Jun 14, 2021 · 22m · top-founders

Gong Competitor: "We'll Raise at a $120m Valuation" after breaking $6m in ARR

Sindre Haaland · 14m spoken Nathan Latka · 5m spoken
0:00 / 0:00

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In this interview, SalesScreen founder and CEO Sindri Holland discusses how the sales gamification platform scaled past $6 million in ARR and transitioned from bootstrapping to planning a $120 million valuation round. Holland shares key insights on enterprise deal growth, employee equity alignment, modular pricing, and maintaining market independence against AI-driven competitors.

How this conversation actually went

Every chapter scored 0–10 on four independent dynamics. Hover any point for the reasoning behind the score. Nathan holds 26.6% of the talking time here. How this is scored →

Nathan as informed peer 6.1 Guest teaching 1.6 Guest disagreement 1.3 Nathan pushing back 3.1
05100:0010:0020:000:45–3:58 · Nathan as informed peer 6/10 Introducing Sindri Holland and SalesScreen's Positioning Nathan probes SalesScreen's positioning against competitors like Gong and breaks down their ACV and per-seat add-on pricing model. Sindri provides clear explanations of the software modules without conflict.3:58–7:40 · Nathan as informed peer 5/10 Origins, Pivot to Gamification, and Bootstrapped Growth Sindri recounts the company's early pivot from an enterprise SMS application to gamification, bootstrapping to $3M ARR before taking outside capital when enterprise giants like Oracle showed interest.7:40–11:10 · Nathan as informed peer 7/10 Dividend History and Employee Equity Structure Nathan closely analyzes the 40% employee ownership pool and validates Sindri's ACV expansion from SMB to enterprise, calculating monthly run rates against reported ARR.11:11–13:50 · Nathan as informed peer 7/10 Debt Structure, US Relocation, and Convertible Note Nathan drills into the debt financing, secondary share sales, and the structure of an uncapped convertible note with a 20% discount. Sindri clarifies the distinction between primary capital and founder liquidity.13:50–17:53 · Nathan as informed peer 6/10 Raising at a $120M Valuation and International Headcount Sindri targets a $120M valuation for their upcoming round and discusses headcount distribution and unit economics across regions. When asked about potential buyout offers, Sindri insists on building a standalone category leader.17:54–21:16 · Nathan as informed peer 8/10 Analyzing Net Dollar Retention and Revenue Churn Nathan aggressively pushes back when Sindri cites 120% net dollar retention without knowing the underlying gross churn and contraction figures. Sindri defends the gap by noting legacy contract dashboard limitations.21:16–22:15 · Nathan as informed peer 4/10 The Famous Five Rapid-Fire Questions Nathan closes the interview with the standard Famous Five rapid-fire questions, covering sleep, tools, and age, followed by a concise recap of SalesScreen's metrics.0:45–3:58 · Guest teaching 2/10 Introducing Sindri Holland and SalesScreen's Positioning Nathan probes SalesScreen's positioning against competitors like Gong and breaks down their ACV and per-seat add-on pricing model. Sindri provides clear explanations of the software modules without conflict.3:58–7:40 · Guest teaching 3/10 Origins, Pivot to Gamification, and Bootstrapped Growth Sindri recounts the company's early pivot from an enterprise SMS application to gamification, bootstrapping to $3M ARR before taking outside capital when enterprise giants like Oracle showed interest.7:40–11:10 · Guest teaching 1/10 Dividend History and Employee Equity Structure Nathan closely analyzes the 40% employee ownership pool and validates Sindri's ACV expansion from SMB to enterprise, calculating monthly run rates against reported ARR.11:11–13:50 · Guest teaching 2/10 Debt Structure, US Relocation, and Convertible Note Nathan drills into the debt financing, secondary share sales, and the structure of an uncapped convertible note with a 20% discount. Sindri clarifies the distinction between primary capital and founder liquidity.13:50–17:53 · Guest teaching 2/10 Raising at a $120M Valuation and International Headcount Sindri targets a $120M valuation for their upcoming round and discusses headcount distribution and unit economics across regions. When asked about potential buyout offers, Sindri insists on building a standalone category leader.17:54–21:16 · Guest teaching 1/10 Analyzing Net Dollar Retention