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Feb 16, 2019 · 17m · top-founders

1302 Property Data API Using Cash Cow to Fuel SaaS Growth

Josh Fraser · 8m spoken Nathan Latka · 6m spoken
0:00 / 0:00

gold bands on the timeline = statements, start to end. Hover to read, click to jump. CC turns on captions

In this episode of The Top Entrepreneurs, host Nathan Latka interviews Josh Fraser, founder of eStated, exploring how he uses $500,000 in annual profits from a legacy B2C cash cow to fund and scale a disruptive B2B real estate property data API.

How this conversation actually went

Every chapter scored 0–10 on four independent dynamics. Hover any point for the reasoning behind the score. Nathan holds 42% of the talking time here. How this is scored →

Nathan as informed peer 5.2 Guest teaching 3.6 Guest disagreement 1.6 Nathan pushing back 2.6
05100:0010:001:20–3:32 · Nathan as informed peer 3/10 Introducing Josh Fraser: From Google AdWords to Techstars Boulder Nathan introduces Josh and asks about eStated's core business model. Josh explains the legacy real estate data landscape and how traditional vendors like CoreLogic charge prohibitive six-figure fees.3:32–5:49 · Nathan as informed peer 5/10 Target Verticals and Leveling the SEO Playing Field Against Zillow Nathan asks why incumbents struggle against Zillow, prompting Josh to break down the technical differences between MLS-only indexing and public record property indexing for SEO scale.5:49–8:24 · Nathan as informed peer 6/10 Pricing Architecture and Siphoning Profits from B2C to SaaS Nathan digs into the pricing model and quickly synthesizes how Josh uses the B2C Carfax-for-homes cash cow to fund the nascent B2B SaaS platform.8:24–11:35 · Nathan as informed peer 6/10 Sunsetting the Legacy Product while Scaling Sticky API Subscriptions Nathan drills down on the metrics of the B2B SaaS business, reviewing customer counts, MRR, and API call volumes while exploring contract rollover rules.11:35–15:34 · Nathan as informed peer 6/10 Venture Backing, Distributed Engineering, and Organic Search Mastery Nathan challenges Josh for not having a fully weighted CAC despite his AdWords background, but Josh reveals they rely entirely on organic SEO rankings where they hold top spots.1:20–3:32 · Guest teaching 4/10 Introducing Josh Fraser: From Google AdWords to Techstars Boulder Nathan introduces Josh and asks about eStated's core business model. Josh explains the legacy real estate data landscape and how traditional vendors like CoreLogic charge prohibitive six-figure fees.3:32–5:49 · Guest teaching 5/10 Target Verticals and Leveling the SEO Playing Field Against Zillow Nathan asks why incumbents struggle against Zillow, prompting Josh to break down the technical differences between MLS-only indexing and public record property indexing for SEO scale.5:49–8:24 · Guest teaching 2/10 Pricing Architecture and Siphoning Profits from B2C to SaaS Nathan digs into the pricing model and quickly synthesizes how Josh uses the B2C Carfax-for-homes cash cow to fund the nascent B2B SaaS platform.8:24–11:35 · Guest teaching 3/10 Sunsetting the Legacy Product while Scaling Sticky API Subscriptions Nathan drills down on the metrics of the B2B SaaS business, reviewing customer counts, MRR, and API call volumes while exploring contract rollover rules.11:35–15:34 · Guest teaching 4/10 Venture Backing, Distributed Engineering, and Organic Search Mastery Nathan challenges Josh for not having a fully weighted CAC despite his AdWords background, but Josh reveals they rely entirely on organic SEO rankings where they hold top spots.1:20–3:32 · Guest disagreement 1/10 Introducing Josh Fraser: From Google AdWords to Techstars Boulder Nathan introduces Josh and asks about eStated's core business model. Josh explains the legacy real estate data landscape and how traditional vendors like CoreLogic charge prohibitive six-figure fees.3:32–5:49 · Guest disagreement 2/10 Target Verticals and Leveling the SEO Playing Field Against Zillow Nathan asks why incumbents struggle against Zillow, prompting Josh to break down the technical differences between MLS-only indexing and public record property indexing for SEO scale.5:49–8:24 · Guest disagreement 1/10 Pricing Architecture and Siphoning Profits from B2C to SaaS Nathan digs into the pricing model and quickly synthesizes how Josh uses the B2C Carfax-for-homes cash cow to fund the nascent B2B SaaS platform.8:24–11:35 · Guest disagreement 1/10 Sunsetting the Legacy Product while Scaling Sticky API Subscriptions Nathan drills down on the metrics of the B2B SaaS business, reviewing customer counts, MRR, and API call volumes while exploring contract rollover rules.11:35–15:34 · Guest disagreement 3/10 Venture Backing, Distributed Engineering, and Organic Search Mastery Nathan challenges Josh for not having a fully weighted CAC despite his AdWords background, but Josh reveals they rely entirely on organic SEO rankings where they hold top spots.1:20–3:32 · Nathan pushing back 2/10 Introducing Josh Fraser: From Google AdWords to Techstars Boulder Nathan introduces Josh and asks about eStated's core business model. Josh explains the legacy real estate data landscape and how traditional vendors like CoreLogic charge prohibitive six-figure fees.3:32–5:49 · Nathan pushing back 3/10 Target Verticals and Leveling the SEO Playing Field Against Zillow Nathan asks why incumbents struggle against Zillow, prompting Josh to break down the technical differences between MLS-only indexing and public record property indexing for SEO scale.5:49–8:24 · Nathan pushing back 2/10 Pricing Architecture and Siphoning Profits from B2C to SaaS Nathan digs into the pricing model and quickly synthesizes how Josh uses the B2C Carfax-for-homes cash cow to fund the nascent B2B SaaS platform.8:24–11:35 · Nathan pushing back 2/10 Sunsetting the Legacy Product while Scaling Sticky API Subscriptions Nathan drills down on the metrics of the B2B SaaS business, reviewing customer counts, MRR, and API call volumes while exploring contract rollover rules.11:35–15:34 · Nathan pushing back 4/10 Venture Backing, Distributed Engineering, and Organic Search Mastery Nathan challenges Josh for not having a fully weighted CAC despite his AdWords background, but Josh reveals they rely entirely on organic SEO rankings where they hold top spots.

