Mar 3, 2025 · 30m · the-pitch
#44 Is This Sports App the Next OpenTable?
Topias Soininen · 10m spoken Josh Muccio · 6m spoken Michael Hyatt · 3m spoken Jillian Manus · 2m spoken Howie Diamond · 2m spoken Phil Nadel · 56s spoken
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gold bands on the timeline = statements, start to end. Hover to read, click to jump. CC turns on captions
Finnish founder Topias Soininen pitches Playven, a recreational tennis booking and club management platform, seeking a two-million-dollar investment on The Pitch. The investor panel ultimately passes on the deal due to concerns over an unjustified eight-million-dollar valuation, minimal revenue, and strategic confusion between its B2B SaaS and B2C marketplace models.
How this conversation actually went
Every chapter scored 0–10 on four independent dynamics. Hover any point for the reasoning behind the score. Josh holds 26.9% of the talking time here. How this is scored →
Josh as informed peer 6.5 Guest teaching 3.3 Guest disagreement 4.8 Josh pushing back 6.8
speaking balance: gold is Josh, purple is the guest (3 minute bins)
Sharpest disagreement ▶ 12:22 Valuation defense pushback
Topias refuses to back down when Michael points out he doubled his valuation since April, insisting the company was undervalued in the prior round and could have easily commanded $8M.
Hardest push from Josh ▶ 12:29 Michael calls timeout on valuation claimsMichael Hyatt completely halts Topias's attempt to spin his April round valuation, insisting that factual fundraises cannot simply be explained away.
Biggest teaching moment ▶ 8:23 Unveiling the SaaS platform modelTopias reframes the entire business model for the investors by explaining how Playven functions as a comprehensive backend club management system rather than just a simple consumer booking app.
Josh holds their own ▶ 13:01 Phil Nadel's decisive passPhil methodically itemizes the startup's flaws—minimal $2,000 monthly revenue after two years, undefined CAC, and lack of urgency—to justify dropping out on the spot.
the scores for every segment, with the reasoning behind each
| Chapter | Topic | Josh as informed peer | Guest teaching | Guest disagreement | Josh pushing back | Why |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| The Tennis Problem and Initial Valuation Pushback | 5 | 2 | 3 | 6 | Topias introduces Playven and asks for $2 million at an $8 million valuation. Jillian immediately questions the high valuation and asks for unit economics, prompting Topias to deflect by offering an app demo. | |
| Marketplace Demonstration and Revenue Discrepancies | 6 | 4 | 4 | 7 | Investors drill into Topias's numbers after he demonstrates the app, uncovering that despite 200,000 bookings, monthly revenue is only $2,000 because most bookings are free in Finland. Michael and Howie push back on the lack of growth over two years. | |
| The SaaS Discovery and Unit Economics Debate | 7 | 5 | 7 | 7 | The investors discover Playven is also a SaaS backend for clubs, generating most of its revenue from only 24 paying facilities. Michael questions the slim margins and high CAC, but Topias forcefully disagrees, arguing that 10% is sufficient due to high organic player retention. | |
| Valuation Scrutiny and Phil Nadel's Pass | 8 | 3 | 6 | 8 | Topias reveals he raised at a $4M valuation just months earlier in April, prompting Michael and Jillian to reject his justification for doubling it to $8M. Phil Nadel passes abruptly due to lack of urgency and low revenue. | |
| Final Investor Rejections and Pitch Departure | 7 | 2 | 5 | 8 | Phil and Michael challenge the low SaaS pricing for an allegedly mission-critical tool. All remaining investors pass sequentially, with Jillian citing the push-me-pull-you dynamic of trying to be both a SaaS platform and a consumer marketplace. | |
| Investor Post-Mortem on Focus and Valuation | 6 | 4 | 4 | 5 | The investors hold a post-mortem debating Playven's addressable market and dual identity. Josh follows up with Topias, who explains why expanding from Finland to the U.S. was essential for raising venture capital. |
Statements from this episode (20)
Soininen: 14,000 US tennis clubs suffer from unused capacity
“At the same time, there's 14,000 tennis clubs in the U.S. That have a lot of unused capacity.”
Playven has processed almost 200,000 bookings across 180 clubs
“We've already processed over two, almost 200,000 bookings. We, ah, at 180 tennis clubs.”
Soininen: Playven generates only $2,000 a month in revenue
“Revenue we're making about 2000 bucks a month right now.”
Playven spent zero dollars on user acquisition through May
“So up until May of this year, we haven't spent any money on user acquisition.”
Hyatt: Low-gross-margin businesses struggle to achieve net profitability
“It's very hard to invest in a company that can't show a big gross margin, because it's very hard to ever get to a net margin.”
Hyatt: Playven's 10% take rate is probably not enough to scale
“The reason it's very very expensive, is that 10% gets eaten very quickly on customer acquisition cost, your marketing costs, you're getting in the players. So the 10% isn't probably enough to scale. You have to go through a lot of cash.”
Playven raised a $450K bridge round at a $4M valuation
“The latest we raised is like a 450,000 bridging round at a four million dollar valuation.”
Soininen: Playven could have raised its bridge round at $8M
“We could have, ah, gone to them at eight and we probably should have, ah, we like.”
Manus: Playven's revenue does not justify an $8M valuation
“No, you shouldn't have because your revenue and this does not, ah, represent an eight million dollar valuation.”
Phil Nadel passes on Playven, citing founder's lack of urgency
“There's a lack of urgency that I'm not, as an investor, comfortable with, so I'm going to pass.”
Soininen: Playven is a full club management system unlike ClassPass
“We're a full-on club management system for tennis and sports clubs, where you manage space bookings, lessons in clinics, coaches so it's a completely different product on the backend side compared to ClassPass.”
Diamond: Playven cannot successfully do both SaaS and a marketplace
“You're doing two things, and I don't think you can do both.”
Soininen: No HotelTonight or OpenTable for sports exists globally
“In the world, like there isn't anything like hotel tonight or open table for sports that doesn't exist anywhere in the world, really.”
Manus would invest in Playven at a $4M to $4.5M valuation
“If this was at four million, I would definitely come into this, or 4.5.”
Hyatt: Potential means nothing if founders cannot crystallize their value
“For the listeners, I think what they have to see in this one is that you can come in here with tremendous potential in a business, but if you can't crystallize the value of your business to investors, it doesn't work.”
Nadel: Playven only has 24 paying clubs after years of operating
“He's been doing this for a few years. He only has 24 clubs paying him.”
Manus: Topias Soininen lacks capacity to build a cross-sport platform
“But also, I don't think he has the capacity to build out a platform for all sports across, right, all venues.”
Soininen expects to raise at a valuation above $4M in the fall
“I think you know, we, I believe we can raise money at a bigger valuation than four at this point. We just, you know, need to clarify that focus a little bit and that's what we're doing. So I think, you know, once we show that we'll be able to raise at a bigger…”
Soininen: Sports court booking can reach venture scale like OpenTable
“I completely disagree with that. A great example of this is, is open table. They started off as a booking system and then they become this billionaire billion dollar platform for a marketplace for finding a restaurant. So I completely disagree with that.”