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Jul 2, 2019 · 15m · top-founders

1438 Why He Went Public With $6m in Revenue

Nazareno Gorni · 7m spoken Nathan Latka · 6m spoken
0:00 / 0:00

gold bands on the timeline = statements, start to end. Hover to read, click to jump. CC turns on captions

MailUp co-founder Nazareno Gorni explains how the Italian marketing platform bootstrapped to €6 million in revenue, completed an unconventional public listing on the AIM market, and scaled to over €35 million through strategic acquisitions and product-led tools like BEE.

How this conversation actually went

Every chapter scored 0–10 on four independent dynamics. Hover any point for the reasoning behind the score. Nathan holds 44.7% of the talking time here. How this is scored →

Nathan as informed peer 4.8 Guest teaching 3.2 Guest disagreement 1.4 Nathan pushing back 3.0
05100:0010:000:00–4:23 · Nathan as informed peer 4/10 Book Promotion: How to Be a Capitalist Without Any Capital Following an opening book promotion monologue, Latka introduces Gorni, who immediately offers a friendly correction regarding their recent acquisition and current count of six business units. Latka maintains control by pressing for precision on whether their 35 million euro revenue figure is historical or a forward-looking run rate.4:23–7:05 · Nathan as informed peer 5/10 MailUp's Multi-Product Architecture and Customer Profiles Latka explores MailUp's diverse product portfolio, quickly calculating an average ARPU of $150 per month across 20,000 customers. Gorni clarifies that the distribution spans from $10 monthly accounts to million-euro enterprise contracts while outlining their upmarket transition.7:05–10:53 · Nathan as informed peer 6/10 Bootstrapping Origins and Listing on the AIM Market Latka challenges Gorni on why the company went public with only 6 million euros in revenue, contrasting it with US standards where startups wait until reaching nearly $100M ARR. Gorni educates Latka on the European AIM market and the structural shortage of venture capital in Italy.10:53–13:50 · Nathan as informed peer 5/10 Organic SEO Scaling and the Success of the BEE Plugin Latka probes the low customer acquisition costs and search rankings for the BEE plugin product. Gorni explains how an initial failed lead-generation attempt evolved into a successful embedded editor for over 3,000 SaaS companies following viral organic traction on Hacker News.13:51–15:38 · Nathan as informed peer 4/10 The Famous Five Rapid-Fire Questions Latka conducts the rapid-fire Famous Five questionnaire, briefly clarifying a mix-up between Gorni's age and his children's ages before concluding with an executive financial recap.0:00–4:23 · Guest teaching 3/10 Book Promotion: How to Be a Capitalist Without Any Capital Following an opening book promotion monologue, Latka introduces Gorni, who immediately offers a friendly correction regarding their recent acquisition and current count of six business units. Latka maintains control by pressing for precision on whether their 35 million euro revenue figure is historical or a forward-looking run rate.4:23–7:05 · Guest teaching 3/10 MailUp's Multi-Product Architecture and Customer Profiles Latka explores MailUp's diverse product portfolio, quickly calculating an average ARPU of $150 per month across 20,000 customers. Gorni clarifies that the distribution spans from $10 monthly accounts to million-euro enterprise contracts while outlining their upmarket transition.7:05–10:53 · Guest teaching 5/10 Bootstrapping Origins and Listing on the AIM Market Latka challenges Gorni on why the company went public with only 6 million euros in revenue, contrasting it with US standards where startups wait until reaching nearly $100M ARR. Gorni educates Latka on the European AIM market and the structural shortage of venture capital in Italy.10:53–13:50 · Guest teaching 4/10 Organic SEO Scaling and the Success of the BEE Plugin Latka probes the low customer acquisition costs and search rankings for the BEE plugin product. Gorni explains how an initial failed lead-generation attempt evolved into a successful embedded editor for over 3,000 SaaS companies following viral organic traction on Hacker News.13:51–15:38 · Guest teaching 1/10 The Famous Five Rapid-Fire Questions Latka conducts the rapid-fire Famous Five questionnaire, briefly clarifying a mix-up between Gorni's age and his children's ages before concluding with an executive financial recap.0:00–4:23 · Guest disagreement 2/10 Book Promotion: How to Be a Capitalist Without Any Capital Following an opening book promotion monologue, Latka introduces Gorni, who immediately offers a friendly correction regarding their recent acquisition and current count of six business units. Latka maintains control by pressing for precision on whether their 35 million euro revenue figure is historical or a forward-looking run rate.4:23–7:05 · Guest disagreement 1/10 MailUp's Multi-Product Architecture and Customer Profiles Latka explores MailUp's diverse product portfolio, quickly calculating an average ARPU of $150 per month across 20,000 customers. Gorni clarifies that the distribution spans from $10 monthly accounts to million-euro enterprise contracts while outlining their upmarket transition.7:05–10:53 · Guest disagreement 2/10 Bootstrapping Origins and Listing on the AIM Market Latka challenges Gorni on why the company went public with only 6 million euros in revenue, contrasting it with US standards where startups wait until reaching nearly $100M ARR. Gorni educates Latka on the European AIM market and the structural shortage of venture capital in Italy.10:53–13:50 · Guest disagreement 1/10 Organic SEO Scaling and the Success of the BEE Plugin Latka probes the low customer acquisition costs and search rankings for the BEE plugin product. Gorni explains how an initial failed lead-generation attempt evolved into a successful embedded editor for over 3,000 SaaS companies following viral organic traction on Hacker News.13:51–15:38 · Guest disagreement 1/10 The Famous Five Rapid-Fire Questions Latka conducts the rapid-fire Famous Five questionnaire, briefly clarifying a mix-up between Gorni's age and his children's ages before concluding with an executive financial recap.0:00–4:23 · Nathan pushing back 3/10 Book Promotion: How to Be a Capitalist Without Any Capital Following an opening book promotion monologue, Latka introduces Gorni, who immediately offers a friendly correction regarding their recent acquisition and current count of six business units. Latka maintains control by pressing for precision on whether their 35 million euro revenue figure is historical or a forward-looking run rate.4:23–7:05 · Nathan pushing back 3/10 MailUp's Multi-Product Architecture and Customer Profiles Latka explores MailUp's diverse product portfolio, quickly calculating an average ARPU of $150 per month across 20,000 customers. Gorni clarifies that the distribution spans from $10 monthly accounts to million-euro enterprise contracts while outlining their upmarket transition.7:05–10:53 · Nathan pushing back 5/10 Bootstrapping Origins and Listing on the AIM Market Latka challenges Gorni on why the company went public with only 6 million euros in revenue, contrasting it with US standards where startups wait until reaching nearly $100M ARR. Gorni educates Latka on the European AIM market and the structural shortage of venture capital in Italy.10:53–13:50 · Nathan pushing back 2/10 Organic SEO Scaling and the Success of the BEE Plugin Latka probes the low customer acquisition costs and search rankings for the BEE plugin product. Gorni explains how an initial failed lead-generation attempt evolved into a successful embedded editor for over 3,000 SaaS companies following viral organic traction on Hacker News.13:51–15:38 · Nathan pushing back 2/10 The Famous Five Rapid-Fire Questions Latka conducts the rapid-fire Famous Five questionnaire, briefly clarifying a mix-up between Gorni's age and his children's ages before concluding with an executive financial recap.

