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Apr 29, 2018 · 17m · top-founders

1009 The Argument for Shutting Down and Launching With 100% Control

Justin Kline · 8m spoken Nathan Latka · 7m spoken
0:00 / 0:00

gold bands on the timeline = statements, start to end. Hover to read, click to jump. CC turns on captions

In this episode of The Top Entrepreneurs, host Nathan Latka interviews Markerly CEO Justin Kline to analyze the mechanics of running a hybrid SaaS and influencer marketing agency. They explore the company's financial metrics, operational tradeoffs, and debate the merits of venture backing versus pure founder ownership.

How this conversation actually went

Every chapter scored 0–10 on four independent dynamics. Hover any point for the reasoning behind the score. Nathan holds 45.2% of the talking time here. How this is scored →

Nathan as informed peer 5.4 Guest teaching 2.2 Guest disagreement 3.8 Nathan pushing back 5.8
05100:0010:000:49–3:07 · Nathan as informed peer 5/10 Introducing Justin Kline and Markerly's Business Model Nathan breaks down Markerly's dual business model, probing the breakdown between SaaS and agency revenue and clarifying minimum versus average monthly contract values.3:07–5:43 · Nathan as informed peer 5/10 Markerly's Origin Story and Customer Scale When Justin attempts to dodge disclosing his customer count, Nathan aggressively challenges him on how a CEO cannot know his own customer numbers, forcing Justin to provide a range.5:44–10:42 · Nathan as informed peer 7/10 Funding History and the Agency vs SaaS Tension Nathan challenges the divided focus between software development and bespoke agency work, then rejects Justin's attempt to deflect and skip past monthly revenue math.10:44–15:12 · Nathan as informed peer 6/10 Sponsor Break: ProsperWorks CRM Endorsement Following the ProsperWorks sponsor read, Nathan directly urges Justin to consider shutting down the company to escape VC cap-table constraints, bluntly telling him 'I don't believe you' when Justin claims to be content.15:12–17:16 · Nathan as informed peer 4/10 The Famous Five Rapid-Fire Questions The interview transitions into the routine Famous Five rapid-fire questions followed by Nathan's concluding business summary.0:49–3:07 · Guest teaching 2/10 Introducing Justin Kline and Markerly's Business Model Nathan breaks down Markerly's dual business model, probing the breakdown between SaaS and agency revenue and clarifying minimum versus average monthly contract values.3:07–5:43 · Guest teaching 2/10 Markerly's Origin Story and Customer Scale When Justin attempts to dodge disclosing his customer count, Nathan aggressively challenges him on how a CEO cannot know his own customer numbers, forcing Justin to provide a range.5:44–10:42 · Guest teaching 4/10 Funding History and the Agency vs SaaS Tension Nathan challenges the divided focus between software development and bespoke agency work, then rejects Justin's attempt to deflect and skip past monthly revenue math.10:44–15:12 · Guest teaching 2/10 Sponsor Break: ProsperWorks CRM Endorsement Following the ProsperWorks sponsor read, Nathan directly urges Justin to consider shutting down the company to escape VC cap-table constraints, bluntly telling him 'I don't believe you' when Justin claims to be content.15:12–17:16 · Guest teaching 1/10 The Famous Five Rapid-Fire Questions The interview transitions into the routine Famous Five rapid-fire questions followed by Nathan's concluding business summary.0:49–3:07 · Guest disagreement 1/10 Introducing Justin Kline and Markerly's Business Model Nathan breaks down Markerly's dual business model, probing the breakdown between SaaS and agency revenue and clarifying minimum versus average monthly contract values.3:07–5:43 · Guest disagreement 5/10 Markerly's Origin Story and Customer Scale When Justin attempts to dodge disclosing his customer count, Nathan aggressively challenges him on how a CEO cannot know his own customer numbers, forcing Justin to provide a range.5:44–10:42 · Guest disagreement 6/10 Funding History and the Agency vs SaaS Tension Nathan challenges the divided focus between software development and bespoke agency work, then rejects Justin's attempt to deflect and skip past monthly revenue math.10:44–15:12 · Guest disagreement 6/10 Sponsor Break: ProsperWorks CRM Endorsement Following the ProsperWorks sponsor read, Nathan directly urges Justin to consider shutting down the company to escape VC cap-table constraints, bluntly telling him 'I don't believe you' when Justin claims to be content.15:12–17:16 · Guest disagreement 1/10 The Famous Five Rapid-Fire Questions The interview transitions into the routine Famous Five rapid-fire questions followed by Nathan's concluding business summary.0:49–3:07 · Nathan pushing back 3/10 Introducing Justin Kline and Markerly's Business Model Nathan breaks down Markerly's dual business model, probing the breakdown between SaaS and agency revenue and clarifying minimum versus average monthly contract values.3:07–5:43 · Nathan pushing back 7/10 Markerly's Origin Story and Customer Scale When Justin attempts to dodge disclosing his customer count, Nathan aggressively challenges him on how a CEO cannot know his own customer numbers, forcing Justin to provide a range.5:44–10:42 · Nathan pushing back 8/10 Funding History and the Agency vs SaaS Tension Nathan challenges the divided focus between software development and bespoke agency work, then rejects Justin's attempt to deflect and skip past monthly revenue math.10:44–15:12 · Nathan pushing back 9/10 Sponsor Break: ProsperWorks CRM Endorsement Following the ProsperWorks sponsor read, Nathan directly urges Justin to consider shutting down the company to escape VC cap-table constraints, bluntly telling him 'I don't believe you' when Justin claims to be content.15:12–17:16 · Nathan pushing back 2/10 The Famous Five Rapid-Fire Questions The interview transitions into the routine Famous Five rapid-fire questions followed by Nathan's concluding business summary.

