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May 10, 2020 · 24m · top-founders

1751 SendBird Messaging SDK Sitting on $100m Cash, $20m in ARR

John Kim · 11m spoken
0:00 / 0:00

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Sendbird co-founder and CEO John Kim shares how his team pivoted from a consumer app into a leading developer-focused chat SDK and API platform, surpassing $20 million in ARR while maintaining over $100 million in cash reserves.

How this conversation actually went

Every chapter scored 0–10 on four independent dynamics. Hover any point for the reasoning behind the score. Nathan holds 46.1% of the talking time here. How this is scored →

Nathan as informed peer 5.7 Guest teaching 2.9 Guest disagreement 1.1 Nathan pushing back 3.1
05100:0010:0020:001:51–4:51 · Nathan as informed peer 5/10 Sendbird Origins and the B2C to B2B Pivot Latka explores Sendbird's origins from a B2C mom community to a B2B chat SDK and contrasts it with Intercom. Kim clarifies that Sendbird specializes in developer-focused SDKs for user-to-user in-app communication.4:51–7:20 · Nathan as informed peer 5/10 MAU-Based Pricing Model and Feature Upsells Latka attempts to model pricing around message volume, but Kim corrects him by explaining they bill exclusively on monthly active users (MAU) to avoid disincentivizing usage.7:21–9:46 · Nathan as informed peer 4/10 Early Revenue Growth and Expanding Customer Base Kim provides an overview of Sendbird's growth from early YC traction to 422 enterprise customers and 200 employees, explaining their shift from inbound SEO to building an outbound sales team.9:48–13:16 · Nathan as informed peer 6/10 Fundraising History and Runway Management Latka probes into Sendbird's $120M total raise and questions Kim's statement regarding theoretical 80-year runway by calculating burn rate metrics and scenario planning during macroeconomic uncertainty.13:18–16:56 · Nathan as informed peer 5/10 Targeted M&A Strategy and Acquisition Process Kim details Sendbird's disciplined acquisition funnel, describing how they filtered 450 targets down to one term sheet within a single month to accelerate their product roadmap.16:57–20:37 · Nathan as informed peer 7/10 Surpassing the $20M ARR Milestone Latka multiplies customer numbers by ACV to deduce that Sendbird crossed $20M ARR, pressing Kim on benchmark metrics for gross revenue churn and top-quartile SaaS retention.20:37–23:23 · Nathan as informed peer 8/10 The Famous Five Rapid-Fire Questions During the Famous Five, Latka delivers a detailed financial comparison to Zoom's S-1 metrics, questioning whether Sendbird took on too much capital relative to its ARR scale.1:51–4:51 · Guest teaching 3/10 Sendbird Origins and the B2C to B2B Pivot Latka explores Sendbird's origins from a B2C mom community to a B2B chat SDK and contrasts it with Intercom. Kim clarifies that Sendbird specializes in developer-focused SDKs for user-to-user in-app communication.4:51–7:20 · Guest teaching 5/10 MAU-Based Pricing Model and Feature Upsells Latka attempts to model pricing around message volume, but Kim corrects him by explaining they bill exclusively on monthly active users (MAU) to avoid disincentivizing usage.7:21–9:46 · Guest teaching 1/10 Early Revenue Growth and Expanding Customer Base Kim provides an overview of Sendbird's growth from early YC traction to 422 enterprise customers and 200 employees, explaining their shift from inbound SEO to building an outbound sales team.9:48–13:16 · Guest teaching 3/10 Fundraising History and Runway Management Latka probes into Sendbird's $120M total raise and questions Kim's statement regarding theoretical 80-year runway by calculating burn rate metrics and scenario planning during macroeconomic uncertainty.13:18–16:56 · Guest teaching 4/10 Targeted M&A Strategy and Acquisition Process Kim details Sendbird's disciplined acquisition funnel, describing how they filtered 450 targets down to one term sheet within a single month to accelerate their product roadmap.16:57–20:37 · Guest teaching 2/10 Surpassing the $20M ARR Milestone Latka multiplies customer numbers by ACV to deduce that Sendbird crossed $20M ARR, pressing Kim on benchmark metrics for gross revenue churn and top-quartile SaaS retention.20:37–23:23 · Guest teaching 2/10 The Famous Five Rapid-Fire Questions During the Famous Five, Latka delivers a detailed financial comparison to Zoom's S-1 metrics, questioning whether Sendbird took on too much capital relative to its ARR scale.1:51–4:51 · Guest disagreement 1/10 Sendbird Origins and the B2C to B2B Pivot Latka explores Sendbird's origins from a B2C mom community to a B2B chat SDK and contrasts it with Intercom. Kim clarifies that Sendbird specializes in developer-focused SDKs for user-to-user in-app communication.4:51–7:20 · Guest disagreement 2/10 MAU-Based Pricing Model and Feature Upsells Latka attempts to model pricing around message volume, but Kim corrects him by explaining they bill exclusively on monthly active users (MAU) to avoid disincentivizing usage.7:21–9:46 · Guest disagreement 0/10 Early Revenue Growth and Expanding Customer Base Kim provides an overview of Sendbird's growth from early YC traction to 422 enterprise customers and 200 employees, explaining their shift from inbound SEO to building an outbound sales team.9:48–13:16 · Guest disagreement 1/10 Fundraising History and Runway Management Latka probes into Sendbird's $120M total raise and questions Kim's statement regarding theoretical 80-year runway by calculating burn rate metrics and scenario planning during macroeconomic uncertainty.13:18–16:56 · Guest disagreement 1/10 Targeted M&A Strategy and Acquisition Process Kim details Sendbird's disciplined acquisition funnel, describing how they filtered 450 targets down to one term sheet within a single month to accelerate their product roadmap.16:57–20:37 · Guest disagreement 2/10 Surpassing the $20M ARR Milestone Latka multiplies customer numbers by ACV to deduce that Sendbird crossed $20M ARR, pressing Kim on benchmark metrics for gross revenue churn and top-quartile SaaS retention.20:37–23:23 · Guest disagreement 1/10 The Famous Five Rapid-Fire Questions During the Famous Five, Latka delivers a detailed financial comparison to Zoom's S-1 metrics, questioning whether Sendbird took on too much capital relative to its ARR scale.1:51–4:51 · Nathan pushing back 2/10 Sendbird Origins and the B2C to B2B Pivot Latka explores Sendbird's origins from a B2C mom community to a B2B chat SDK and contrasts it with Intercom. Kim clarifies that Sendbird specializes in developer-focused SDKs for user-to-user in-app communication.4:51–7:20 · Nathan pushing back 4/10 MAU-Based Pricing Model and Feature Upsells Latka attempts to model pricing around message volume, but Kim corrects him by explaining they bill exclusively on monthly active users (MAU) to avoid disincentivizing usage.7:21–9:46 · Nathan pushing back 2/10 Early Revenue Growth and Expanding Customer Base Kim provides an overview of Sendbird's growth from early YC traction to 422 enterprise customers and 200 employees, explaining their shift from inbound SEO to building an outbound sales team.9:48–13:16 · Nathan pushing back 4/10 Fundraising History and Runway Management Latka probes into Sendbird's $120M total raise and questions Kim's statement regarding theoretical 80-year runway by calculating burn rate metrics and scenario planning during macroeconomic uncertainty.13:18–16:56 · Nathan pushing back 2/10 Targeted M&A Strategy and Acquisition Process Kim details Sendbird's disciplined acquisition funnel, describing how they filtered 450 targets down to one term sheet within a single month to accelerate their product roadmap.16:57–20:37 · Nathan pushing back 5/10 Surpassing the $20M ARR Milestone Latka multiplies customer numbers by ACV to deduce that Sendbird crossed $20M ARR, pressing Kim on benchmark metrics for gross revenue churn and top-quartile SaaS retention.20:37–23:23 · Nathan pushing back 3/10 The Famous Five Rapid-Fire Questions During the Famous Five, Latka delivers a detailed financial comparison to Zoom's S-1 metrics, questioning whether Sendbird took on too much capital relative to its ARR scale.