speaking balance: gold is Nathan, purple is the guest (3 minute bins)

0:00 · Nathan 66.9% · guest 33.1%0:00 · Nathan 66.9% · guest 33.1%3:00 · Nathan 10.8% · guest 89.2%3:00 · Nathan 10.8% · guest 89.2%6:00 · Nathan 37.7% · guest 62.3%6:00 · Nathan 37.7% · guest 62.3%9:00 · Nathan 40.4% · guest 59.6%9:00 · Nathan 40.4% · guest 59.6%12:00 · Nathan 43.3% · guest 56.7%12:00 · Nathan 43.3% · guest 56.7%15:00 · Nathan 59.1% · guest 40.9%15:00 · Nathan 59.1% · guest 40.9%
Sharpest disagreement ▶ 14:15 Josh rejects CAC inquiry due to pure organic inbound

Josh pushes back on Nathan's teasing about his lack of CAC tracking by pointing out their deliberate organic search strategy.

 Hardest push from Nathan ▶ 14:10 Nathan calls out missing CAC data

Nathan ribs Josh for claiming to be an AdWords expert since age 18 while failing to track customer acquisition cost.

 Biggest teaching moment ▶ 4:50 How public record data powers real estate SEO

Josh educates Nathan on why MLS data alone limits search indexation compared to comprehensive public parcel records.

