Mar 3, 2025 · 30m · the-pitch
#50 Ticket Scalpers, Beware! Blockchain Is Coming for You.
Harold Hughes · 12m spoken Josh Muccio · 4m spoken Phil Nadel · 2m spoken Jillian Manus · 2m spoken Michael Hyatt · 2m spoken Howie Diamond · 1m spoken
0:00 / 0:00
▶ Watch on YouTube →
gold bands on the timeline = statements, start to end. Hover to read, click to jump. CC turns on captions
Harold Hughes pitches Bandwagon, an enterprise blockchain platform designed to eradicate counterfeit tickets and track secondary sports market data, to a panel of venture capitalists on The Pitch. Despite demonstrating pilot traction and technical differentiation, Hughes leaves without a deal as investors cite concerns over entrenched industry gatekeepers, lengthy enterprise sales cycles, and a well-capitalized competitor.
How this conversation actually went
Every chapter scored 0–10 on four independent dynamics. Hover any point for the reasoning behind the score. Josh holds 21.6% of the talking time here. How this is scored →
Josh as informed peer 6.0 Guest teaching 5.9 Guest disagreement 2.7 Josh pushing back 5.0
speaking balance: gold is Josh, purple is the guest (3 minute bins)
Sharpest disagreement ▶ 18:38 Harold forcefully asserts his enterprise sales track record
When investors express skepticism about navigating complex sales pipelines, Harold strongly pushes back by citing his past enterprise sales to Kodak, Blockbuster, and Facebook.
Hardest push from Josh ▶ 14:37 Jillian rejects the viability of relying on a Ticketmaster integrationJillian bluntly challenges Harold's strategy of prioritizing primary ticketing giants, warning from personal experience that Ticketmaster has near-impenetrable sales and integration cycles.
Biggest teaching moment ▶ 11:34 Harold explains why IBM Hyperledger Fabric outperforms public crypto chainsHarold immediately neutralizes the competitor threat by educating the room on technical throughput limitations in Ethereum versus IBM Hyperledger Fabric for high-frequency ticketing.
Josh holds their own ▶ 11:12 Howie reveals direct competitor backed by industry heavyweightsHowie demonstrates superior insider knowledge by revealing that crypto veteran Fluffy Pony partnered with former Ticketfly and Redbox executives to launch a $10M competing venture.
the scores for every segment, with the reasoning behind each
| Chapter | Topic | Josh as informed peer | Guest teaching | Guest disagreement | Josh pushing back | Why |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| Harold Hughes Presents Bandwagon's Ticket Fraud Solution | 5 | 4 | 1 | 1 | Harold introduces Bandwagon's blockchain solution for sports ticketing fraud. Michael Hyatt and host Josh Muccio step in to explain distributed immutable ledgers to the audience. | |
| API Mechanics, Secondary Markets, and Sacramento State Pilot | 5 | 6 | 2 | 5 | Phil presses on whether sports teams actually care about tracking secondary sales compared to secondary platforms. Harold educates the panel on why tracking must start with the primary asset issuer and shares Sacramento State pilot data. | |
| Monetization Strategy, Rev-Shares, and Demographic Upselling | 6 | 7 | 3 | 5 | Jillian cites her sports management background to question the value proposition to teams. Harold counters by detailing non-Ticketmaster markets (college sports, minor leagues), the secondary revenue share, and concession upselling data. | |
| Howie Diamond Drops the Fluffy Pony Competitor Bombshell | 7 | 8 | 4 | 6 | Howie drops insider intel regarding Fluffy Pony raising a $10M round for an identical business. Harold expertly reframes by explaining why Bandwagon uses IBM Hyperledger Fabric for transaction speed rather than Ethereum or crypto tokens. | |
| Primary Gatekeeper Roadblocks and Howie Diamond Passes | 6 | 5 | 3 | 7 | Jillian and Phil press Harold on the arduous multi-year sales cycles of primary ticketing giants like Ticketmaster. Howie bows out citing the heavily funded competitor led by industry veterans. | |
| Valuation Disagreements and Final Investor Passes | 7 | 5 | 4 | 8 | Investors challenge Harold's $7.5M valuation cap and multi-sided sales burden. Harold vigorously defends his resilience and enterprise sales record before Phil, Michael, and Jillian officially pass. | |
| Investor Deliberations on Blockchain Paradigms and Execution | 6 | 6 | 2 | 3 | Investors debate protocol versus application investments in blockchain. In the post-pitch interview, Josh queries Harold on his strategic adjustments and reactions after being blindsided by Howie's competitor reveal. |
Statements from this episode (18)
Hughes: Hundreds of fans were turned away with fake NBA Finals tickets
“Hundreds of fans were turned away at the gate this year for the NBA Finals, because unbeknownst to them, they had fake tickets.”