speaking balance: gold is Nathan, purple is the guest (3 minute bins)

0:00 · Nathan 65.7% · guest 34.3%0:00 · Nathan 65.7% · guest 34.3%3:00 · Nathan 41.6% · guest 58.4%3:00 · Nathan 41.6% · guest 58.4%6:00 · Nathan 44% · guest 56%6:00 · Nathan 44% · guest 56%9:00 · Nathan 33.5% · guest 66.5%9:00 · Nathan 33.5% · guest 66.5%12:00 · Nathan 38.1% · guest 61.9%12:00 · Nathan 38.1% · guest 61.9%15:00 · Nathan 31.2% · guest 68.8%15:00 · Nathan 31.2% · guest 68.8%18:00 · Nathan 56.1% · guest 43.9%18:00 · Nathan 56.1% · guest 43.9%21:00 · Nathan 54.4% · guest 45.6%21:00 · Nathan 54.4% · guest 45.6%24:00 · Nathan 86.3% · guest 13.7%24:00 · Nathan 86.3% · guest 13.7%
Sharpest disagreement ▶ 19:45 Polite Deflection on Specific Churn Percentages

Kim repeatedly refuses Latka's attempts to pin down exact churn percentages and ARR multiples, holding firm on keeping precise internal metrics confidential.

 Hardest push from Nathan ▶ 12:54 Dissecting the 80-Year Runway Assumption

Latka refuses to accept Kim's theoretical 80-year runway figure at face value, breaking down the exact mathematical relationship between their $102M raise and annual net burn.

 Biggest teaching moment ▶ 5:59 Correcting Host on Usage-Based Messaging Billing

Kim educates Latka on their pricing model by explaining that Sendbird charges by monthly active users rather than volume of messages sent.

