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Aug 18, 2017 · 36m · top-founders

755: Want to Invest in BitCoin But Don't Understand It? Listen to This.

Tom Kineshanko · 19m spoken Nathan Latka · 12m spoken
0:00 / 0:00

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In this episode of 'The Top,' host Nathan Latka interviews early cryptocurrency investor and Walter.ai founder Tom Kineshanko to demystify blockchain technology, token economics, and digital asset investing. Kineshanko outlines practical entry steps for beginners, frameworks for evaluating initial coin offerings and fund managers, and the importance of decentralized market intelligence.

How this conversation actually went

Every chapter scored 0–10 on four independent dynamics. Hover any point for the reasoning behind the score. Nathan holds 38.9% of the talking time here. How this is scored →

Nathan as informed peer 1.9 Guest teaching 4.6 Guest disagreement 0.6 Nathan pushing back 1.6
05100:0010:0020:0030:002:10–7:18 · Nathan as informed peer 2/10 Walter.ai and the Need for Crypto Market Intelligence Latka admits he has little background and attempts a basic analogy comparing blockchain to random keystrokes. Kineshanko politely steps back to explain the foundational architecture of decentralized secure value transfer and how public ledgers can actually be traced.7:20–10:16 · Nathan as informed peer 2/10 Digital Gold, Token Varieties, and the Role of Ethereum Latka tests comparisons like coins in a wallet and geopolitical drivers. Kineshanko reframes tokens as national currencies and introduces Ethereum as the WordPress of blockchains.10:17–13:46 · Nathan as informed peer 1/10 Practical Steps for Beginners: Coinbase and Poloniex Latka acts as a complete novice, following instructions live to set up accounts on Coinbase and Poloniex. Kineshanko acts as an instructive guide.13:46–19:37 · Nathan as informed peer 3/10 Cryptoeconomics, Incentive Systems, and Liquid Venture Capital Latka brings up the pick-and-shovel business model and compares micro-economies to Neopets. Kineshanko expands on crypto incentives, mining town dynamics, and liquid venture capital.19:39–25:34 · Nathan as informed peer 3/10 Decoding Tokens, Proof of Work, and Network Participation Latka attempts to define parent-child relationships between tokens and blockchains, prompting Kineshanko to clarify that blockchains act as protocol layers rather than containers.25:35–30:54 · Nathan as informed peer 4/10 Market Euphoria, ICO Due Diligence, and Fund Strategies Latka presents an intelligent scenario about vetting an index fund manager pitching him. Kineshanko provides diligence frameworks around information asymmetry, pre-sale access, and exit liquidity.30:54–33:15 · Nathan as informed peer 1/10 Walter.ai’s Crowdsourced Research Model A brief explanation of Walter.ai's crowdsourced research model followed by promotional host ad reads.33:16–35:33 · Nathan as informed peer 1/10 The Famous Five Rapid-Fire Questions Latka conducts the standard rapid-fire Famous Five questionnaire, engaging in casual personal banter.35:33–36:14 · Nathan as informed peer 0/10 Episode Recap and Next Day Preview A solo outro monologue summarizing key takeaways from the conversation and previewing the next episode.2:10–7:18 · Guest teaching 7/10 Walter.ai and the Need for Crypto Market Intelligence Latka admits he has little background and attempts a basic analogy comparing blockchain to random keystrokes. Kineshanko politely steps back to explain the foundational architecture of decentralized secure value transfer and how public ledgers can actually be traced.7:20–10:16 · Guest teaching 6/10 Digital Gold, Token Varieties, and the Role of Ethereum Latka tests comparisons like coins in a wallet and geopolitical drivers. Kineshanko reframes tokens as national currencies and introduces Ethereum as the WordPress of blockchains.10:17–13:46 · Guest teaching 5/10 Practical Steps for Beginners: Coinbase and Poloniex Latka acts as a complete novice, following instructions live to set up accounts on Coinbase and Poloniex. Kineshanko acts as an instructive guide.13:46–19:37 · Guest teaching 6/10 Cryptoeconomics, Incentive Systems, and Liquid Venture Capital Latka brings up the pick-and-shovel business model and compares micro-economies to Neopets. Kineshanko expands on crypto incentives, mining town dynamics, and liquid venture capital.19:39–25:34 · Guest teaching 7/10 Decoding Tokens, Proof of Work, and Network Participation Latka attempts to define parent-child relationships between tokens and blockchains, prompting Kineshanko to clarify that blockchains act as protocol layers rather than containers.25:35–30:54 · Guest teaching 6/10 Market Euphoria, ICO Due Diligence, and Fund Strategies Latka presents an intelligent scenario about vetting an index fund manager pitching him. Kineshanko provides diligence frameworks around information asymmetry, pre-sale access, and exit liquidity.30:54–33:15 · Guest