speaking balance: gold is Nathan, purple is the guest (3 minute bins)

0:00 · Nathan 46.1% · guest 53.9%0:00 · Nathan 46.1% · guest 53.9%3:00 · Nathan 30.3% · guest 69.7%3:00 · Nathan 30.3% · guest 69.7%6:00 · Nathan 45.6% · guest 54.4%6:00 · Nathan 45.6% · guest 54.4%9:00 · Nathan 61.5% · guest 38.5%9:00 · Nathan 61.5% · guest 38.5%12:00 · Nathan 50.1% · guest 49.9%12:00 · Nathan 50.1% · guest 49.9%15:00 · Nathan 35.7% · guest 64.3%15:00 · Nathan 35.7% · guest 64.3%
Sharpest disagreement ▶ 8:43 Justin tries to dismiss revenue calculation and move on

Justin resists Nathan's revenue estimation by claiming he is not at liberty to disclose figures and explicitly attempts to cut off the questioning by asking to move on.

 Hardest push from Nathan ▶ 13:45 Nathan rejects Justin's optimistic spin and suggests shutting down

Nathan aggressively rejects Justin's defense of his venture-backed business model, telling Justin directly that he doesn't believe him and that he is trapped in a bad situation.

 Biggest teaching moment ▶ 7:50 Justin explains the lifecycle transition between agency and SaaS

Justin articulates why offering both agency services and software allows the company to retain clients as their internal marketing operations mature.

 Nathan holds their own ▶ 8:43 Nathan proves implied MRR using Justin's own data points

Nathan refuses to let Justin characterize basic math as speculation, firmly demonstrating how multiplying Justin's stated customer count by average contract value gives their monthly baseline.
the scores for every segment, with the reasoning behind each
ChapterTopicNathan as informed peerGuest teachingGuest disagreementNathan pushing backWhy
Introducing Justin Kline and Markerly's Business Model 5213 Nathan breaks down Markerly's dual business model, probing the breakdown between SaaS and agency revenue and clarifying minimum versus average monthly contract values.
Markerly's Origin Story and Customer Scale 5257 When Justin attempts to dodge disclosing his customer count, Nathan aggressively challenges him on how a CEO cannot know his own customer numbers, forcing Justin to provide a range.
Funding History and the Agency vs SaaS Tension 7468 Nathan challenges the divided focus between software development and bespoke agency work, then rejects Justin's attempt to deflect and skip past monthly revenue math.
Sponsor Break: ProsperWorks CRM Endorsement 6269 Following the ProsperWorks sponsor read, Nathan directly urges Justin to consider shutting down the company to escape VC cap-table constraints, bluntly telling him 'I don't believe you' when Justin claims to be content.
The Famous Five Rapid-Fire Questions 4112 The interview transitions into the routine Famous Five rapid-fire questions followed by Nathan's concluding business summary.

Statements from this episode (9)

Disclosure
Kline: Markerly's revenue is roughly 60% agency campaigns and 40% SaaS
“I would say it's probably 6040 more on the campaign side.”
Justin Kline Apr 29, 2018 ▶ 2:26
Disclosure
Kline: Markerly's SaaS platform requires annual contracts starting at $1,000 monthly
“I mean, as far as the SAS model goes, I mean, it can, it's, it, the minimum is a thousand dollars a month. These are annual contracts goes up from there.”
Justin Kline Apr 29, 2018 ▶ 2:46
Disclosure
Kline: Markerly SaaS customers pay roughly $2,000 per month on average
“You know, it's, I would say on average, maybe a couple thousand dollars.”
Justin Kline Apr 29, 2018 ▶ 3:01
Assertion Not checkable as stated
Kline: Markerly Has Between 30 and 100 Customers
“It's under a hundred over 30.”
Justin Kline Apr 29, 2018 ▶ 4:39
Disclosure
Kline: Markerly raised a little over $700,000 in outside capital
“That's a little over 700.”
Justin Kline Apr 29, 2018 ▶ 6:00
Disclosure
Kline: Markerly's Minimum Campaign Size Is $25,000
“Our minimum campaign size is 25,000 dollars.”
Justin Kline Apr 29, 2018 ▶ 9:31
Insight
Kline: CPG Brands Are the Sweet Spot for Influencer Marketing
“Like I think CPG brands is the real sweet spot. Like it is an amazing way to generate conversation. You can send out product via, you know you know, mail service to a bunch of different influencers. And, It's a great way to get campaigns up really fast, and it…”
Justin Kline Apr 29, 2018 ▶ 10:20
Prediction Not checkable as stated
Kline: Instagram or Facebook could start offering influencer marketing
“Like I think that Instagram or Facebook could potentially start offering influencer marketing.”
Justin Kline Apr 29, 2018 ▶ 12:42
Assertion Supported
Justin Kline: Markerly's Former CEO Was His Wife
“I have a wife who was previously our CEO.”
Justin Kline Apr 29, 2018 ▶ 16:13
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