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Oct 24, 2018 · 18m · top-founders

1187 The Chinese Gave Him $50M For Orally Delivered Insulin Capsul Idea, Will It Take Off?

Nadav Kidron · 10m spoken Nathan Latka · 5m spoken
0:00 / 0:00

gold bands on the timeline = statements, start to end. Hover to read, click to jump. CC turns on captions

In an interview with Nathan Latka on The Top Entrepreneurs Podcast, Oramed Pharmaceuticals CEO Nadav Kidron discusses developing an oral insulin capsule, raising over one hundred million dollars, and securing a major licensing partnership in China.

How this conversation actually went

Every chapter scored 0–10 on four independent dynamics. Hover any point for the reasoning behind the score. Nathan holds 33.7% of the talking time here. How this is scored →

Nathan as informed peer 3.5 Guest teaching 4.5 Guest disagreement 1.5 Nathan pushing back 3.3
05100:0010:003:53–9:11 · Nathan as informed peer 5/10 Capital Strategy, Clinical Trials, and China Partnership Nathan presses Kidron on Oramed's stagnant share price and questions why they opted for the scrutiny of public markets over private venture capital. Kidron schools Nathan on biotech economics, explaining the 15-year, billion-dollar FDA timeline and why biotech investors demand public market liquidity.9:11–12:57 · Nathan as informed peer 3/10 Founding Backstory, Pipeline Expansion, and Drug Delivery Platform Nathan inquires about the binary risk profile and why FDA approval isn't guaranteed. Kidron explains the make-or-break nature of pharmaceutical development and outlines their broader platform pipeline targeting leptin and NASH.12:57–16:36 · Nathan as informed peer 5/10 Valuation Discrepancies and the Israeli Innovation Engine Nathan drills into the valuation disconnect between Oramed's public market cap and their Chinese partnership deal. Kidron explains that low float and lack of liquidity prevent public markets from reflecting fair value, detailing why the deal was structured as a private placement.16:37–18:09 · Nathan as informed peer 1/10 The Famous Five Rapid-Fire Questions Standard Famous Five rapid-fire segment conducted with light humor and quick answers.3:53–9:11 · Guest teaching 6/10 Capital Strategy, Clinical Trials, and China Partnership Nathan presses Kidron on Oramed's stagnant share price and questions why they opted for the scrutiny of public markets over private venture capital. Kidron schools Nathan on biotech economics, explaining the 15-year, billion-dollar FDA timeline and why biotech investors demand public market liquidity.9:11–12:57 · Guest teaching 5/10 Founding Backstory, Pipeline Expansion, and Drug Delivery Platform Nathan inquires about the binary risk profile and why FDA approval isn't guaranteed. Kidron explains the make-or-break nature of pharmaceutical development and outlines their broader platform pipeline targeting leptin and NASH.12:57–16:36 · Guest teaching 6/10 Valuation Discrepancies and the Israeli Innovation Engine Nathan drills into the valuation disconnect between Oramed's public market cap and their Chinese partnership deal. Kidron explains that low float and lack of liquidity prevent public markets from reflecting fair value, detailing why the deal was structured as a private placement.16:37–18:09 · Guest teaching 1/10 The Famous Five Rapid-Fire Questions Standard Famous Five rapid-fire segment conducted with light humor and quick answers.3:53–9:11 · Guest disagreement 2/10 Capital Strategy, Clinical Trials, and China Partnership Nathan presses Kidron on Oramed's stagnant share price and questions why they opted for the scrutiny of public markets over private venture capital. Kidron schools Nathan on biotech economics, explaining the 15-year, billion-dollar FDA timeline and why biotech investors demand public market liquidity.9:11–12:57 · Guest disagreement 2/10 Founding Backstory, Pipeline Expansion, and Drug Delivery Platform Nathan inquires about the binary risk profile and why FDA approval isn't guaranteed. Kidron explains the make-or-break nature of pharmaceutical development and outlines their broader platform pipeline targeting leptin and NASH.12:57–16:36 · Guest disagreement 2/10 Valuation Discrepancies and the Israeli Innovation Engine Nathan drills into the valuation disconnect between Oramed's public market cap and their Chinese partnership deal. Kidron explains that low float and lack of liquidity prevent public markets from reflecting fair value, detailing why the deal was structured as a private placement.16:37–18:09 · Guest disagreement 0/10 The Famous Five Rapid-Fire Questions Standard Famous Five rapid-fire segment conducted with light humor and quick answers.3:53–9:11 · Nathan pushing back 5/10 Capital Strategy, Clinical Trials, and China Partnership Nathan presses Kidron on Oramed's stagnant share price and questions why they opted for the scrutiny of public markets over private venture capital. Kidron schools Nathan on biotech economics, explaining the 15-year, billion-dollar FDA timeline and why biotech investors demand public market liquidity.9:11–12:57 · Nathan pushing back 3/10 Founding Backstory, Pipeline Expansion, and Drug Delivery Platform Nathan inquires about the binary risk profile and why FDA approval isn't guaranteed. Kidron explains the make-or-break nature of pharmaceutical development and outlines their broader platform pipeline targeting leptin and NASH.12:57–16:36 · Nathan pushing back 4/10 Valuation Discrepancies and the Israeli Innovation Engine Nathan drills into the valuation disconnect between Oramed's public market cap and their Chinese partnership deal. Kidron explains that low float and lack of liquidity prevent public markets from reflecting fair value, detailing why the deal was structured as a private placement.16:37–18:09 · Nathan pushing back 1/10 The Famous Five Rapid-Fire Questions Standard Famous Five rapid-fire segment conducted with light humor and quick answers.

