Mar 3, 2025 · 27m · the-pitch

#93 David vs. Godzilla

Alon Schwartz · 13m spoken
0:00 / 0:00
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gold bands on the timeline = statements, start to end. Hover to read, click to jump. CC turns on captions

This episode chronicles the rise and fall of Unglue, a parental control startup founded by Alon Schwartz, as it struggles to survive direct competition and deplatforming after Apple launches its native Screen Time feature. Through Schwartz's harrowing journey of relentless perseverance, personal grief, and eventual closure, the story highlights the perils of platform monopolies and the psychological resilience required in entrepreneurship.

How this conversation actually went

Every chapter scored 0–10 on four independent dynamics. Hover any point for the reasoning behind the score. Josh holds 40.4% of the talking time here. How this is scored →

Josh as informed peer 2.5 Guest teaching 1.8 Guest disagreement 0.4 Josh pushing back 0.5
05100:0010:0020:000:59–3:02 · Josh as informed peer 3/10 The Genesis and Development of Unglue Josh narrates the backstory and plays archival clips of Alon explaining the genesis of Unglue. There is no tension or disagreement; Josh provides context on the technology while Alon explains his product.3:03–6:24 · Josh as informed peer 4/10 The Pitch: Skepticism Over Product Viability Archival pitch excerpts show investors questioning if Unglue is just a feature or Google Calendar, while Alon defends the broader vision. Josh curates the narrative on early growth and the emerging Apple threat.6:26–11:11 · Josh as informed peer 2/10 Making a Meaningful Human Impact Alon reflects emotionally on user impact and the devastating moment Apple announced Screen Time at WWDC. Josh guides the storytelling empathetically without challenge.11:27–15:10 · Josh as informed peer 3/10 Severe Layoffs and Running Out of Runway Josh and Alon discuss Apple abruptly banning parental control apps from the App Store. Josh interjects with technical understanding of VPN and MDM policies while Alon details the unfairness.15:12–18:39 · Josh as informed peer 2/10 Fighting Back and Securing Reinstatement Alon explains how Unglue secured App Store reinstatement due to its unique router hardware, followed by his personal tragedy and Shark Tank invitation. Josh listens attentively.18:41–22:14 · Josh as informed peer 3/10 Pitching the Sharks and Parallel Acquisition Talks Josh asks clarifying financial and timeline questions regarding the Shark Tank offer and the near-acquisition by a major router company that collapsed at the last minute.22:16–24:35 · Josh as informed peer 1/10 Decoupling Identity and Embracing the Failure Alon shares philosophical lessons on decoupling founder identity from startup failure. Josh prompts him to explore his personal takeaways.24:42–26:56 · Josh as informed peer 2/10 Moving Forward with Trellis and Reclaimed Pride Josh checks in on Alon's new role at Trellis and whether he can drink from his old company mugs with pride. Josh closes with an outro reflection on founder perseverance.0:59–3:02 · Guest teaching 2/10 The Genesis and Development of Unglue Josh narrates the backstory and plays archival clips of Alon explaining the genesis of Unglue. There is no tension or disagreement; Josh provides context on the technology while Alon explains his product.3:03–6:24 · Guest teaching 3/10 The Pitch: Skepticism Over Product Viability Archival pitch excerpts show investors questioning if Unglue is just a feature or Google Calendar, while Alon defends the broader vision. Josh curates the narrative on early growth and the emerging Apple threat.6:26–11:11 · Guest teaching 1/10 Making a Meaningful Human Impact Alon reflects emotionally on user impact and the devastating moment Apple announced Screen Time at WWDC. Josh guides the storytelling empathetically without challenge.11:27–15:10 · Guest teaching 2/10 Severe Layoffs and Running Out of Runway Josh and Alon discuss Apple abruptly banning parental control apps from the App Store. Josh interjects with technical understanding of VPN and MDM policies while Alon details the unfairness.15:12–18:39 · Guest teaching 1/10 Fighting Back and Securing Reinstatement Alon explains how Unglue secured App Store reinstatement due to its unique router hardware, followed by his personal tragedy and Shark Tank invitation. Josh listens attentively.18:41–22:14 · Guest teaching 1/10 Pitching the Sharks and Parallel Acquisition Talks Josh asks clarifying financial and timeline questions regarding the Shark Tank offer and the near-acquisition by a major router company that collapsed at the last minute.22:16–24:35 · Guest teaching 3/10 Decoupling Identity and Embracing the Failure Alon shares philosophical lessons on decoupling founder identity from startup failure. Josh prompts him to explore his personal takeaways.24:42–26:56 · Guest teaching 1/10 Moving Forward with Trellis and Reclaimed Pride Josh checks in on Alon's new role at Trellis and whether he can drink from his old company mugs with pride. Josh closes with an outro reflection on founder perseverance.0:59–3:02 · Guest disagreement 0/10 The Genesis and Development of Unglue Josh narrates the backstory and plays archival clips of Alon explaining the genesis of Unglue. There is no tension or disagreement; Josh provides context on the technology while Alon explains his product.3:03–6:24 · Guest disagreement 2/10 The Pitch: Skepticism Over Product Viability Archival pitch excerpts show investors questioning if Unglue is just a feature or Google Calendar, while Alon defends the broader vision. Josh curates the narrative on early growth and the emerging Apple threat.6:26–11:11 · Guest disagreement 0/10 Making a Meaningful Human Impact Alon reflects emotionally on user impact and the devastating moment Apple announced Screen Time at WWDC. Josh guides the storytelling empathetically without challenge.11:27–15:10 · Guest disagreement 1/10 Severe Layoffs and Running Out of Runway Josh and Alon discuss Apple abruptly banning parental control apps from the App Store. Josh interjects with technical understanding of VPN and MDM policies while Alon details the unfairness.15:12–18:39 · Guest disagreement 0/10 Fighting Back and Securing Reinstatement Alon explains how Unglue secured App Store reinstatement due to its unique router hardware, followed by his personal tragedy and Shark Tank invitation. Josh listens attentively.18:41–22:14 · Guest disagreement 0/10 Pitching the Sharks and Parallel Acquisition Talks Josh asks clarifying financial and timeline questions regarding the Shark Tank offer and the near-acquisition by a major router company that collapsed at the last minute.22:16–24:35 · Guest disagreement 0/10 Decoupling Identity and Embracing the Failure Alon shares philosophical lessons on decoupling founder identity from startup failure. Josh prompts him to explore his personal takeaways.24:42–26:56 · Guest disagreement 0/10 Moving Forward with Trellis and Reclaimed Pride Josh checks in on Alon's new role at Trellis and whether he can drink from his old company mugs with pride. Josh closes with an outro reflection on founder perseverance.0:59–3:02 · Josh pushing back 0/10 The Genesis and Development of Unglue Josh narrates the backstory and plays archival clips of Alon explaining the genesis of Unglue. There is no tension or disagreement; Josh provides context on the technology while Alon explains his product.3:03–6:24 · Josh pushing back 2/10 The Pitch: Skepticism Over Product Viability Archival pitch excerpts show investors questioning if Unglue is just a feature or Google Calendar, while Alon defends the broader vision. Josh curates the narrative on early growth and the emerging Apple threat.6:26–11:11 · Josh pushing back 0/10 Making a Meaningful Human Impact Alon reflects emotionally on user impact and the devastating moment Apple announced Screen Time at WWDC. Josh guides the storytelling empathetically without challenge.11:27–15:10 · Josh pushing back 1/10 Severe Layoffs and Running Out of Runway Josh and Alon discuss Apple abruptly banning parental control apps from the App Store. Josh interjects with technical understanding of VPN and MDM policies while Alon details the unfairness.15:12–18:39 · Josh pushing back 0/10 Fighting Back and Securing Reinstatement Alon explains how Unglue secured App Store reinstatement due to its unique router hardware, followed by his personal tragedy and Shark Tank invitation. Josh listens attentively.18:41–22:14 · Josh pushing back 1/10 Pitching the Sharks and Parallel Acquisition Talks Josh asks clarifying financial and timeline questions regarding the Shark Tank offer and the near-acquisition by a major router company that collapsed at the last minute.22:16–24:35 · Josh pushing back 0/10 Decoupling Identity and Embracing the Failure Alon shares philosophical lessons on decoupling founder identity from startup failure. Josh prompts him to explore his personal takeaways.24:42–26:56 · Josh pushing back 0/10 Moving Forward with Trellis and Reclaimed Pride Josh checks in on Alon's new role at Trellis and whether he can drink from his old company mugs with pride. Josh closes with an outro reflection on founder perseverance.

