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Jul 1, 2021 · 16m · top-founders

Indie Riches: He Makes More Now Than The $100k Job That Laid Him Off in 2019

Cam Sloan · 10m spoken Nathan Latka · 3m spoken
0:00 / 0:00

gold bands on the timeline = statements, start to end. Hover to read, click to jump. CC turns on captions

In this episode of Conversations with Nathan Latka, software developer and entrepreneur Cam Sloan discusses how he navigated a corporate layoff to earn six figures through freelance consulting while bootstrapping his SaaS onboarding platform, Hopscotch.

How this conversation actually went

Every chapter scored 0–10 on four independent dynamics. Hover any point for the reasoning behind the score. Nathan holds 26.2% of the talking time here. How this is scored →

Nathan as informed peer 3.8 Guest teaching 2.4 Guest disagreement 1.2 Nathan pushing back 2.2
05100:0010:000:00–3:24 · Nathan as informed peer 5/10 Episode Preview: Early Access Customers and Building Hopscotch Nathan presses Cam to articulate Hopscotch's unique value proposition beyond competing on low pricing against established players like Pendo. Cam explains the UX frustrations with current onboarding tools and his focus on timing-based tours.3:24–5:32 · Nathan as informed peer 4/10 Early Customer Onboarding and Flexible Pricing Exploration Nathan inquires about early traction, customer numbers, and pricing models. Cam breaks down his $20 versus $99 tiering strategy while doing manual onboarding, which Nathan validates as best practice.5:32–9:14 · Nathan as informed peer 4/10 Bootstrapped Growth and Organic Customer Acquisition Channels Nathan drills into the financial math behind Cam's transition into entrepreneurship after being laid off in 2019, specifically probing his savings buffer and Toronto living expenses.9:15–11:52 · Nathan as informed peer 3/10 Surpassing Six-Figure Corporate Salary Through Independent Freelancing Cam outlines how freelancing part-time allowed him to surpass his former six-figure corporate developer salary without burnout, providing financial runway for his SaaS product.11:52–15:38 · Nathan as informed peer 3/10 Sourcing Freelance Clients Through Professional and Social Networks Cam explains why broadcast networking and working with his previous employer proved more lucrative than freelance platforms like Toptal or Upwork, followed by the Famous Five wrap-up.0:00–3:24 · Guest teaching 2/10 Episode Preview: Early Access Customers and Building Hopscotch Nathan presses Cam to articulate Hopscotch's unique value proposition beyond competing on low pricing against established players like Pendo. Cam explains the UX frustrations with current onboarding tools and his focus on timing-based tours.3:24–5:32 · Guest teaching 2/10 Early Customer Onboarding and Flexible Pricing Exploration Nathan inquires about early traction, customer numbers, and pricing models. Cam breaks down his $20 versus $99 tiering strategy while doing manual onboarding, which Nathan validates as best practice.5:32–9:14 · Guest teaching 2/10 Bootstrapped Growth and Organic Customer Acquisition Channels Nathan drills into the financial math behind Cam's transition into entrepreneurship after being laid off in 2019, specifically probing his savings buffer and Toronto living expenses.9:15–11:52 · Guest teaching 3/10 Surpassing Six-Figure Corporate Salary Through Independent Freelancing Cam outlines how freelancing part-time allowed him to surpass his former six-figure corporate developer salary without burnout, providing financial runway for his SaaS product.11:52–15:38 · Guest teaching 3/10 Sourcing Freelance Clients Through Professional and Social Networks Cam explains why broadcast networking and working with his previous employer proved more lucrative than freelance platforms like Toptal or Upwork, followed by the Famous Five wrap-up.0:00–3:24 · Guest disagreement 2/10 Episode Preview: Early Access Customers and Building Hopscotch Nathan presses Cam to articulate Hopscotch's unique value proposition beyond competing on low pricing against established players like Pendo. Cam explains the UX frustrations with current onboarding tools and his focus on timing-based tours.3:24–5:32 · Guest disagreement 1/10 Early Customer Onboarding and Flexible Pricing Exploration Nathan inquires about early traction, customer numbers, and pricing models. Cam breaks down his $20 versus $99 tiering strategy while doing manual onboarding, which Nathan validates as best practice.5:32–9:14 · Guest disagreement 1/10 Bootstrapped Growth and Organic Customer Acquisition Channels Nathan drills into the financial math behind Cam's transition into entrepreneurship after being laid off in 2019, specifically probing his savings buffer and Toronto living expenses.9:15–11:52 · Guest disagreement 1/10 Surpassing Six-Figure Corporate Salary Through Independent Freelancing Cam outlines how freelancing part-time allowed him to surpass his former six-figure corporate developer salary without burnout, providing financial runway for his SaaS product.11:52–15:38 · Guest disagreement 1/10 Sourcing Freelance Clients Through Professional and Social Networks Cam explains why broadcast networking and working with his previous employer proved more lucrative than freelance platforms like Toptal or Upwork, followed by the Famous Five wrap-up.0:00–3:24 · Nathan pushing back 5/10 Episode Preview: Early Access Customers and Building Hopscotch Nathan presses Cam to articulate Hopscotch's unique value proposition beyond competing on low pricing against established players like Pendo. Cam explains the UX frustrations with current onboarding tools and his focus on timing-based tours.3:24–5:32 · Nathan pushing back 2/10 Early Customer Onboarding and Flexible Pricing Exploration Nathan inquires about early traction, customer numbers, and pricing models. Cam breaks down his $20 versus $99 tiering strategy while doing manual onboarding, which Nathan validates as best practice.5:32–9:14 · Nathan pushing back 2/10 Bootstrapped Growth and Organic Customer Acquisition Channels Nathan drills into the financial math behind Cam's transition into entrepreneurship after being laid off in 2019, specifically probing his savings buffer and Toronto living expenses.9:15–11:52 · Nathan pushing back 1/10 Surpassing Six-Figure Corporate Salary Through Independent Freelancing Cam outlines how freelancing part-time allowed him to surpass his former six-figure corporate developer salary without burnout, providing financial runway for his SaaS product.11:52–15:38 · Nathan pushing back 1/10 Sourcing Freelance Clients Through Professional and Social Networks Cam explains why broadcast networking and working with his previous employer proved more lucrative than freelance platforms like Toptal or Upwork, followed by the Famous Five wrap-up.