teaching 2/10 Walter.ai’s Crowdsourced Research Model A brief explanation of Walter.ai's crowdsourced research model followed by promotional host ad reads.33:16–35:33 · Guest teaching 2/10 The Famous Five Rapid-Fire Questions Latka conducts the standard rapid-fire Famous Five questionnaire, engaging in casual personal banter.35:33–36:14 · Guest teaching 0/10 Episode Recap and Next Day Preview A solo outro monologue summarizing key takeaways from the conversation and previewing the next episode.2:10–7:18 · Guest disagreement 1/10 Walter.ai and the Need for Crypto Market Intelligence Latka admits he has little background and attempts a basic analogy comparing blockchain to random keystrokes. Kineshanko politely steps back to explain the foundational architecture of decentralized secure value transfer and how public ledgers can actually be traced.7:20–10:16 · Guest disagreement 1/10 Digital Gold, Token Varieties, and the Role of Ethereum Latka tests comparisons like coins in a wallet and geopolitical drivers. Kineshanko reframes tokens as national currencies and introduces Ethereum as the WordPress of blockchains.10:17–13:46 · Guest disagreement 0/10 Practical Steps for Beginners: Coinbase and Poloniex Latka acts as a complete novice, following instructions live to set up accounts on Coinbase and Poloniex. Kineshanko acts as an instructive guide.13:46–19:37 · Guest disagreement 1/10 Cryptoeconomics, Incentive Systems, and Liquid Venture Capital Latka brings up the pick-and-shovel business model and compares micro-economies to Neopets. Kineshanko expands on crypto incentives, mining town dynamics, and liquid venture capital.19:39–25:34 · Guest disagreement 1/10 Decoding Tokens, Proof of Work, and Network Participation Latka attempts to define parent-child relationships between tokens and blockchains, prompting Kineshanko to clarify that blockchains act as protocol layers rather than containers.25:35–30:54 · Guest disagreement 1/10 Market Euphoria, ICO Due Diligence, and Fund Strategies Latka presents an intelligent scenario about vetting an index fund manager pitching him. Kineshanko provides diligence frameworks around information asymmetry, pre-sale access, and exit liquidity.30:54–33:15 · Guest disagreement 0/10 Walter.ai’s Crowdsourced Research Model A brief explanation of Walter.ai's crowdsourced research model followed by promotional host ad reads.33:16–35:33 · Guest disagreement 0/10 The Famous Five Rapid-Fire Questions Latka conducts the standard rapid-fire Famous Five questionnaire, engaging in casual personal banter.35:33–36:14 · Guest disagreement 0/10 Episode Recap and Next Day Preview A solo outro monologue summarizing key takeaways from the conversation and previewing the next episode.2:10–7:18 · Nathan pushing back 3/10 Walter.ai and the Need for Crypto Market Intelligence Latka admits he has little background and attempts a basic analogy comparing blockchain to random keystrokes. Kineshanko politely steps back to explain the foundational architecture of decentralized secure value transfer and how public ledgers can actually be traced.7:20–10:16 · Nathan pushing back 2/10 Digital Gold, Token Varieties, and the Role of Ethereum Latka tests comparisons like coins in a wallet and geopolitical drivers. Kineshanko reframes tokens as national currencies and introduces Ethereum as the WordPress of blockchains.10:17–13:46 · Nathan pushing back 1/10 Practical Steps for Beginners: Coinbase and Poloniex Latka acts as a complete novice, following instructions live to set up accounts on Coinbase and Poloniex. Kineshanko acts as an instructive guide.13:46–19:37 · Nathan pushing back 2/10 Cryptoeconomics, Incentive Systems, and Liquid Venture Capital Latka brings up the pick-and-shovel business model and compares micro-economies to Neopets. Kineshanko expands on crypto incentives, mining town dynamics, and liquid venture capital.19:39–25:34 · Nathan pushing back 3/10 Decoding Tokens, Proof of Work, and Network Participation Latka attempts to define parent-child relationships between tokens and blockchains, prompting Kineshanko to clarify that blockchains act as protocol layers rather than containers.25:35–30:54 · Nathan pushing back 2/10 Market Euphoria, ICO Due Diligence, and Fund Strategies Latka presents an intelligent scenario about vetting an index fund manager pitching him. Kineshanko provides diligence frameworks around information asymmetry, pre-sale access, and exit liquidity.30:54–33:15 · Nathan pushing back 0/10 Walter.ai’s Crowdsourced Research Model A brief explanation of Walter.ai's crowdsourced research model followed by promotional host ad reads.33:16–35:33 · Nathan pushing back 1/10 The Famous Five Rapid-Fire Questions Latka conducts the standard rapid-fire Famous Five questionnaire, engaging in casual personal banter.35:33–36:14 · Nathan pushing back 0/10 Episode Recap and Next Day Preview A solo outro monologue summarizing key takeaways from the conversation and previewing the next episode.

