Mar 3, 2025 · 32m · the-pitch
#66 Does Anyone Really Want Your Product?
Dennis Meng · 10m spoken Josh Muccio · 6m spoken Michael Hyatt · 4m spoken Charles Hudson · 1m spoken Jillian Manus · 1m spoken Phil Nadel · 60s spoken
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gold bands on the timeline = statements, start to end. Hover to read, click to jump. CC turns on captions
Dennis Meng pitches User Interviews on The Pitch, defending the necessity of human market research against investor skepticism to secure commitments and ultimately close an oversubscribed $5 million financing round.
How this conversation actually went
Every chapter scored 0–10 on four independent dynamics. Hover any point for the reasoning behind the score. Josh holds 26.4% of the talking time here. How this is scored →
Josh as informed peer 4.7 Guest teaching 3.0 Guest disagreement 2.6 Josh pushing back 3.9
speaking balance: gold is Josh, purple is the guest (3 minute bins)
Sharpest disagreement ▶ 9:45 Dennis directly refutes Michael's thesis on AI replacement
Dennis bluntly states 'here's why you're wrong' and refuses to yield to Michael's assertion that predictive AI will wipe out human user testing.
Hardest push from Josh ▶ 16:17 Michael attacks Dennis's valuation and pricing optimismMichael refuses Dennis's framing that they are not optimizing for price, pointing out Dennis's own hard valuation floor and aggressive multiple expectations.
Biggest teaching moment ▶ 9:45 Dennis educates investors on pre-product user researchDennis explains that predictive algorithms cannot forecast user needs before a product exists, citing real-world data and user research teams at Microsoft.
Josh holds their own ▶ 14:05 Michael deconstructs Dennis's enterprise revenue modelMichael cuts through Dennis's $400k enterprise framing, forcing Dennis to admit the actual ticket price is $50k-$60k on a classic land-and-expand trajectory.
the scores for every segment, with the reasoning behind each
| Chapter | Topic | Josh as informed peer | Guest teaching | Guest disagreement | Josh pushing back | Why |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| Dennis Meng Launches the Pitch and Outlines the Product Problem | 4 | 3 | 2 | 3 | Dennis delivers a clear overview of User Interviews and its two revenue streams. When Charles tries to interject, Dennis politely insists on finishing his explanation of the new SaaS research hub. | |
| Dennis Meng's Background and Airport User Feedback Hustle | 5 | 6 | 6 | 7 | Michael challenges the startup's fundamental premise, arguing predictive AI will render human test groups obsolete. Dennis pushes back directly with 'here's why you're wrong' and cites user research practices at Microsoft and Amazon. | |
| Addressable Market Sizing, Revenue Projections, and Valuation Negotiations | 6 | 4 | 5 | 7 | Michael aggressively dissects Dennis's pricing assumptions and ARR multiples, pushing Dennis on valuation floors. Dennis firmly defends his pricing power and refuses to let Michael value the recruiting business at zero. | |
| Investor Deliberations and Securing $450,000 in Commitments | 4 | 1 | 1 | 2 | Deliberations conclude favorably as Charles passes respectfully on scale concerns while Michael, Phil, and Jillian commit $450k total, praising Dennis's composure under fire. | |
| Post-Pitch Investor Debrief: The Importance of Room Control | 5 | 2 | 1 | 2 | Josh conducts a post-pitch debrief where Charles highlights how rare and valuable it is when an entrepreneur refuses to let VCs derail the narrative with half-baked tangents. | |
| Mid-Roll Teaser: Tracking Deal Follow-Through After the Pitch | 4 | 3 | 1 | 2 | In a follow-up interview with Josh, Dennis reflects on why standing his ground during the AI debate was crucial for maintaining narrative control, before revealing Accomplice led the round. | |
| Michael Hyatt's Explanation: How the Deal Ended Up in Spam | 5 | 2 | 2 | 4 | Josh holds Michael accountable for dropping the ball on the deal, prompting Michael's mea culpa about emails landing in spam before Dennis reveals he oversubscribed to $5 million. |
Statements from this episode (20)
Meng: Spotify, Pinterest, Wayfair, and hundreds more use User Interviews monthly
“Companies like Spotify, Pinterest, Wayfair, and Vistaprint, hundreds of others are using our platform every single month.”
Meng: User Interviews charges an average of $30 per recruited participant
“On average, that's 30 dollars per participant.”
User Interviews is closing its first $42,000 annual enterprise contract
“So we're in the middle of closing our first it's about a 42,000 dollar annual contract.”
Meng bought refundable plane tickets to interview travelers past airport security
“Our solution was to go buy refundable plane tickets go sit at airport security and then just talk to people waiting for their flights.”
Hyatt: AI prediction engines will eventually make human user research obsolete
“I think I could invest in your company, and I think for the next two, three years, you can make some money, but I don't think you're going to be right for long, because I believe we have to wipe out all the people, and you have to make a prediction engine that…”
Meng: Microsoft expects to recruit 100,000 people for user research
“Microsoft, they're expecting to bring in a 100,000 people over, you know, maybe not next year, but in a couple years down the line.”
Meng: Amazon releases production code every 11 seconds
“Amazon is releasing production code every 11 seconds.”
User Interviews grew monthly bookings from $25,000 to $150,000
“We've grown 10% month over month since we raised our seed round February of 2017. We went from 25,000 dollars a month to 150,000 dollars a month in bookings.”
Meng sets a strict $12M valuation floor for his funding round
“We're definitely not going below twelve million.”
Hudson: Dennis Meng gave one of the strongest pitches on the show
“I think this is one of the clearest, strongest presentations I've seen on the pitch.”
Michael Hyatt offers to invest $50k to $150k in User Interviews
“I think I'd put you know, between 50 to 150,000.”
Phil Nadel offers to invest $300,000 in User Interviews
“And for me, I obviously need to see what the valuation is to see what I'm investing in, but I'd like to invest 300,000.”
Jillian Manus commits $100,000 angel investment to User Interviews
“So I'd like to commit right now a 100,000 of my own money as an angel.”
Hudson: Founders must control the dialogue and flow during investor pitches
“I think part of a good pitch is the entrepreneur needs to control the dialogue. He needs to control the flow of the conversation.”
Accomplice prices User Interviews' funding round at a $15M valuation
“An accomplice settled on a fifteen million dollar valuation for user interviews, which is smack dab in the middle of the range talked about on the show.”
Jillian Manus passes on User Interviews due to the $15M valuation
“Jillian ended up getting back to me and saying that the price was a little too high for them to participate.”
Hyatt missed investing in User Interviews due to a flooded inbox
“After the show, you know, you're delused with a whole bunch of stuff, and then you get back into your working life, and then you have a whole bunch of deals going on, and I know this is a poor excuse for the people who listen to this show, but I literally drop…”