Aug 14, 2017 · 23m · top-founders

751: IoT Electricity Measuring King Raises $16m w/ $1.2 Million Revenue

Nathan Latka · 11m spoken Mark Chung · 10m spoken
0:00 / 0:00

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Verdigris co-founder and CEO Mark Chung joins Nathan Latka to discuss how his startup combines IoT sensor clamps and AI analytics to optimize commercial building energy management. Chung breaks down the company's hybrid hardware-SaaS economics, near-zero churn rates, $260,000 monthly recurring revenue, and enterprise channel distribution through Verizon.

How this conversation actually went

Every chapter scored 0–10 on four independent dynamics. Hover any point for the reasoning behind the score. Nathan holds 51.9% of the talking time here. How this is scored →

Nathan as informed peer 4.0 Guest teaching 3.0 Guest disagreement 0.2 Nathan pushing back 2.0
05100:0010:0020:001:33–4:03 · Nathan as informed peer 3/10 Exploring Verdigris IoT Sensors and Energy Tracking Nathan asks introductory and exploratory questions regarding the company's origin and hardware setup. Mark explains how the sensor clamps and iPhone-like hub gather data from electrical panels to cut commercial building energy costs.4:03–8:12 · Nathan as informed peer 6/10 Monetization Strategy, Venture Capital, and Hardware Economics Nathan presses Mark on the unit economics of treating hardware as a break-even loss leader with high COGS while relying on VC funding. Mark explains the strategic value of hardware-enabled SaaS, detailing how physical integration creates a defensive moat and minimizes churn.8:13–13:32 · Nathan as informed peer 7/10 Key Operating Metrics, Pricing Tiers, and SaaS MRR Nathan interrogates the pricing structure and uses Mark's deployment numbers to calculate that roughly 240 paying customers at $1,000 per month yields around $260k in monthly recurring revenue. Mark confirms the arithmetic and elaborates on the carrier data infrastructure.13:33–18:47 · Nathan as informed peer 5/10 Customer ROI, Engineering Team, and Verizon Partnership Nathan drills into customer acquisition costs, ad spend, and revenue targets. Mark explains their unique distribution partnership where Verizon's enterprise sales team acts as a massive inbound referral engine.18:47–20:48 · Nathan as informed peer 0/10 Promotional Announcements for Latka Database and TheTopInbox Nathan delivers a solo promotional read for GetLatka and TheTopInbox. As a monologue segment, all interaction scores are set to zero.20:48–22:41 · Nathan as informed peer 3/10 Famous Five Rapid-Fire Questions with Mark Chung Nathan runs through the Famous Five rapid-fire format. When Mark mentions wishing he had been more growth-minded, Nathan pushes for clarification, allowing Mark to reflect on personal development versus innate ability.1:33–4:03 · Guest teaching 3/10 Exploring Verdigris IoT Sensors and Energy Tracking Nathan asks introductory and exploratory questions regarding the company's origin and hardware setup. Mark explains how the sensor clamps and iPhone-like hub gather data from electrical panels to cut commercial building energy costs.4:03–8:12 · Guest teaching 5/10 Monetization Strategy, Venture Capital, and Hardware Economics Nathan presses Mark on the unit economics of treating hardware as a break-even loss leader with high COGS while relying on VC funding. Mark explains the strategic value of hardware-enabled SaaS, detailing how physical integration creates a defensive moat and minimizes churn.8:13–13:32 · Guest teaching 4/10 Key Operating Metrics, Pricing Tiers, and SaaS MRR Nathan interrogates the pricing structure and uses Mark's deployment numbers to calculate that roughly 240 paying customers at $1,000 per month yields around $260k in monthly recurring revenue. Mark confirms the arithmetic and elaborates on the carrier data infrastructure.13:33–18:47 · Guest teaching 4/10 Customer ROI, Engineering Team, and Verizon Partnership Nathan drills into customer acquisition costs, ad spend, and revenue targets. Mark explains their unique distribution partnership where Verizon's enterprise sales team acts as a massive inbound referral engine.18:47–20:48 · Guest teaching 0/10 Promotional Announcements for Latka Database and TheTopInbox Nathan delivers a solo promotional read for GetLatka and TheTopInbox. As a monologue segment, all interaction scores are set to zero.20:48–22:41 · Guest teaching 2/10 Famous Five Rapid-Fire Questions with Mark Chung Nathan runs through the Famous Five rapid-fire format. When Mark mentions wishing he had been more growth-minded, Nathan pushes for clarification, allowing Mark to reflect on personal development versus innate ability.1:33–4:03 · Guest disagreement 0/10 Exploring Verdigris IoT Sensors and Energy Tracking Nathan asks introductory and exploratory questions regarding the company's origin and hardware setup. Mark explains how the sensor clamps and iPhone-like hub gather data from electrical panels to cut commercial building energy costs.4:03–8:12 · Guest disagreement 1/10 Monetization Strategy, Venture Capital, and Hardware Economics Nathan presses Mark on the unit economics of treating hardware as a break-even loss leader with high COGS while relying on VC funding. Mark explains the strategic value of hardware-enabled SaaS, detailing how physical integration creates a defensive moat and minimizes churn.8:13–13:32 · Guest disagreement 0/10 Key Operating Metrics, Pricing Tiers, and SaaS MRR Nathan interrogates the pricing structure and uses Mark's deployment numbers to calculate that roughly 240 paying customers at $1,000 per month yields around $260k in monthly recurring revenue. Mark confirms the arithmetic and elaborates on the carrier data infrastructure.13:33–18:47 · Guest disagreement 0/10 Customer ROI, Engineering Team, and Verizon Partnership Nathan drills into customer acquisition costs, ad spend, and revenue targets. Mark explains their unique distribution partnership where Verizon's enterprise sales team acts as a massive inbound referral engine.18:47–20:48 · Guest disagreement 0/10 Promotional Announcements for Latka Database and TheTopInbox Nathan delivers a solo promotional read for GetLatka and TheTopInbox. As a monologue segment, all interaction scores are set to zero.20:48–22:41 · Guest disagreement 0/10 Famous Five Rapid-Fire Questions with Mark Chung Nathan runs through the Famous Five rapid-fire format. When Mark mentions wishing he had been more growth-minded, Nathan pushes for clarification, allowing Mark to reflect on personal development versus innate ability.1:33–4:03 · Nathan pushing back 1/10 Exploring Verdigris IoT Sensors and Energy Tracking Nathan asks introductory and exploratory questions regarding the company's origin and hardware setup. Mark explains how the sensor clamps and iPhone-like hub gather data from electrical panels to cut commercial building energy costs.4:03–8:12 · Nathan pushing back 4/10 Monetization Strategy, Venture Capital, and Hardware Economics Nathan presses Mark on the unit economics of treating hardware as a break-even loss leader with high COGS while relying on VC funding. Mark explains the strategic value of hardware-enabled SaaS, detailing how physical integration creates a defensive moat and minimizes churn.8:13–13:32 · Nathan pushing back 3/10 Key Operating Metrics, Pricing Tiers, and SaaS MRR Nathan interrogates the pricing structure and uses Mark's deployment numbers to calculate that roughly 240 paying customers at $1,000 per month yields around $260k in monthly recurring revenue. Mark confirms the arithmetic and elaborates on the carrier data infrastructure.13:33–18:47 · Nathan pushing back 3/10 Customer ROI, Engineering Team, and Verizon Partnership Nathan drills into customer acquisition costs, ad spend, and revenue targets. Mark explains their unique distribution partnership where Verizon's enterprise sales team acts as a massive inbound referral engine.18:47–20:48 · Nathan pushing back 0/10 Promotional Announcements for Latka Database and TheTopInbox Nathan delivers a solo promotional read for GetLatka and TheTopInbox. As a monologue segment, all interaction scores are set to zero.20:48–22:41 · Nathan pushing back 1/10 Famous Five Rapid-Fire Questions with Mark Chung Nathan runs through the Famous Five rapid-fire format. When Mark mentions wishing he had been more growth-minded, Nathan pushes for clarification, allowing Mark to reflect on personal development versus innate ability.

