annual upfront subscriptions raise their actual run-rate to 95k monthly.8:58–12:06 · Guest disagreement 1/10 Bootstrapping via Macroplant and Engineering Team Structure Nathan drills into Chris's team structure and churn metrics via Baremetrics. Nathan offers analysis on how free trial auto-billing impacts apparent cancellation rates.12:07–14:25 · Guest disagreement 3/10 Web Traffic Rankings and Acquisition Considerations Chris cites DocHub's high Alexa rank to argue for massive untapped organic value. When Nathan asks about investing, Chris establishes a firm boundary by stating he is not open to partial investments, only a full acquisition.14:26–18:57 · Guest disagreement 5/10 Live Valuation Negotiation: Investment Proposals vs Full Buyout Offers Nathan theatrically writes a 200k check on air and offers growth consulting for equity, which Chris anchors at a 10 million valuation (giving Nathan only 2%). Nathan pushes back hard on valuation multiples given 7 percent churn, proposing a 5 million buyout instead.18:58–22:12 · Guest disagreement 1/10 Sponsor Read: Maximizing Interview Productivity with Acuity Scheduling Nathan delivers a mid-show sponsor read for Acuity Scheduling and conducts the rapid-fire Famous Five questionnaire.1:34–4:52 · Nathan pushing back 3/10 DocHub Origin Story and Digital Document Signing Solution Nathan introduces Chris Devore and explores DocHub's origin and Chrome store growth. When Chris mentions 15 million users, Nathan probes into what constitutes an active user versus one-time document signers.4:53–8:56 · Nathan pushing back 4/10 Monetization Strategy and Freemium Paywall Implementation Chris looks up metrics live on air to explain the freemium paywall. Nathan tries to extrapolate monthly revenue from user count, but Chris clarifies that annual upfront subscriptions raise their actual run-rate to 95k monthly.8:58–12:06 · Nathan pushing back 3/10 Bootstrapping via Macroplant and Engineering Team Structure Nathan drills into Chris's team structure and churn metrics via Baremetrics. Nathan offers analysis on how free trial auto-billing impacts apparent cancellation rates.12:07–14:25 · Nathan pushing back 4/10 Web Traffic Rankings and Acquisition Considerations Chris cites DocHub's high Alexa rank to argue for massive untapped organic value. When Nathan asks about investing, Chris establishes a firm boundary by stating he is not open to partial investments, only a full acquisition.14:26–18:57 · Nathan pushing back 7/10 Live Valuation Negotiation: Investment Proposals vs Full Buyout Offers Nathan theatrically writes a 200k check on air and offers growth consulting for equity, which Chris anchors at a 10 million valuation (giving Nathan only 2%). Nathan pushes back hard on valuation multiples given 7 percent churn, proposing a 5 million buyout instead.18:58–22:12 · Nathan pushing back 1/10 Sponsor Read: Maximizing Interview Productivity with Acuity Scheduling Nathan delivers a mid-show sponsor read for Acuity Scheduling and conducts the rapid-fire Famous Five questionnaire.

speaking balance: gold is Nathan, purple is the guest (3 minute bins)

0:00 · Nathan 68.7% · guest 31.3%0:00 · Nathan 68.7% · guest 31.3%3:00 · Nathan 18.7% · guest 81.3%3:00 · Nathan 18.7% · guest 81.3%6:00 · Nathan 28% · guest 72%6:00 · Nathan 28% · guest 72%9:00 · Nathan 34.2% · guest 65.8%9:00 · Nathan 34.2% · guest 65.8%12:00 · Nathan 35.4% · guest 64.6%12:00 · Nathan 35.4% · guest 64.6%15:00 · Nathan 56.8% · guest 43.2%15:00 · Nathan 56.8% · guest 43.2%18:00 · Nathan 79.2% · guest 20.8%18:00 · Nathan 79.2% · guest 20.8%21:00 · Nathan 56.1% · guest 43.9%21:00 · Nathan 56.1% · guest 43.9%
Sharpest disagreement ▶ 17:27 Chris defends valuation against ARR multiple math

Chris rejects Nathan's standard SaaS multiple framework by arguing that DocHub went from zero to a million run rate in twelve months, making trailing revenue multiples misleading.

 Hardest push from Nathan ▶ 16:35 Nathan challenges the ten million dollar valuation

Nathan refuses Chris's ten million valuation anchor, citing seven percent monthly churn and offering a five million buyout as a more realistic multiple.

 Biggest teaching moment ▶ 7:51 Chris corrects Nathan's revenue estimate

When Nathan calculates monthly revenue at 35k based on basic tiers, Chris educates him on how annual plan cash collection brings their monthly figure to 95k.