Hughes: Bandwagon is raising $1.5M to address $2.3B ticket fraud industry
“So my team, small yet scrappy, is here raising 1.5 million dollars to address the 2.3 billion dollar ticket fraud industry and really reshape what authenticity and validity looks like in the secondary ticket market.”
Hughes: Bandwagon captured data on 48% of attendees in Sacramento State pilot
“We captured 48% of their baseball fans in our eight game pilot with them.”
Manus: Bandwagon provides little value to sports teams
“They like to control their tickets, they like to know what's going on, but I don't see this as a big value to the teams, to tell you the truth.”
Hughes: 50 million college football fans sit outside Ticketmaster's control
“Fifty million fans go to college football every year, and that's largely not Ticketmaster.”
Hughes: Bandwagon has 558,000 tickets loaded on its blockchain
“So we have 558,000 tickets already on our blockchain for an MLS soccer team, and we have an NFL team that shares that same stadium.”
Diamond: Fluffy Pony's rival blockchain ticketing startup closed a $10M round
“He partnered with some, he partnered with the ex-CEO of, I believe, Ticketfly, and he also partnered with the ex a good friend of mine who started Redbox Tickets, and the three of them got together and are doing the exact same thing and just closed, like, a te…”
Hughes: Ethereum lacks the speed required for digital ticket transactions
“The biggest challenge in that is that they are using Ethereum and other blockchains that don't have the speed that are able to keep up with the way that tickets are going to be transacted digitally.”
Bandwagon is one of the first ticketing partners on IBM Hyperledger
“We're one of the first partners in IBM's Hyperledger Fabric blockchain using it in a ticketing application.”
Hughes: Bandwagon can generate $100K in revenue per stadium
“We should be able to do a 100,000 dollars per stadium that we sign on.”
Hughes: Bandwagon has one team on blockchain and a Ticketmaster API
“And so we have one team that's already loaded their blockchain, their tickets. Another one will go in on July. We're redesigning our dashboard. There's an API that we've already built for Ticketmaster customers.”
Manus: Ticketmaster is hard to integrate with and has long sales cycles
“Just so you know, I've worked with TickMaster a lot. This is not an easy left. Just so you know, it's hard to integrate into their system. It's hard to get in their trust. It's a long sales cycle. It's a long integration cycle. It's a long, it's, there's a lot…”
Diamond: Bandwagon's rival blockchain startup is one to two years ahead
“They're very well funded, and I feel like they're a year or two ahead of you, and I didn't get into their last round because I was staying away from blockchain.”
Hughes: Bandwagon will sign three more stadiums in 2018
“We'll sign three more teams three more stadiums. Two of them will be NFL, or excuse me, two of them will be professional and then one of them will be a collegiate team.”
Diamond: Hughes will easily raise his $1.5M round for Bandwagon
“I think he'll raise this round, no problem. He's great. He'll get to 1.5, and then we'll see where it goes.”
Diamond: Blockchain is a paradigm shift comparable to mobile and cloud
“But I think the blockchain is a paradigm shift. I mean, there is the mobile computing paradigm shift. There was the cloud computing paradigm shift. I think the blockchain is a new paradigm shift.”