 Nathan holds their own ▶ 21:15 Citing Detailed Zoom S-1 Capital Efficiency Metrics

Latka demonstrates deep SaaS domain mastery by quoting exact pre-IPO financial figures for Zoom to challenge the strategic trade-offs of Sendbird's massive Series B.
the scores for every segment, with the reasoning behind each
ChapterTopicNathan as informed peerGuest teachingGuest disagreementNathan pushing backWhy
Sendbird Origins and the B2C to B2B Pivot 5312 Latka explores Sendbird's origins from a B2C mom community to a B2B chat SDK and contrasts it with Intercom. Kim clarifies that Sendbird specializes in developer-focused SDKs for user-to-user in-app communication.
MAU-Based Pricing Model and Feature Upsells 5524 Latka attempts to model pricing around message volume, but Kim corrects him by explaining they bill exclusively on monthly active users (MAU) to avoid disincentivizing usage.
Early Revenue Growth and Expanding Customer Base 4102 Kim provides an overview of Sendbird's growth from early YC traction to 422 enterprise customers and 200 employees, explaining their shift from inbound SEO to building an outbound sales team.
Fundraising History and Runway Management 6314 Latka probes into Sendbird's $120M total raise and questions Kim's statement regarding theoretical 80-year runway by calculating burn rate metrics and scenario planning during macroeconomic uncertainty.
Targeted M&A Strategy and Acquisition Process 5412 Kim details Sendbird's disciplined acquisition funnel, describing how they filtered 450 targets down to one term sheet within a single month to accelerate their product roadmap.
Surpassing the $20M ARR Milestone 7225 Latka multiplies customer numbers by ACV to deduce that Sendbird crossed $20M ARR, pressing Kim on benchmark metrics for gross revenue churn and top-quartile SaaS retention.
The Famous Five Rapid-Fire Questions 8213 During the Famous Five, Latka delivers a detailed financial comparison to Zoom's S-1 metrics, questioning whether Sendbird took on too much capital relative to its ARR scale.

Statements from this episode (13)

Assertion Not checkable as stated
Kim: In-house chat tool generated more revenue than Sendbird's original B2C app
“So we ended up building the entire chest like ourselves and then started selling that on the sideline. And that actually generated more revenue and more customers than our main B to C application.”
John Kim May 10, 2020 ▶ 2:10
Assertion Not checkable as stated
Kim: Sendbird Powers Top Global On-Demand Platforms Except Uber
“We haven't yet won the Uber account, but we pretty much work with Uber like companies all across the world. We practically work with the number one companies in almost all countries except Uber.”
John Kim May 10, 2020 ▶ 4:36
Assertion Not checkable as stated
Sendbird Powers About 100 Million Monthly Active Chat Users
“And today we currently power about a hundred million users that chat through our platform every month.”
John Kim May 10, 2020 ▶ 5:14
Assertion Not checkable as stated
Sendbird ACVs Average Tens of Thousands, Reaching Millions Annually
“So overall ACV, I would say, is in the tens of thousands. But as small as a couple of thousand bucks a month, a year, all the way up to millions of dollars a year.”
John Kim May 10, 2020 ▶ 5:33
Assertion Not checkable as stated
Kim: Sendbird made its first revenue in May 2015 at $50/month
“That was around May of 2015 50 dollars a month, a small gaming studio.”
John Kim May 10, 2020 ▶ 7:32
Assertion Not checkable as stated
Kim: Sendbird has 422 paying customers
“We have 422 paying customers.”
John Kim May 10, 2020 ▶ 7:58
Assertion Not checkable as stated
Kim: Majority of Sendbird revenue comes from inbound developer inquiries
“So still to this day, a majority of our revenue do come from inbound inquiries from developers around the world.”
John Kim May 10, 2020 ▶ 8:48
Assertion Not checkable as stated
Kim: Sendbird's customer base is 40% US, 30% EMEA, 30% APAC
“Geo-distribution wise, we have customers in US, about 40% come from US, about 30% come from UMEA, 30% come from Apex, so it's very globally distributed.”
John Kim May 10, 2020 ▶ 8:54
Disclosure
Sendbird Raised $102M Series B from ICONIQ and Tiger Global
“And then series B, we were able to raise hundred two million dollars from Iconic Capital and Tiger Global Management.”
John Kim May 10, 2020 ▶ 10:11
Disclosure
Kim: Sendbird Retains Majority of $102M Series B Capital
“So we still have majority of the money we raised from Series B. So we're not in a rush to raise any money anytime soon, but we've been creating multiple different plans and scenarios.”
John Kim May 10, 2020 ▶ 11:35
Assertion Open · timeframe May 2020
Kim: Sendbird has surpassed the $20M ARR milestone
“Twenty million. I'll run it. Yeah. We've certainly broken, broken the milestone. We won't, I won't mention the specific traction, but that's good math.”
John Kim May 10, 2020 ▶ 17:28
Assertion Not checkable as stated
Kim: Sendbird has tracked the SaaS "triple, triple, double, double" path
“Yeah, so we've been on the path of that, you know, triple, triple, double, double, double path. Some years we've been faster, some years we've been probably a little bit slower, but roughly on that path.”
John Kim May 10, 2020 ▶ 17:48
Disclosure
Kim: Sendbird Set Out to Raise $30M–$40M Before Closing $100M
“We didn't set out to raise a hundred million. We went out to raise 30 to 40. We just ended up getting a lot of interest from the investor community.”
John Kim May 10, 2020 ▶ 22:10
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