 Nathan holds their own ▶ 16:35 Nathan breaks down SaaS unit economics live

Nathan demonstrates financial mastery by deconstructing DocHub's 1.2M ARR, 9x revenue multiple, and churn risk to counter Chris's asking price.
the scores for every segment, with the reasoning behind each
ChapterTopicNathan as informed peerGuest teachingGuest disagreementNathan pushing backWhy
DocHub Origin Story and Digital Document Signing Solution 5313 Nathan introduces Chris Devore and explores DocHub's origin and Chrome store growth. When Chris mentions 15 million users, Nathan probes into what constitutes an active user versus one-time document signers.
Monetization Strategy and Freemium Paywall Implementation 6424 Chris looks up metrics live on air to explain the freemium paywall. Nathan tries to extrapolate monthly revenue from user count, but Chris clarifies that annual upfront subscriptions raise their actual run-rate to 95k monthly.
Bootstrapping via Macroplant and Engineering Team Structure 5213 Nathan drills into Chris's team structure and churn metrics via Baremetrics. Nathan offers analysis on how free trial auto-billing impacts apparent cancellation rates.
Web Traffic Rankings and Acquisition Considerations 5234 Chris cites DocHub's high Alexa rank to argue for massive untapped organic value. When Nathan asks about investing, Chris establishes a firm boundary by stating he is not open to partial investments, only a full acquisition.
Live Valuation Negotiation: Investment Proposals vs Full Buyout Offers 8457 Nathan theatrically writes a 200k check on air and offers growth consulting for equity, which Chris anchors at a 10 million valuation (giving Nathan only 2%). Nathan pushes back hard on valuation multiples given 7 percent churn, proposing a 5 million buyout instead.
Sponsor Read: Maximizing Interview Productivity with Acuity Scheduling 3111 Nathan delivers a mid-show sponsor read for Acuity Scheduling and conducts the rapid-fire Famous Five questionnaire.

Statements from this episode (11)

Assertion Not checkable as stated
Devore: DocHub reached 15 million users and 50 million uploaded documents
“We have basically fifteen million users right now with fifty million documents that have been uploaded.”
Chris Devore Nov 29, 2016 ▶ 4:02
Assertion Not checkable as stated
Devore: DocHub records 2.6M monthly active users on Google Analytics
“In the last 30 days, according to Google analytics, I think we're at about maybe 2.6 million users and, you know, five you know, plus million maybe documents or sections.”
Chris Devore Nov 29, 2016 ▶ 4:28
Assertion Supported
Devore: DocHub charges $7 monthly, less than half of competitors
“Like seven dollars a month or something. And you know, that doesn't, that's basically you know, less than half of what most people are charging for the same thing.”
Chris Devore Nov 29, 2016 ▶ 6:28
Assertion Not checkable as stated
Devore: DocHub generates $90,000 to $95,000 in monthly recurring revenue
“When you factor in the annual guys you know, we're doing about 90 95 thousand a month.”
Chris Devore Nov 29, 2016 ▶ 8:05
Disclosure
Devore: DocHub is entirely funded and owned by his prior startup Macroplant
“The money from doc hub is coming from our my previous venture from macro plant. Well, actually it's a, you know, entirely owned by macro plant.”
Chris Devore Nov 29, 2016 ▶ 9:04
Disclosure
Devore: DocHub supports its massive user base with a five-person team
“We've got about five other people on the team. And so we've got support guys web guys and developers”
Chris Devore Nov 29, 2016 ▶ 9:37
Assertion Not checkable as stated
Devore: DocHub recorded 1,600 new subscriptions and 650 cancellations last month
“Alright, so it looks like in the last 30 days we have 1600 new subscriptions and 650 cancellations.”
Chris Devore Nov 29, 2016 ▶ 10:56
Disclosure
Devore: DocHub would consider full acquisition but rejects minority investments
“I mean, you know, if there's a buyer out there who's interested in in, you know, has a good a solid price for doc hub, you know, I'd listen to the offer and you know, but I don't think we want to you know, I don't think we're in a situation where we need to be…”
Chris Devore Nov 29, 2016 ▶ 14:01
Opinion
Devore: DocHub internally targets a $10 million valuation
“I still like the you know, a ten million dollar valuation on it.”
Chris Devore Nov 29, 2016 ▶ 15:58
Disclosure
Devore: DocHub remains 100% founder-owned to avoid cap table complexity
“Right now it's a hundred percent owned which just makes everything. Yeah, exactly. It adds, you know, a lot more than 200,000 dollars of complexity into the picture.”
Chris Devore Nov 29, 2016 ▶ 16:21
Assertion Not checkable as stated
Devore: DocHub grew from zero to $1M ARR in one year
“Let's go back a year ago where we were making literally zero dollars a month. And what would you value it a year ago? You know, so a year ago by that math, it would have been worth nothing. And now all of a sudden we, you know, we have a million dollars coming…”
Chris Devore Nov 29, 2016 ▶ 17:50
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