and Revenue Churn Nathan aggressively pushes back when Sindri cites 120% net dollar retention without knowing the underlying gross churn and contraction figures. Sindri defends the gap by noting legacy contract dashboard limitations.21:16–22:15 · Guest teaching 0/10 The Famous Five Rapid-Fire Questions Nathan closes the interview with the standard Famous Five rapid-fire questions, covering sleep, tools, and age, followed by a concise recap of SalesScreen's metrics.0:45–3:58 · Guest disagreement 1/10 Introducing Sindri Holland and SalesScreen's Positioning Nathan probes SalesScreen's positioning against competitors like Gong and breaks down their ACV and per-seat add-on pricing model. Sindri provides clear explanations of the software modules without conflict.3:58–7:40 · Guest disagreement 0/10 Origins, Pivot to Gamification, and Bootstrapped Growth Sindri recounts the company's early pivot from an enterprise SMS application to gamification, bootstrapping to $3M ARR before taking outside capital when enterprise giants like Oracle showed interest.7:40–11:10 · Guest disagreement 1/10 Dividend History and Employee Equity Structure Nathan closely analyzes the 40% employee ownership pool and validates Sindri's ACV expansion from SMB to enterprise, calculating monthly run rates against reported ARR.11:11–13:50 · Guest disagreement 1/10 Debt Structure, US Relocation, and Convertible Note Nathan drills into the debt financing, secondary share sales, and the structure of an uncapped convertible note with a 20% discount. Sindri clarifies the distinction between primary capital and founder liquidity.13:50–17:53 · Guest disagreement 2/10 Raising at a $120M Valuation and International Headcount Sindri targets a $120M valuation for their upcoming round and discusses headcount distribution and unit economics across regions. When asked about potential buyout offers, Sindri insists on building a standalone category leader.17:54–21:16 · Guest disagreement 3/10 Analyzing Net Dollar Retention and Revenue Churn Nathan aggressively pushes back when Sindri cites 120% net dollar retention without knowing the underlying gross churn and contraction figures. Sindri defends the gap by noting legacy contract dashboard limitations.21:16–22:15 · Guest disagreement 1/10 The Famous Five Rapid-Fire Questions Nathan closes the interview with the standard Famous Five rapid-fire questions, covering sleep, tools, and age, followed by a concise recap of SalesScreen's metrics.0:45–3:58 · Nathan pushing back 2/10 Introducing Sindri Holland and SalesScreen's Positioning Nathan probes SalesScreen's positioning against competitors like Gong and breaks down their ACV and per-seat add-on pricing model. Sindri provides clear explanations of the software modules without conflict.3:58–7:40 · Nathan pushing back 1/10 Origins, Pivot to Gamification, and Bootstrapped Growth Sindri recounts the company's early pivot from an enterprise SMS application to gamification, bootstrapping to $3M ARR before taking outside capital when enterprise giants like Oracle showed interest.7:40–11:10 · Nathan pushing back 3/10 Dividend History and Employee Equity Structure Nathan closely analyzes the 40% employee ownership pool and validates Sindri's ACV expansion from SMB to enterprise, calculating monthly run rates against reported ARR.11:11–13:50 · Nathan pushing back 4/10 Debt Structure, US Relocation, and Convertible Note Nathan drills into the debt financing, secondary share sales, and the structure of an uncapped convertible note with a 20% discount. Sindri clarifies the distinction between primary capital and founder liquidity.13:50–17:53 · Nathan pushing back 3/10 Raising at a $120M Valuation and International Headcount Sindri targets a $120M valuation for their upcoming round and discusses headcount distribution and unit economics across regions. When asked about potential buyout offers, Sindri insists on building a standalone category leader.17:54–21:16 · Nathan pushing back 8/10 Analyzing Net Dollar Retention and Revenue Churn Nathan aggressively pushes back when Sindri cites 120% net dollar retention without knowing the underlying gross churn and contraction figures. Sindri defends the gap by noting legacy contract dashboard limitations.21:16–22:15 · Nathan pushing back 1/10 The Famous Five Rapid-Fire Questions Nathan closes the interview with the standard Famous Five rapid-fire questions, covering sleep, tools, and age, followed by a concise recap of SalesScreen's metrics.