speaking balance: gold is Nathan, purple is the guest (3 minute bins)

0:00 · Nathan 45.3% · guest 54.7%0:00 · Nathan 45.3% · guest 54.7%3:00 · Nathan 13.6% · guest 86.4%3:00 · Nathan 13.6% · guest 86.4%6:00 · Nathan 23.7% · guest 76.3%6:00 · Nathan 23.7% · guest 76.3%9:00 · Nathan 24.7% · guest 75.3%9:00 · Nathan 24.7% · guest 75.3%12:00 · Nathan 16% · guest 84%12:00 · Nathan 16% · guest 84%15:00 · Nathan 47.1% · guest 52.9%15:00 · Nathan 47.1% · guest 52.9%
Sharpest disagreement ▶ 1:35 Cam defends early product positioning

Cam pushes back against standard product parity assumptions by explaining that high enterprise pricing by competitors creates a massive unserved market for indie founders.

 Hardest push from Nathan ▶ 2:16 Nathan demands differentiation beyond pricing

Nathan refuses to accept price undercutting as a long-term strategy and directly challenges Cam to explain what unique product innovations Hopscotch will offer.

 Biggest teaching moment ▶ 12:00 Cam details organic freelance client acquisition

Cam educates listeners and the host on bypassing freelance marketplaces in favor of public social announcements and pitching former employers.

