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Sep 12, 2017 · 21m · top-founders

780: SaaS: How Did He 2x ARR In Last 12 Months from $6m to $12m?

Brandon Bruce · 12m spoken Nathan Latka · 7m spoken
0:00 / 0:00

gold bands on the timeline = statements, start to end. Hover to read, click to jump. CC turns on captions

In this episode of The Top Podcast, host Nathan Latka interviews Cirrus Insight co-founder and COO Brandon Bruce to examine how the bootstrapped SaaS company doubled its annual recurring revenue from $6 million to $12 million by expanding its product suite and adopting a quality-driven sales methodology.

How this conversation actually went

Every chapter scored 0–10 on four independent dynamics. Hover any point for the reasoning behind the score. Nathan holds 36.7% of the talking time here. How this is scored →

Nathan as informed peer 5.5 Guest teaching 3.5 Guest disagreement 1.2 Nathan pushing back 2.3
05100:0010:0020:001:35–5:34 · Nathan as informed peer 5/10 Preview of Upcoming Cryptocurrency Episode Nathan introduces Brandon and recalls historical figures from their prior interview, but Brandon gently corrects him regarding their past employee count.5:34–8:06 · Nathan as informed peer 6/10 Channel Evolution, Tiered Pricing, and ARPU Expansion Nathan drills into the tiering structure and asks whether the new Flight Plans feature is bundled or intended as a distinct ARPU expansion lever.8:06–12:47 · Nathan as informed peer 7/10 Crossing $1M MRR and Sales Automation Trends Nathan performs rapid mental math on the spot to calculate the ARPU growth from $6 to $8 based on $1M MRR across 125,000 seats, while Brandon explains market dynamics.12:48–14:57 · Nathan as informed peer 7/10 Churn Dynamics and Enterprise Customer Retention Nathan probes the difference between gross customer churn and net revenue churn across SMB and enterprise cohorts.14:57–17:37 · Nathan as informed peer 6/10 Customer Acquisition and 'The Slow Sale' Philosophy Brandon shares his contrarian philosophy from his book 'The Slow Sale' against conventional high-volume sales outreach, while Nathan pushes for exact marketing spend figures.17:39–21:05 · Nathan as informed peer 2/10 HostGator Midroll Sponsorship HostGator sponsor segment followed by standard, friendly Famous Five rapid-fire questions to wrap up the interview.1:35–5:34 · Guest teaching 4/10 Preview of Upcoming Cryptocurrency Episode Nathan introduces Brandon and recalls historical figures from their prior interview, but Brandon gently corrects him regarding their past employee count.5:34–8:06 · Guest teaching 3/10 Channel Evolution, Tiered Pricing, and ARPU Expansion Nathan drills into the tiering structure and asks whether the new Flight Plans feature is bundled or intended as a distinct ARPU expansion lever.8:06–12:47 · Guest teaching 4/10 Crossing $1M MRR and Sales Automation Trends Nathan performs rapid mental math on the spot to calculate the ARPU growth from $6 to $8 based on $1M MRR across 125,000 seats, while Brandon explains market dynamics.12:48–14:57 · Guest teaching 4/10 Churn Dynamics and Enterprise Customer Retention Nathan probes the difference between gross customer churn and net revenue churn across SMB and enterprise cohorts.14:57–17:37 · Guest teaching 5/10 Customer Acquisition and 'The Slow Sale' Philosophy Brandon shares his contrarian philosophy from his book 'The Slow Sale' against conventional high-volume sales outreach, while Nathan pushes for exact marketing spend figures.17:39–21:05 · Guest teaching 1/10 HostGator Midroll Sponsorship HostGator sponsor segment followed by standard, friendly Famous Five rapid-fire questions to wrap up the interview.1:35–5:34 · Guest disagreement 2/10 Preview of Upcoming Cryptocurrency Episode Nathan introduces Brandon and recalls historical figures from their prior interview, but Brandon gently corrects him regarding their past employee count.5:34–8:06 · Guest disagreement 1/10 Channel Evolution, Tiered Pricing, and ARPU Expansion Nathan drills into the tiering structure and asks whether the new Flight Plans feature is bundled or intended as a distinct ARPU expansion lever.8:06–12:47 · Guest disagreement 1/10 Crossing $1M MRR and Sales Automation Trends Nathan performs rapid mental math on the spot to calculate the ARPU growth from $6 to $8 based on $1M MRR across 125,000 seats, while Brandon explains market dynamics.12:48–14:57 · Guest disagreement 1/10 Churn Dynamics and Enterprise Customer Retention Nathan probes the difference between gross customer churn and net revenue churn across SMB and enterprise cohorts.14:57–17:37 · Guest disagreement 2/10 Customer Acquisition and 'The Slow Sale' Philosophy Brandon shares his contrarian philosophy from his book 'The Slow Sale' against conventional high-volume sales outreach, while Nathan pushes for exact marketing spend figures.17:39–21:05 · Guest disagreement 0/10 HostGator Midroll Sponsorship HostGator sponsor segment followed by standard, friendly Famous Five rapid-fire questions to wrap up the interview.1:35–5:34 · Nathan pushing back 2/10 Preview of Upcoming Cryptocurrency Episode Nathan introduces Brandon and recalls historical figures from their prior interview, but Brandon gently corrects him regarding their past employee count.5:34–8:06 · Nathan pushing back 3/10 Channel Evolution, Tiered Pricing, and ARPU Expansion Nathan drills into the tiering structure and asks whether the new Flight Plans feature is bundled or intended as a distinct ARPU expansion lever.8:06–12:47 · Nathan pushing back 3/10 Crossing $1M MRR and Sales Automation Trends Nathan performs rapid mental math on the spot to calculate the ARPU growth from $6 to $8 based on $1M MRR across 125,000 seats, while Brandon explains market dynamics.12:48–14:57 · Nathan pushing back 3/10 Churn Dynamics and Enterprise Customer Retention Nathan probes the difference between gross customer churn and net revenue churn across SMB and enterprise cohorts.14:57–17:37 · Nathan pushing back 3/10 Customer Acquisition and 'The Slow Sale' Philosophy Brandon shares his contrarian philosophy from his book 'The Slow Sale' against conventional high-volume sales outreach, while Nathan pushes for exact marketing spend figures.17:39–21:05 · Nathan pushing back 0/10 HostGator Midroll Sponsorship HostGator sponsor segment followed by standard, friendly Famous Five rapid-fire questions to wrap up the interview.