speaking balance: gold is Nathan, purple is the guest (3 minute bins)

0:00 · Nathan 80.9% · guest 19.1%0:00 · Nathan 80.9% · guest 19.1%3:00 · Nathan 34.8% · guest 65.2%3:00 · Nathan 34.8% · guest 65.2%6:00 · Nathan 32.2% · guest 67.8%6:00 · Nathan 32.2% · guest 67.8%9:00 · Nathan 31% · guest 69%9:00 · Nathan 31% · guest 69%12:00 · Nathan 30.2% · guest 69.8%12:00 · Nathan 30.2% · guest 69.8%15:00 · Nathan 97.4% · guest 2.6%15:00 · Nathan 97.4% · guest 2.6%
Sharpest disagreement ▶ 2:25 Immediate correction on company units

Gorni interrupts Latka's introductory premise right away to point out that they have six business units rather than five due to a fresh acquisition.

 Hardest push from Nathan ▶ 7:47 Questioning small-scale IPO logic

Latka directly challenges the company's decision to go public at only 6 million euros in revenue, pointing out the disproportionate administrative overhead compared to typical US thresholds.

 Biggest teaching moment ▶ 8:01 Explaining European AIM market mechanics

Gorni explains how the alternative investment market functions with low overhead and fills a funding void in regional ecosystems lacking venture capital.

 Nathan holds their own ▶ 3:47 Dissecting run-rate vs historical revenue

Latka refuses an ambiguous revenue answer and presses Gorni to confirm whether the 35 million euro figure represents forward ARR or historical annual results.
the scores for every segment, with the reasoning behind each
ChapterTopicNathan as informed peerGuest teachingGuest disagreementNathan pushing backWhy
Book Promotion: How to Be a Capitalist Without Any Capital 4323 Following an opening book promotion monologue, Latka introduces Gorni, who immediately offers a friendly correction regarding their recent acquisition and current count of six business units. Latka maintains control by pressing for precision on whether their 35 million euro revenue figure is historical or a forward-looking run rate.
MailUp's Multi-Product Architecture and Customer Profiles 5313 Latka explores MailUp's diverse product portfolio, quickly calculating an average ARPU of $150 per month across 20,000 customers. Gorni clarifies that the distribution spans from $10 monthly accounts to million-euro enterprise contracts while outlining their upmarket transition.
Bootstrapping Origins and Listing on the AIM Market 6525 Latka challenges Gorni on why the company went public with only 6 million euros in revenue, contrasting it with US standards where startups wait until reaching nearly $100M ARR. Gorni educates Latka on the European AIM market and the structural shortage of venture capital in Italy.
Organic SEO Scaling and the Success of the BEE Plugin 5412 Latka probes the low customer acquisition costs and search rankings for the BEE plugin product. Gorni explains how an initial failed lead-generation attempt evolved into a successful embedded editor for over 3,000 SaaS companies following viral organic traction on Hacker News.
The Famous Five Rapid-Fire Questions 4112 Latka conducts the rapid-fire Famous Five questionnaire, briefly clarifying a mix-up between Gorni's age and his children's ages before concluding with an executive financial recap.