speaking balance: gold is Nathan, purple is the guest (3 minute bins)

0:00 · Nathan 47.5% · guest 52.5%0:00 · Nathan 47.5% · guest 52.5%3:00 · Nathan 12.5% · guest 87.5%3:00 · Nathan 12.5% · guest 87.5%6:00 · Nathan 16% · guest 84%6:00 · Nathan 16% · guest 84%9:00 · Nathan 22% · guest 78%9:00 · Nathan 22% · guest 78%12:00 · Nathan 25.3% · guest 74.7%12:00 · Nathan 25.3% · guest 74.7%15:00 · Nathan 18.7% · guest 81.3%15:00 · Nathan 18.7% · guest 81.3%18:00 · Nathan 28.7% · guest 71.3%18:00 · Nathan 28.7% · guest 71.3%21:00 · Nathan 57% · guest 43%21:00 · Nathan 57% · guest 43%
Sharpest disagreement ▶ 20:49 Sindri defends missing gross retention percentages

Sindri pushes back against Nathan's line of questioning by explaining that disparate sub-annual and annual legacy contracts have not yet been unified into a single dashboard.

Hardest push from Nathan ▶ 19:20 Nathan demands gross churn decomposition

Nathan refuses to accept Sindri's high-level net retention figure, bluntly stating that net retention is meaningless without breaking out gross churn versus expansion.

Biggest teaching moment ▶ 4:01 Sindri explains the Yellow Pages SMS discovery

Sindri details how a Nordic Yellow Pages client repurposed an internal SMS broadcast system into a sales motivation mechanism, educating Nathan on how SalesScreen was born.

Nathan holds their own ▶ 19:01 Nathan demonstrates cohort retention mechanics

Nathan demonstrates deep SaaS analytical rigor by breaking down how 120% net retention can mask 100% gross churn if expansion is 120%, exposing the founder's metric ambiguity.

the scores for every segment, with the reasoning behind each
ChapterTopicNathan as informed peerGuest teachingGuest disagreementNathan pushing backWhy
Introducing Sindri Holland and SalesScreen's Positioning 6212 Nathan probes SalesScreen's positioning against competitors like Gong and breaks down their ACV and per-seat add-on pricing model. Sindri provides clear explanations of the software modules without conflict.
Origins, Pivot to Gamification, and Bootstrapped Growth 5301 Sindri recounts the company's early pivot from an enterprise SMS application to gamification, bootstrapping to $3M ARR before taking outside capital when enterprise giants like Oracle showed interest.
Dividend History and Employee Equity Structure 7113 Nathan closely analyzes the 40% employee ownership pool and validates Sindri's ACV expansion from SMB to enterprise, calculating monthly run rates against reported ARR.
Debt Structure, US Relocation, and Convertible Note 7214 Nathan drills into the debt financing, secondary share sales, and the structure of an uncapped convertible note with a 20% discount. Sindri clarifies the distinction between primary capital and founder liquidity.
Raising at a $120M Valuation and International Headcount 6223 Sindri targets a $120M valuation for their upcoming round and discusses headcount distribution and unit economics across regions. When asked about potential buyout offers, Sindri insists on building a standalone category leader.
Analyzing Net Dollar Retention and Revenue Churn 8138 Nathan aggressively pushes back when Sindri cites 120% net dollar retention without knowing the underlying gross churn and contraction figures. Sindri defends the gap by noting legacy contract dashboard limitations.
The Famous Five Rapid-Fire Questions 4011 Nathan closes the interview with the standard Famous Five rapid-fire questions, covering sleep, tools, and age, followed by a concise recap of SalesScreen's metrics.