speaking balance: gold is Nathan, purple is the guest (3 minute bins)

0:00 · Nathan 86.8% · guest 13.2%0:00 · Nathan 86.8% · guest 13.2%3:00 · Nathan 27.6% · guest 72.4%3:00 · Nathan 27.6% · guest 72.4%6:00 · Nathan 29% · guest 71%6:00 · Nathan 29% · guest 71%9:00 · Nathan 22.9% · guest 77.1%9:00 · Nathan 22.9% · guest 77.1%12:00 · Nathan 30.1% · guest 69.9%12:00 · Nathan 30.1% · guest 69.9%15:00 · Nathan 21.6% · guest 78.4%15:00 · Nathan 21.6% · guest 78.4%18:00 · Nathan 23.6% · guest 76.4%18:00 · Nathan 23.6% · guest 76.4%21:00 · Nathan 88.3% · guest 11.7%21:00 · Nathan 88.3% · guest 11.7%
Sharpest disagreement ▶ 15:15 Rejecting the high-velocity sales acceleration paradigm

Brandon pushes back against industry orthodoxy, arguing that blind sales acceleration often just drives companies faster in the wrong direction.

 Hardest push from Nathan ▶ 7:10 Challenging product tiering and monetization

Nathan presses Brandon on whether Flight Plans is simply bundled into existing plans or designed as a whole new upsell tier for ARPU expansion.

 Biggest teaching moment ▶ 3:45 Reframing CRM reality and inbox workflow

Brandon educates the audience and host on why Salesforce is fundamentally a database rather than where sales relationships are actually built.