speaking balance: gold is Josh, purple is the guest (3 minute bins)

0:00 · Josh 52.5% · guest 47.5%0:00 · Josh 52.5% · guest 47.5%3:00 · Josh 39.6% · guest 60.4%3:00 · Josh 39.6% · guest 60.4%6:00 · Josh 39.7% · guest 60.3%6:00 · Josh 39.7% · guest 60.3%9:00 · Josh 36.8% · guest 63.2%9:00 · Josh 36.8% · guest 63.2%12:00 · Josh 31.5% · guest 68.5%12:00 · Josh 31.5% · guest 68.5%15:00 · Josh 37.8% · guest 62.2%15:00 · Josh 37.8% · guest 62.2%18:00 · Josh 46% · guest 54%18:00 · Josh 46% · guest 54%21:00 · Josh 9.6% · guest 90.4%21:00 · Josh 9.6% · guest 90.4%24:00 · Josh 58.7% · guest 41.3%24:00 · Josh 58.7% · guest 41.3%27:00 · Josh 100% · guest 0%27:00 · Josh 100% · guest 0%
Sharpest disagreement ▶ 14:25 Alon rails against Apple's unfair anti-competitive tactics

Alon passionately expresses outrage over Apple changing App Store policies to arbitrarily eliminate competing parental control apps.