speaking balance: gold is Nathan, purple is the guest (3 minute bins)

0:00 · Nathan 67% · guest 33%0:00 · Nathan 67% · guest 33%3:00 · Nathan 31.8% · guest 68.2%3:00 · Nathan 31.8% · guest 68.2%6:00 · Nathan 19.6% · guest 80.4%6:00 · Nathan 19.6% · guest 80.4%9:00 · Nathan 21.4% · guest 78.6%9:00 · Nathan 21.4% · guest 78.6%12:00 · Nathan 19.3% · guest 80.7%12:00 · Nathan 19.3% · guest 80.7%15:00 · Nathan 26.8% · guest 73.2%15:00 · Nathan 26.8% · guest 73.2%18:00 · Nathan 87.6% · guest 12.4%18:00 · Nathan 87.6% · guest 12.4%
Sharpest disagreement ▶ 10:22 Kidron dismisses certainty assumption

Kidron immediately pushes back on Nathan's suggestion that FDA approval is guaranteed, stating flatly that no such certainty exists in clinical trials.

 Hardest push from Nathan ▶ 6:27 Pushing on five-year flat stock performance

Nathan directly challenges Kidron on Oramed's stock price dropping from 30 dollars down to five dollars, questioning how he manages investors amidst years of flat-to-declining performance.

 Biggest teaching moment ▶ 8:24 Kidron breaks down biotech development costs and timelines

Kidron details the harsh reality of FDA trials taking 15 to 16 years and nearly one billion dollars per successful drug, educating Nathan on why biotech investors require public market liquidity.

 Nathan holds their own ▶ 15:11 Nathan clarifies private placement mechanics vs exchange trading

Nathan displays sharp financial acumen by distinguishing between open-market stock purchases and private placements to dissect Oramed's valuation disparity.
the scores for every segment, with the reasoning behind each
ChapterTopicNathan as informed peerGuest teachingGuest disagreementNathan pushing backWhy
Capital Strategy, Clinical Trials, and China Partnership 5625 Nathan presses Kidron on Oramed's stagnant share price and questions why they opted for the scrutiny of public markets over private venture capital. Kidron schools Nathan on biotech economics, explaining the 15-year, billion-dollar FDA timeline and why biotech investors demand public market liquidity.
Founding Backstory, Pipeline Expansion, and Drug Delivery Platform 3523 Nathan inquires about the binary risk profile and why FDA approval isn't guaranteed. Kidron explains the make-or-break nature of pharmaceutical development and outlines their broader platform pipeline targeting leptin and NASH.
Valuation Discrepancies and the Israeli Innovation Engine 5624 Nathan drills into the valuation disconnect between Oramed's public market cap and their Chinese partnership deal. Kidron explains that low float and lack of liquidity prevent public markets from reflecting fair value, detailing why the deal was structured as a private placement.
The Famous Five Rapid-Fire Questions 1101 Standard Famous Five rapid-fire segment conducted with light humor and quick answers.