speaking balance: gold is Nathan, purple is the guest (3 minute bins)

0:00 · Nathan 78.4% · guest 21.6%0:00 · Nathan 78.4% · guest 21.6%3:00 · Nathan 24.4% · guest 75.6%3:00 · Nathan 24.4% · guest 75.6%6:00 · Nathan 26.7% · guest 73.3%6:00 · Nathan 26.7% · guest 73.3%9:00 · Nathan 40.4% · guest 59.6%9:00 · Nathan 40.4% · guest 59.6%12:00 · Nathan 38.7% · guest 61.3%12:00 · Nathan 38.7% · guest 61.3%15:00 · Nathan 30.3% · guest 69.7%15:00 · Nathan 30.3% · guest 69.7%18:00 · Nathan 39.9% · guest 60.1%18:00 · Nathan 39.9% · guest 60.1%21:00 · Nathan 35% · guest 65%21:00 · Nathan 35% · guest 65%24:00 · Nathan 27.7% · guest 72.3%24:00 · Nathan 27.7% · guest 72.3%27:00 · Nathan 23.9% · guest 76.1%27:00 · Nathan 23.9% · guest 76.1%30:00 · Nathan 45% · guest 55%30:00 · Nathan 45% · guest 55%33:00 · Nathan 54.4% · guest 45.6%33:00 · Nathan 54.4% · guest 45.6%36:00 · Nathan 85.2% · guest 14.8%36:00 · Nathan 85.2% · guest 14.8%
Sharpest disagreement ▶ 2:02 Joking pushback on getting rich

Kineshanko playfully counters Latka's premise about making everyone rich by noting he might get everyone's money into crypto right before a market crash.

 Hardest push from Nathan ▶ 6:05 Challenging blockchain anonymity claims

Latka presses Kineshanko on how forensic analysis can tie digital transfers back to physical identity despite the purported privacy benefits of crypto.

 Biggest teaching moment ▶ 21:47 Protocol layer versus token taxonomy

Kineshanko directly corrects Latka's confused framing that tokens contain packets full of blockchains, explaining that the blockchain is the underlying protocol layer.

 Nathan holds their own ▶ 26:53 Applying traditional asset management diligence to crypto