speaking balance: gold is Nathan, purple is the guest (3 minute bins)

0:00 · Nathan 64.1% · guest 35.9%0:00 · Nathan 64.1% · guest 35.9%3:00 · Nathan 28.7% · guest 71.3%3:00 · Nathan 28.7% · guest 71.3%6:00 · Nathan 37.3% · guest 62.7%6:00 · Nathan 37.3% · guest 62.7%9:00 · Nathan 44.9% · guest 55.1%9:00 · Nathan 44.9% · guest 55.1%12:00 · Nathan 59.3% · guest 40.7%12:00 · Nathan 59.3% · guest 40.7%15:00 · Nathan 26.5% · guest 73.5%15:00 · Nathan 26.5% · guest 73.5%18:00 · Nathan 84.5% · guest 15.5%18:00 · Nathan 84.5% · guest 15.5%21:00 · Nathan 69.8% · guest 30.2%21:00 · Nathan 69.8% · guest 30.2%
Sharpest disagreement ▶ 6:45 Reframing hardware loss leaders as SaaS retention drivers

Mark directly challenges the assumption that hardware is an undesirable drag on SaaS multiples, arguing it makes customer churn practically non-existent.

Hardest push from Nathan ▶ 6:10 Pressing on 100% hardware COGS and venture dependency

Nathan challenges Mark's business model, questioning how he convinces investors to fund hardware that generates no margin.