 Nathan holds their own ▶ 9:45 On-the-fly ARPU and cohort unit economics breakdown

Nathan instantly divides the $1M MRR by 125k seats on air to verify the exact increase in average revenue per user.
the scores for every segment, with the reasoning behind each
ChapterTopicNathan as informed peerGuest teachingGuest disagreementNathan pushing backWhy
Preview of Upcoming Cryptocurrency Episode 5422 Nathan introduces Brandon and recalls historical figures from their prior interview, but Brandon gently corrects him regarding their past employee count.
Channel Evolution, Tiered Pricing, and ARPU Expansion 6313 Nathan drills into the tiering structure and asks whether the new Flight Plans feature is bundled or intended as a distinct ARPU expansion lever.
Crossing $1M MRR and Sales Automation Trends 7413 Nathan performs rapid mental math on the spot to calculate the ARPU growth from $6 to $8 based on $1M MRR across 125,000 seats, while Brandon explains market dynamics.
Churn Dynamics and Enterprise Customer Retention 7413 Nathan probes the difference between gross customer churn and net revenue churn across SMB and enterprise cohorts.
Customer Acquisition and 'The Slow Sale' Philosophy 6523 Brandon shares his contrarian philosophy from his book 'The Slow Sale' against conventional high-volume sales outreach, while Nathan pushes for exact marketing spend figures.
HostGator Midroll Sponsorship 2100 HostGator sponsor segment followed by standard, friendly Famous Five rapid-fire questions to wrap up the interview.

Statements from this episode (11)

Disclosure
Cirrus Insight scales to 70 employees on initial $550K seed funding
“So now we're up to about 70. We haven't raised any additional funding. We haven't sought to, so we're still powering away with the good old-fashioned customer-funded organic growth.”
Brandon Bruce Sep 12, 2017 ▶ 2:55
Opinion
Brandon Bruce argues Salesforce is not a CRM or sales tool
“I think our key kind of learning over the last few years is Salesforce is not a sales tool. Salesforce is not actually a CRM. It's kind of a misnomer. It's called the customer relationship management platform, but you know, as well as anybody, no customer rela…”
Brandon Bruce Sep 12, 2017 ▶ 4:08
Assertion Not checkable as stated
Cirrus Insight reaches approximately 125,000 active seats
“So it's up about a 100,000 now. It's probably about a hundred and a quarter.”
Brandon Bruce Sep 12, 2017 ▶ 6:48
Disclosure
Cirrus Insight prices its Starter tier at $19 and Closer at $29
“Now our two plans starter and closer are 19 and 29 respectively. And our flight plans seats are selling for substantially more.”
Brandon Bruce Sep 12, 2017 ▶ 7:02
Assertion Not checkable as stated
Cirrus Insight surpasses $1 million in monthly recurring revenue
“So we're just hitting and starting to pass a million MRR now.”
Brandon Bruce Sep 12, 2017 ▶ 8:18
Insight
Many teams overpay for marketing automation just to send newsletters
“And what we came to find out is there's a lot of teams really overpaying and under utilizing marketing automation. So they're paying the big ticket price for a big platform, but they're using it like a monthly newsletter system.”
Brandon Bruce Sep 12, 2017 ▶ 8:58
Disclosure
Cirrus Insight sees 15% to 20% annual gross customer churn
“Gross customer churn is going to be in the 15 to 20% range right now.”
Brandon Bruce Sep 12, 2017 ▶ 13:02
Disclosure
Cirrus Insight maintains negative net revenue churn in its enterprise cohort
“As far as net revenue turn, it'd be negative. As far as net C turn, it would definitely be under that. 10%, probably under five percent for those large companies”
Brandon Bruce Sep 12, 2017 ▶ 14:25
Insight
Rushing deals increases customer churn due to a lack of commitment
“If I rush you into a sale and you agree, the chance of you turning is going to be that much higher because you really haven't made that full psychological commitment yet.”
Brandon Bruce Sep 12, 2017 ▶ 16:17
Disclosure
Cirrus Insight spends $25K to $50K monthly on paid marketing
“Our budget for paid marketing last month was probably somewhere between 25, 50,000 dollars.”
Brandon Bruce Sep 12, 2017 ▶ 16:29
Opinion
Attendance and ROI at major sales conferences are reaching saturation
“We've done historically a lot of sponsorships at conferences. We found and at least toward the end of last year, that attendance was starting to drop at some of the conferences, so we think that might be a trend. We're not sure yet. And we know there's plenty …”
Brandon Bruce Sep 12, 2017 ▶ 16:43
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