Latka draws on institutional fund structures like the Vanguard S&P 500 to structure sophisticated questions for evaluating emerging crypto fund managers.
the scores for every segment, with the reasoning behind each
ChapterTopicNathan as informed peerGuest teachingGuest disagreementNathan pushing backWhy
Walter.ai and the Need for Crypto Market Intelligence 2713 Latka admits he has little background and attempts a basic analogy comparing blockchain to random keystrokes. Kineshanko politely steps back to explain the foundational architecture of decentralized secure value transfer and how public ledgers can actually be traced.
Digital Gold, Token Varieties, and the Role of Ethereum 2612 Latka tests comparisons like coins in a wallet and geopolitical drivers. Kineshanko reframes tokens as national currencies and introduces Ethereum as the WordPress of blockchains.
Practical Steps for Beginners: Coinbase and Poloniex 1501 Latka acts as a complete novice, following instructions live to set up accounts on Coinbase and Poloniex. Kineshanko acts as an instructive guide.
Cryptoeconomics, Incentive Systems, and Liquid Venture Capital 3612 Latka brings up the pick-and-shovel business model and compares micro-economies to Neopets. Kineshanko expands on crypto incentives, mining town dynamics, and liquid venture capital.
Decoding Tokens, Proof of Work, and Network Participation 3713 Latka attempts to define parent-child relationships between tokens and blockchains, prompting Kineshanko to clarify that blockchains act as protocol layers rather than containers.
Market Euphoria, ICO Due Diligence, and Fund Strategies 4612 Latka presents an intelligent scenario about vetting an index fund manager pitching him. Kineshanko provides diligence frameworks around information asymmetry, pre-sale access, and exit liquidity.
Walter.ai’s Crowdsourced Research Model 1200 A brief explanation of Walter.ai's crowdsourced research model followed by promotional host ad reads.
The Famous Five Rapid-Fire Questions 1201 Latka conducts the standard rapid-fire Famous Five questionnaire, engaging in casual personal banter.
Episode Recap and Next Day Preview 0000 A solo outro monologue summarizing key takeaways from the conversation and previewing the next episode.

Statements from this episode (11)

Assertion Supported
Kineshanko: Token market grew to $90B in roughly five years
“We've gone from zero to ninety billion market cap in like, you know, around five years.”
Tom Kineshanko Aug 18, 2017 ▶ 2:36
Insight
Kineshanko says crypto tokens act as liquid venture capital, not traditional equity
“This is liquid venture capital. So these tokens represent not even equity in most cases, but they represent kind of an exposure to a startup project.”
Tom Kineshanko Aug 18, 2017 ▶ 3:11
Assertion Supported
Kineshanko: Blockchain activity can be traced to identify specific users
“Well, you can actually track activity on the blockchain quite nicely because it's all open source. So it's a bit tricky to figure out who's doing what, because people can have, you know, you or I could create wallets, numerous wallets and do stuff with those.…”
Tom Kineshanko Aug 18, 2017 ▶ 6:06
Prediction Held up
Kineshanko: Dedicated blockchains will emerge for identity and medical data
“There's going to be a lot of different blockchains. Like there'll be a blockchain for transferring identity. There will be a blockchain for secure medical information.”
Tom Kineshanko Aug 18, 2017 ▶ 9:48
Prediction Not checkable as stated
Kineshanko predicts Bitcoin will hit trillion-dollar valuation if trusted like gold
“If it even becomes a fraction as trusted as gold, it's gonna be worth many billions of dollars, which it already is, and then if it goes beyond, it becomes at least as trusted as gold, people are gonna run to it, and it's gonna be worth trillions of dollars.”
Tom Kineshanko Aug 18, 2017 ▶ 10:45
Prediction Open · timeframe Aug 2022
Kineshanko predicts multiple blockchains will act as trillion-dollar digital gold
“I think there's going to be multiple blockchains that act like gold, digital gold, and multiple blockchains worth trillions of dollars.”
Tom Kineshanko Aug 18, 2017 ▶ 11:07
Prediction Not checkable as stated
Kineshanko: Blockchain is how the world builds for the next decade
“This way of building stuff is going to be the way the world builds stuff for the next decade.”
Tom Kineshanko Aug 18, 2017 ▶ 12:07
Assertion Supported
Kineshanko notes crypto tokens often become liquid before a product exists
“Within the crypto world, people's tokens are going liquid often before they even have a product.”
Tom Kineshanko Aug 18, 2017 ▶ 17:23
Assertion Contradicted
Kineshanko claims Chinese crypto miners negotiated free power on massive ships
“There's mining shops that have like purchased massive ships in China and they've negotiated to get free power from the Chinese government to mine this stuff.”
Tom Kineshanko Aug 18, 2017 ▶ 25:07
Assertion Partly supported
Kineshanko notes only 66 liquid venture token offerings occurred in 2016
“There was only 66 offerings of these liquid venture tokens last year.”
Tom Kineshanko Aug 18, 2017 ▶ 25:48
Opinion
Kineshanko: Metastable and Polychain are the two best crypto hedge funds
“Do you have a personal relationship with Metastable and Polychain, which are the two best hedge funds in this space, in my opinion?”
Tom Kineshanko Aug 18, 2017 ▶ 28:02
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