 Nathan holds their own ▶ 7:15 Synthesizing the cash cow subsidy model

Nathan cleanly summarizes Josh's capital allocation strategy of milking the B2C cash cow to fund B2B SaaS development.
the scores for every segment, with the reasoning behind each
ChapterTopicNathan as informed peerGuest teachingGuest disagreementNathan pushing backWhy
Introducing Josh Fraser: From Google AdWords to Techstars Boulder 3412 Nathan introduces Josh and asks about eStated's core business model. Josh explains the legacy real estate data landscape and how traditional vendors like CoreLogic charge prohibitive six-figure fees.
Target Verticals and Leveling the SEO Playing Field Against Zillow 5523 Nathan asks why incumbents struggle against Zillow, prompting Josh to break down the technical differences between MLS-only indexing and public record property indexing for SEO scale.
Pricing Architecture and Siphoning Profits from B2C to SaaS 6212 Nathan digs into the pricing model and quickly synthesizes how Josh uses the B2C Carfax-for-homes cash cow to fund the nascent B2B SaaS platform.
Sunsetting the Legacy Product while Scaling Sticky API Subscriptions 6312 Nathan drills down on the metrics of the B2B SaaS business, reviewing customer counts, MRR, and API call volumes while exploring contract rollover rules.
Venture Backing, Distributed Engineering, and Organic Search Mastery 6434 Nathan challenges Josh for not having a fully weighted CAC despite his AdWords background, but Josh reveals they rely entirely on organic SEO rankings where they hold top spots.

Statements from this episode (9)

Opinion
Fraser: Legacy property data providers charge exorbitant prices with severe licensing limits
“And we used handfuls of third parties that have been around for 10, 20, 30 years, like CoreLogic, Black Knight, Fannie Mae, those legacy providers, and they're, you know, exorbitantly expensive and crazy restrictions around licensing.”
Josh Fraser Feb 16, 2019 ▶ 2:21
Assertion Not checkable as stated
CoreLogic charges at least $350k per year for full geographic property data
“Once you start looking beyond what just single family homes look like and providing one report at a time and you start looking at full geographies there is just not a good solution to be able to provide this that costs less than 350 grand a year from CoreLogic…”
Josh Fraser Feb 16, 2019 ▶ 2:47
Assertion Not publicly verifiable
Zillow has over 30M indexed pages on Google compared to Remax's 5.2M
“Remax has, for example, 5.2 million pages indexed on Google. Zillow has over 30.”
Josh Fraser Feb 16, 2019 ▶ 4:25
Insight
Real estate portals need public data to index 110M+ properties for SEO
“To keep your brand around and keep it relevant. You have to have really good SEO and being able to index What would be five million properties versus a hundred and, you know, ten, hundred and twenty million properties. You have to have good public record data …”
Josh Fraser Feb 16, 2019 ▶ 5:28
Assertion Not checkable as stated
Legacy B2C home report product generated $5.8 million in 2016
“Traditionally, we had the Carfax for homes, like in 2016, that product did 5.8 million in revenue. So that is where a majority of our revenue comes from.”
Josh Fraser Feb 16, 2019 ▶ 6:56
Opinion
Fraser: B2C home data business cannot scale past $10M annually
“We knew that the B to C business didn't ever scale above ten million a year. We knew that around five million, it would take so much work to get it to a bigger number.”
Josh Fraser Feb 16, 2019 ▶ 7:53
Disclosure
Legacy B2C product retains 18,000 monthly subscribers paying $20 to $100
“We have, oh four, and we have about 18,000 monthly subscriptions on that business paying anywhere from 20 to a hundred dollars a month.”
Josh Fraser Feb 16, 2019 ▶ 8:29
Assertion Not checkable as stated
eStated reached $17,000 in MRR on B2B API
“Last month they did 17,000 in MRR.”
Josh Fraser Feb 16, 2019 ▶ 9:44
Insight
Fraser: Integrated API products have virtually zero churn
“They integrated into their stack and there's no reason to ever get rid of that once you're, once it's already integrated.”
Josh Fraser Feb 16, 2019 ▶ 9:53
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