 Nathan holds their own ▶ 1:24 Nathan benchmarks against onboarding market leaders

Nathan demonstrates domain knowledge of the onboarding software landscape by naming key competitors like Pendo and challenging early-stage product roadmaps.
the scores for every segment, with the reasoning behind each
ChapterTopicNathan as informed peerGuest teachingGuest disagreementNathan pushing backWhy
Episode Preview: Early Access Customers and Building Hopscotch 5225 Nathan presses Cam to articulate Hopscotch's unique value proposition beyond competing on low pricing against established players like Pendo. Cam explains the UX frustrations with current onboarding tools and his focus on timing-based tours.
Early Customer Onboarding and Flexible Pricing Exploration 4212 Nathan inquires about early traction, customer numbers, and pricing models. Cam breaks down his $20 versus $99 tiering strategy while doing manual onboarding, which Nathan validates as best practice.
Bootstrapped Growth and Organic Customer Acquisition Channels 4212 Nathan drills into the financial math behind Cam's transition into entrepreneurship after being laid off in 2019, specifically probing his savings buffer and Toronto living expenses.
Surpassing Six-Figure Corporate Salary Through Independent Freelancing 3311 Cam outlines how freelancing part-time allowed him to surpass his former six-figure corporate developer salary without burnout, providing financial runway for his SaaS product.
Sourcing Freelance Clients Through Professional and Social Networks 3311 Cam explains why broadcast networking and working with his previous employer proved more lucrative than freelance platforms like Toptal or Upwork, followed by the Famous Five wrap-up.

Statements from this episode (11)

Assertion Not checkable as stated
Cam Sloan: SaaS onboarding tools moved upmarket to $300-$500 monthly
“All these other solutions have gone so far up market that they're really inaccessible to the majority of people who are trying to get their startups up and running. So the pricing in a lot of these tools will start at like 300 dollars a month, 500 dollars a mo…”
Cam Sloan Jul 1, 2021 ▶ 1:48
Disclosure
Cam Sloan: Hopscotch has three paying customers and several pilot testers
“I have three paying customers and I have, you know, a handful more that are kind of piloting it out”
Cam Sloan Jul 1, 2021 ▶ 3:48
Disclosure
Cam Sloan: Hopscotch charges early customers between $20 and $99 monthly
“I have someone paying 20 bucks a month. I have another paying 99 per month. And then someone in between.”
Cam Sloan Jul 1, 2021 ▶ 4:15
Insight
Cam Sloan: Quiet launches and manual onboarding yield better launch data
“I really like the strategy of kind of launching quietly or like doing all this in the background and onboarding customers manually to start with, because then I can have this like data and this information to know how I should go about it when I put it up.”
Cam Sloan Jul 1, 2021 ▶ 5:06
Assertion Not checkable as stated
Cam Sloan: Twitter build-in-public updates drove initial customer referrals
“Honestly, most of the work that I've been doing, I share publicly on Twitter. And so Twitter has been really helpful, even though most of the people who follow me are not like great customer fit, they will often like refer other people who are asking about it …”
Cam Sloan Jul 1, 2021 ▶ 5:42
Disclosure
Cam Sloan had $40K to $60K CAD in runway after 2019 layoff
“I don't remember exactly because like between investments and such, but let's say like, I don't know, between 40 and 60 grand Canadian.”
Cam Sloan Jul 1, 2021 ▶ 7:38
Assertion Not checkable as stated
Cam Sloan: Six months of freelancing surpassed prior full-time salary
“And working about half the year on my contracting freelance stuff was able to surpass my revenue at my Full-time job.”
Cam Sloan Jul 1, 2021 ▶ 9:52
Assertion Not checkable as stated
Cam Sloan: Prior full-time tech salary was $100K to $125K CAD
“So it was just over a hundred K Canadian, probably like one 25 or so.”
Cam Sloan Jul 1, 2021 ▶ 10:34
Insight
Sloan: Freelancing is one of the best transitions into tech entrepreneurship
“If you're a developer, if you're a designer and you're looking to go become an entrepreneur anyway, then like, Probably one of the best ways to start is to go and find some freelance clients. It's going to get you comfortable talking with people doing sales an…”
Cam Sloan Jul 1, 2021 ▶ 11:23
Disclosure
Cam Sloan's first freelance client was the company that laid him off
“My first client was the company that laid me off. I helped them for like another set number of hours on some work that they had.”
Cam Sloan Jul 1, 2021 ▶ 12:14
Disclosure
Cam Sloan needed five or six freelance clients to earn decent wages
“I think I only needed like Five or six throughout the year last year to make a decent wage.”
Cam Sloan Jul 1, 2021 ▶ 12:53
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