Statements from this episode (18)

Assertion Supported
MailUp acquires Dutch AI customer journey management company
“And lastly, two days ago, we acquired a company in the Netherlands that is specialized in data-driven with AI customer journey management.”
Nazareno Gorni Jul 2, 2019 ▶ 3:26
Assertion Supported
MailUp generated over €35M in annual revenue
“The total revenue is more than thirty-five million euros.”
Nazareno Gorni Jul 2, 2019 ▶ 3:42
Assertion Contradicted
MailUp's annual revenue grew between 35% and 37%
“It's the annual revenue. So if you want to have idea of the grow rate since last year, our growth is about 35, 37%.”
Nazareno Gorni Jul 2, 2019 ▶ 3:55
Disclosure
30% of BEE Pro customers deliver campaigns via MailChimp
“With B-Pro, 30% of our clients are delivering through MailChimp and others through other solutions like Marketo, Adobe, Salesforce, or many other solutions.”
Nazareno Gorni Jul 2, 2019 ▶ 5:24
Disclosure
MailUp Group has roughly 20,000 total customers
“It's about 20,000 customers.”
Nazareno Gorni Jul 2, 2019 ▶ 5:43
Disclosure
MailUp Group contracts range from $10 monthly to €1M annually
“We have clients paying us one million euros per year, for example, and clients paying us 10 dollars a month”
Nazareno Gorni Jul 2, 2019 ▶ 6:01
Disclosure
MailUp Group acquired Acumbamail and its 45,000 Spanish-market users
“Now we have acquired Akumba Mail, which is a sort of Spanish MailChimp for the low touch market. And they have 45,000 users right now, mostly in the Spanish markets.”
Nazareno Gorni Jul 2, 2019 ▶ 6:24
Assertion Supported
MailUp founders bootstrapped the company with just €15,000 total
“We invested 15,000 euros at the beginning. Five founders and 3000 each.”
Nazareno Gorni Jul 2, 2019 ▶ 7:28
Assertion Supported
MailUp raised €3M in its 2014 IPO at €6M revenue
“We raised three million euros in 2014, and at that time our revenue was six million euros.”
Nazareno Gorni Jul 2, 2019 ▶ 7:40
Opinion
Italy's weak VC ecosystem forced MailUp to find alternative funding
“And secondly Italy is not Silicon Valley, so we don't have a very developed venture capital fund. So we needed to find a way to raise money without without having a venture capital around.”
Nazareno Gorni Jul 2, 2019 ▶ 8:16
Assertion Supported
Acumbamail grew revenue 10x to over €1M with 40% margins
“Now I think they will be more than one million, so in just three, four years, they were able to do 10 X in revenues, still with a very good profitability, because it's around 40% of EBITDA rate, so margins.”
Nazareno Gorni Jul 2, 2019 ▶ 8:56
Assertion Contradicted
MailUp acquired Acumbamail for €1.5M total including a three-year earn-out
“It's about overall including the earn out, so the three years and now it's one million and a half.”
Nazareno Gorni Jul 2, 2019 ▶ 9:47
Disclosure
MailUp targets a six to seven month acquisition payback period
“It's about six, seven months.”
Nazareno Gorni Jul 2, 2019 ▶ 11:06
Assertion Not checkable as stated
BEE's top Google ranking drives a $3 to $4 CAC
“We have a cost to acquire a client, which is very, very low. It's three, four dollars, so incredibly low. Thanks mostly to Google, because if you look for email editor on Google, we are one of the first results.”
Nazareno Gorni Jul 2, 2019 ▶ 11:20
Assertion Not checkable as stated
About 3,000 SaaS companies embed BEE's email editor plugin
“So now we have about 3000 SaaS companies using our editor inside their application.”
Nazareno Gorni Jul 2, 2019 ▶ 12:32
Assertion Supported
BEE generates more than $1M in annual revenue
“It's more than one million now.”
Nazareno Gorni Jul 2, 2019 ▶ 12:50
Assertion Not checkable as stated
BEE has approximately 5,000 paying users
“Paying users could be around I think, 5000.”
Nazareno Gorni Jul 2, 2019 ▶ 12:56
Assertion Not checkable as stated
BEE is growing its revenue at 10% month-over-month
“With a grow rate of 10% monthly.”
Nazareno Gorni Jul 2, 2019 ▶ 13:05
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