Hardest push from Josh ▶ 4:10 Investor challenges Unglue as just Google Calendar

During the archival pitch segment, an investor sharply pushes back on Alon's vision by questioning whether the app is merely a calendar clone.

Biggest teaching moment ▶ 23:07 Alon explains founder identity decoupling

Alon educates the audience and host on the mental necessity of separating founder self-worth from business failure.

Josh holds their own ▶ 14:05 Josh highlights widespread MDM usage

Josh immediately demonstrates domain knowledge by noting that countless legitimate apps rely on MDM and VPN protocols that Apple cited as policy violations.

the scores for every segment, with the reasoning behind each
ChapterTopicJosh as informed peerGuest teachingGuest disagreementJosh pushing backWhy
The Genesis and Development of Unglue 3200 Josh narrates the backstory and plays archival clips of Alon explaining the genesis of Unglue. There is no tension or disagreement; Josh provides context on the technology while Alon explains his product.
The Pitch: Skepticism Over Product Viability 4322 Archival pitch excerpts show investors questioning if Unglue is just a feature or Google Calendar, while Alon defends the broader vision. Josh curates the narrative on early growth and the emerging Apple threat.
Making a Meaningful Human Impact 2100 Alon reflects emotionally on user impact and the devastating moment Apple announced Screen Time at WWDC. Josh guides the storytelling empathetically without challenge.
Severe Layoffs and Running Out of Runway 3211 Josh and Alon discuss Apple abruptly banning parental control apps from the App Store. Josh interjects with technical understanding of VPN and MDM policies while Alon details the unfairness.
Fighting Back and Securing Reinstatement 2100 Alon explains how Unglue secured App Store reinstatement due to its unique router hardware, followed by his personal tragedy and Shark Tank invitation. Josh listens attentively.
Pitching the Sharks and Parallel Acquisition Talks 3101 Josh asks clarifying financial and timeline questions regarding the Shark Tank offer and the near-acquisition by a major router company that collapsed at the last minute.
Decoupling Identity and Embracing the Failure 1300 Alon shares philosophical lessons on decoupling founder identity from startup failure. Josh prompts him to explore his personal takeaways.
Moving Forward with Trellis and Reclaimed Pride 2100 Josh checks in on Alon's new role at Trellis and whether he can drink from his old company mugs with pride. Josh closes with an outro reflection on founder perseverance.

Statements from this episode (11)

Assertion Not checkable as stated
Schwartz: Unglue grew 10% week-over-week in its slowest early-2018 periods
“I mean, we grew 10% week over week at the Slowest times.”
Alon Schwartz Mar 3, 2025 ▶ 6:16
Disclosure
Schwartz: Unglue had under two months runway when Screen Time launched
“I think at that point it was, I think like two months, maybe, maybe less.”
Alon Schwartz Mar 3, 2025 ▶ 10:50
Assertion Not publicly verifiable
Schwartz: Apple pulled Unglue from the App Store before launching Screen Time
“We actually were the first app that got pulled.”
Alon Schwartz Mar 3, 2025 ▶ 13:05
Assertion Partly supported
Schwartz: Apple removed dozens of competing parental control apps
“Tens. Tens of apps.”
Alon Schwartz Mar 3, 2025 ▶ 13:27
Opinion
Schwartz: Apple is an unfair competitor that pulls no punches
“I mean, you're, you truly fighting an unfair game, an unfair competitor that is just pulling no punches.”
Alon Schwartz Mar 3, 2025 ▶ 14:44
Assertion Partly supported
Schwartz: A hardware loophole got Unglue reinstated in the App Store
“In, in Unglu case, we had that kind of one capability that no one else had, which is We had a hardware component, and they could, their terms of service did not include that, and that allows me to bring the app back to the app store.”
Alon Schwartz Mar 3, 2025 ▶ 16:00
Assertion Not checkable as stated
Schwartz: Shark Tank accepted Unglue the night my father passed away
“The most, I, ironic if I can even call it such the night my dad passed away I got a call from Shark Tank, I'm in Israel and they tell me that I want it, I'm in, that filming will start in 10 days.”
Alon Schwartz Mar 3, 2025 ▶ 17:58
Assertion Not publicly verifiable
Schwartz: Robert Herjavec offered to invest in Unglue on Shark Tank
“So, I actually got a shark to invest, to want to invest.”
Alon Schwartz Mar 3, 2025 ▶ 19:15
Assertion Not checkable as stated
Schwartz: Unglue almost sold to a massive global router company
“Someone was definitely interested. And it was one of the biggest router companies in the world.”
Alon Schwartz Mar 3, 2025 ▶ 20:09
What-if
Schwartz: Collapsed acquisition would have more than doubled investor money
“They would have more than double. Yeah.”
Alon Schwartz Mar 3, 2025 ▶ 21:53
Opinion
Schwartz: Unglue forced Apple's hand to build native Screen Time
“I mean, we forced Apple's hand. We introduced this concept To the world.”
Alon Schwartz Mar 3, 2025 ▶ 25:42
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