Statements from this episode (13)

Assertion Supported
Kidron: Oramed's oral insulin delivery technology was developed by his mother
“So we have a technology that was actually developed by my mother, who is a scientist, that allows us to protect the insulin from degradation, and to take it intact into the liver.”
Nadav Kidron Oct 24, 2018 ▶ 3:19
Prediction Open · timeframe Oct 2023
Kidron: Oramed will probably enter the Chinese market before the US
“And with the Chinese FDA, we're probably going to get to the market even before the United States.”
Nadav Kidron Oct 24, 2018 ▶ 4:33
Disclosure
Kidron: Oramed collected $30M of $50M Chinese licensing deal
“So we got thirty million dollars out of the 50. We should be getting a few more millions this year, and some of it earlier next year as well.”
Nadav Kidron Oct 24, 2018 ▶ 4:45
Disclosure
Kidron: Oramed currently holds about $50M in cash
“The company today is a public company, a NASDAQ. The company, just the cash the company has today, it's about fifty million dollars, five zero, and there's more cash coming from the Chinese.”
Nadav Kidron Oct 24, 2018 ▶ 4:59
Disclosure
Kidron: Over $100M total has gone into Oramed Pharmaceuticals
“Up today, all together, I would say probably over a hundred million dollars of money between the revenues and money was raised, went into the company.”
Nadav Kidron Oct 24, 2018 ▶ 5:09
Disclosure
Kidron: Insiders and Chinese partners own about 50% of Oramed
“Between myself and the Chinese and some of the other shareholders, we own about 50% of the company.”
Nadav Kidron Oct 24, 2018 ▶ 6:58
Prediction Didn’t hold up
Kidron: Oramed will have 90-day oral insulin trial results by August 2019
“And in about 10 months from now, we're going to have the most important milestone in our history. We're going to have the result of a ninety-day trial when we administer oral insulin, and that's going to be a very, or the most clear-cut indication as to the va…”
Nadav Kidron Oct 24, 2018 ▶ 7:31
Opinion
Kidron: Oral delivery of proven drugs lowers risk versus novel chemicals
“Here, what we do is we're taking insulin that has been around for a long time, and we know that it works, and we have the ability to deliver it orally instead of an injection that we already proved in principle that that works. So that's why I think while ther…”
Nadav Kidron Oct 24, 2018 ▶ 10:43
Disclosure
Oramed is developing oral GLP-1 and leptin candidates alongside insulin
“We have a pipeline. We have other things beyond insulin. So we're working on insulin. We're working on another drug that's called GLP one analog. We're working on leptin.”
Nadav Kidron Oct 24, 2018 ▶ 12:03
Assertion Supported
Kidron: China deal pays Oramed $50M and 10% royalties, implying $1B valuation
“They're paying us fifty million dollars and 10% royalties, and they've been investing hundreds of millions of dollars into the facility of the building in China, and China is five percent of the global market of diabetes, so the value that they gave us, this f…”
Nadav Kidron Oct 24, 2018 ▶ 13:14
Disclosure
Kidron: Future Oramed deals will price on potential, not market cap
“Now we are, and this is public in our filing, we are in discussions with potential partners And I think everybody understands that if we're going to do a deal, if we're going to strike a deal, it's not going to be based on the current market cap, but it's goin…”
Nadav Kidron Oct 24, 2018 ▶ 14:01
Assertion Partly supported
Kidron: China partner invested $12M at double Oramed's market price
“So they did it at about double than what the current market prices. That was at the end of 2015, December, 2015.”
Nadav Kidron Oct 24, 2018 ▶ 14:22
Opinion
Kidron: US public markets hold a bias against China-derived deals
“So I think there's a little bit of a bias in the United States about anything which is China derived.”
Nadav Kidron Oct 24, 2018 ▶ 14:42
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