Statements from this episode (15)

Disclosure
Holland Positions SalesScreen as a Counterbalance to AI Platforms Like Gong
“We're definitely a sales tool meaning, you know, that that's the people that we talk to, but I would say we're kind of like a counterbalance to a lot of the craze recently, you know, with the outreach and I think it was Gong announcing yet another, you know, G…”
Sindre Haaland Jun 14, 2021 ▶ 1:17
Disclosure
SalesScreen Average Deal Size Reaches Approximately $24,000
“An average deal for us it sits around the 24 K today.”
Sindre Haaland Jun 14, 2021 ▶ 2:36
Assertion Partly supported
SalesScreen Bootstrapped to $3M ARR Before Raising Outside Capital
“We actually bootstrapped all the way up to 20 18 and surpassed three million dollars in ARR as a bootstrap company, a hundred percent employee owned before we Took out outside money for the first time.”
Sindre Haaland Jun 14, 2021 ▶ 5:16
Assertion Not checkable as stated
SalesScreen Paid Out Dividends to Shareholders at $2M ARR
“We passed two million dollars in AR and we were growing nicely. We had this amazing company culture and everyone was making, you know, good dollars. We're paying out dividends.”
Sindre Haaland Jun 14, 2021 ▶ 5:40
Assertion Not checkable as stated
Oracle, Dell, and SAP Inbounded for SalesScreen's Technology Around 2017
“Oracle, Dell, SAP, like these companies were knocking on our door requesting like a quote and starting to talk with us. Interested in our gamification technology”
Sindre Haaland Jun 14, 2021 ▶ 5:55
Disclosure
SalesScreen Raised Initial $2M in Equity Alongside $4M in Debt
“I raised like two million dollars just to have something to start with. And then since then I haven't really done any missions either. Just taken, I guess, total four million more in loan.”
Sindre Haaland Jun 14, 2021 ▶ 7:11
Disclosure
SalesScreen Employees Owned 40% of the Company Before First Funding
“Yeah, me and my co-founders, we, at that point in time, I think we own roughly 60%, perhaps, and the rest 40%.”
Sindre Haaland Jun 14, 2021 ▶ 8:54
Assertion Not checkable as stated
SalesScreen Now Serves Over 400 Customers and 20,000 Sales Reps
“Now it's only a bit north of 400 customers and, you know, 20,000 ish salespeople on the platform.”
Sindre Haaland Jun 14, 2021 ▶ 9:35
Prediction Not checkable as stated
SalesScreen Surpassed $6M ARR and Projects $10M by End of 2021
“We're probably gonna end this year around 10. So I think if I'm gonna look at my book revenues right now, we're a bit north of six million dollars.”
Sindre Haaland Jun 14, 2021 ▶ 9:53
Assertion Not checkable as stated
SalesScreen Surpassed $4M ARR in Mid-2020
“Exactly a year ago you know, a bit less than four.”
Sindre Haaland Jun 14, 2021 ▶ 10:37
Assertion Not checkable as stated
SalesScreen Hits 100% YoY Growth, Averaging 56% Since 2015
“If we look at like since 2015 is 56% year over year growth. And if we look at the annualized growth of like last quarter, where it's 71% the quarter before that, or like 160%. So it still goes a bit up and up and down because we have more of these enterprise d…”
Sindre Haaland Jun 14, 2021 ▶ 10:47
Assertion Not checkable as stated
SalesScreen Generates One-Third of Its Revenue from North America
“So we shifted our revenue from being like mainly coming out of Europe. And the Nordics to having like you know, one third of the revenue coming out of North America and, you know, growing very fast.”
Sindre Haaland Jun 14, 2021 ▶ 12:06
Disclosure
SalesScreen Raised an Uncapped Convertible Note Ahead of Upcoming Growth Round
“And then we did a convertible note this year, just getting up to a bigger round. No, I was only on a discount on the next round.”
Sindre Haaland Jun 14, 2021 ▶ 13:29
Prediction Open · timeframe Jun 2024
Holland Expects Next Funding Round to Value SalesScreen North of $120M
“Right now you know, it's definitely going to be north of a hundred and twelve million, hundred and twenty million dollars.”
Sindre Haaland Jun 14, 2021 ▶ 13:55
Assertion Not checkable as stated
SalesScreen Hits 120% Net Dollar Retention Following Eight Quarters of Growth
“So a 120%. This yeah, so it's pretty, and it's growing actually. It's grown over the last eight consecutive quarter.”
Sindre Haaland Jun 14, 2021 ▶ 18:00
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