Biggest teaching moment ▶ 6:45 Explaining the defensive moat of hardware-enabled software

Mark educates Nathan on why pure-play SaaS is fragile and easily replaced, whereas physical hardware installations secure near-permanent customer retention.

Nathan holds their own ▶ 12:34 Deconstructing paying customer ratio to establish true MRR

Nathan synthesizes disjointed figures—300 units, an 80% paying rate, and $1,000 average spend—to immediately surface the $260k monthly run rate.

the scores for every segment, with the reasoning behind each
ChapterTopicNathan as informed peerGuest teachingGuest disagreementNathan pushing backWhy
Exploring Verdigris IoT Sensors and Energy Tracking 3301 Nathan asks introductory and exploratory questions regarding the company's origin and hardware setup. Mark explains how the sensor clamps and iPhone-like hub gather data from electrical panels to cut commercial building energy costs.
Monetization Strategy, Venture Capital, and Hardware Economics 6514 Nathan presses Mark on the unit economics of treating hardware as a break-even loss leader with high COGS while relying on VC funding. Mark explains the strategic value of hardware-enabled SaaS, detailing how physical integration creates a defensive moat and minimizes churn.
Key Operating Metrics, Pricing Tiers, and SaaS MRR 7403 Nathan interrogates the pricing structure and uses Mark's deployment numbers to calculate that roughly 240 paying customers at $1,000 per month yields around $260k in monthly recurring revenue. Mark confirms the arithmetic and elaborates on the carrier data infrastructure.
Customer ROI, Engineering Team, and Verizon Partnership 5403 Nathan drills into customer acquisition costs, ad spend, and revenue targets. Mark explains their unique distribution partnership where Verizon's enterprise sales team acts as a massive inbound referral engine.
Promotional Announcements for Latka Database and TheTopInbox 0000 Nathan delivers a solo promotional read for GetLatka and TheTopInbox. As a monologue segment, all interaction scores are set to zero.
Famous Five Rapid-Fire Questions with Mark Chung 3201 Nathan runs through the Famous Five rapid-fire format. When Mark mentions wishing he had been more growth-minded, Nathan pushes for clarification, allowing Mark to reflect on personal development versus innate ability.

Statements from this episode (10)

Assertion Supported
Jabil claims Verdigris reduced its operational costs by 50 percent
“And in fact, they've come out and said that we've saved about 50% of their operational costs through using our solution.”
Mark Chung Aug 14, 2017 ▶ 3:01
Disclosure
Verdigris treats its hardware as a loss leader for SaaS revenue
“We don't make money on the hardware.”
Mark Chung Aug 14, 2017 ▶ 5:39
Disclosure
Verdigris has raised approximately $16 million in venture funding
“Today, about sixteen million.”
Mark Chung Aug 14, 2017 ▶ 5:54
Insight
Chung argues hardware-enabled SaaS products have significantly lower customer churn
“Well, the beauty of what we do is because we have a hardware component that enables the SAS, it becomes a very sticky SAS-like product. So while there is a loss leader or basically a static component that's kind of a wash that enables a much, you can think of …”
Mark Chung Aug 14, 2017 ▶ 7:08
Assertion Not checkable as stated
Verdigris has deployed approximately 300 hub devices
“Yeah, about 300 today.”
Mark Chung Aug 14, 2017 ▶ 9:14
Disclosure
Verdigris plans a residential product under $10 per month via utilities
“We do intend to roll out a plan probably in partnership with the utility in the next few years that would allow us to Put this in people's homes for, you know, hopefully under 10 dollars a month or something at an acceptable cost.”
Mark Chung Aug 14, 2017 ▶ 11:35
Assertion Not checkable as stated
Verdigris reports having essentially zero gross customer churn
“It's essentially zero today.”
Mark Chung Aug 14, 2017 ▶ 13:24
Insight
Verdigris targets enterprise customers spending at least $10,000 monthly on electricity
“General rule of thumb is that we look for people who've spent, spend about 10,000 dollars a month on electricity.”
Mark Chung Aug 14, 2017 ▶ 14:43
Assertion Not checkable as stated
Verdigris maintains a 90 percent engineering ratio on its 30-person team
“It's about 90% engineering.”
Mark Chung Aug 14, 2017 ▶ 15:04
Assertion Not checkable as stated
Verizon leverages 900 enterprise sales reps to pitch Verdigris IoT solutions
“So Verizon, because we are a Verizon preferred partner they have a sales team of about 900 people that are out in the field talking to their Fortune 500, Fortune 2000 customers selling ranges of IOT solutions from video surveillance to telematics to energy man…”
Mark Chung Aug 14, 2017 ▶ 16:55
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