Mar 4, 2025 · 34m · the-pitch

#108 Qleek Pt. III: A Postmortem and a Comeback

Ismail Salhi · 18m spoken Josh Muccio · 9m spoken Johanna Hartzheim · 4s spoken Matteo Vallazza · 2s spoken
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This retrospective episode of The Pitch chronicles the rise and pandemic-induced collapse of physical media startup Qleek, followed by founders Ishmael and Johanna applying hard-won lessons to build and scale Wildgrain into a profitable direct-to-consumer bakery subscription.

How this conversation actually went

Every chapter scored 0–10 on four independent dynamics. Hover any point for the reasoning behind the score. Josh holds 32.8% of the talking time here. How this is scored →

Josh as informed peer 2.6 Guest teaching 2.4 Guest disagreement 1.6 Josh pushing back 1.6
05100:0010:0020:0030:000:00–3:22 · Josh as informed peer 1/10 Recap of Qleek's Pitch and Unexpected Second Chance Josh narrates the backstory and plays archival clips of Qleek's initial pitch room appearance and community syndicate turnaround. There is no live interactive tension or debate.3:33–8:11 · Josh as informed peer 3/10 Pivoting Qleek to Mobile NFC and B2B Partnerships Ismail recounts pivoting to NFC software and securing enterprise deals with Amazon and Tidal despite raising very little capital. Josh asks inquisitive questions and contextualizes the timing gap between hardware decline and crypto/NFT emergence.8:14–12:20 · Josh as informed peer 3/10 The Impact of COVID-19 and Shutting Down Qleek Josh presses Ismail on whether Qleek's collapse was a failure of founder execution. Ismail firmly rejects the premise, detailing the extensive software and hardware platform their tiny three-person team built before COVID crushed their live-events model.12:23–15:06 · Josh as informed peer 2/10 Delivering Bad News to Investors and Planning Independence Ismail reflects on the emotional burden of breaking the news to angel investors like Mateo and Axel, which instilled a commitment to building a venture-independent business next.15:07–19:34 · Josh as informed peer 4/10 Genesis of Wildgrain and Perfecting Parbaked Bread Josh challenges the viability of subscription box models by citing massive burn and churn at HelloFresh and Blue Apron. Ismail counters with the ButcherBox playbook and explains their technical discovery of parbaking sourdough to survive shipping.19:36–23:34 · Josh as informed peer 2/10 Funding Wildgrain and Scrappy Pandemic Production Ismail describes pitching Axel with freshly baked warm bread and securing $750k, followed by grueling early pandemic production runs with a newborn baby.23:35–29:12 · Josh as informed peer 4/10 Scaling Through Bakery Partnerships to Achieve Profitability Ismail rejects Josh's comparison of Wildgrain to Amazon, explaining how they empower local artisan bakeries. He educates Josh on their disciplined $60 CAC ceiling and achieving profitability in month two per customer.29:12–32:45 · Josh as informed peer 2/10 Reflections on Qleek, Investor Updates, and Subscription Order The conversation concludes warmly with Ismail expressing zero regrets over the Qleek journey, followed by Josh's wife signing up live for a Wildgrain subscription.0:00–3:22 · Guest teaching 0/10 Recap of Qleek's Pitch and Unexpected Second Chance Josh narrates the backstory and plays archival clips of Qleek's initial pitch room appearance and community syndicate turnaround. There is no live interactive tension or debate.3:33–8:11 · Guest teaching 3/10 Pivoting Qleek to Mobile NFC and B2B Partnerships Ismail recounts pivoting to NFC software and securing enterprise deals with Amazon and Tidal despite raising very little capital. Josh asks inquisitive questions and contextualizes the timing gap between hardware decline and crypto/NFT emergence.8:14–12:20 · Guest teaching 3/10 The Impact of COVID-19 and Shutting Down Qleek Josh presses Ismail on whether Qleek's collapse was a failure of founder execution. Ismail firmly rejects the premise, detailing the extensive software and hardware platform their tiny three-person team built before COVID crushed their live-events model.12:23–15:06 · Guest teaching 2/10 Delivering Bad News to Investors and Planning Independence Ismail reflects on the emotional burden of breaking the news to angel investors like Mateo and Axel, which instilled a commitment to building a venture-independent business next.15:07–19:34 · Guest teaching 4/10 Genesis of Wildgrain and Perfecting Parbaked Bread Josh challenges the viability of subscription box models by citing massive burn and churn at HelloFresh and Blue Apron. Ismail counters with the ButcherBox playbook and explains their technical discovery of parbaking sourdough to survive shipping.19:36–23:34 · Guest teaching 2/10 Funding Wildgrain and Scrappy Pandemic Production Ismail describes pitching Axel with freshly baked warm bread and securing $750k, followed by grueling early pandemic production runs with a newborn baby.23:35–29:12 · Guest teaching 4/10 Scaling Through Bakery Partnerships to Achieve Profitability Ismail rejects Josh's comparison of Wildgrain to Amazon, explaining how they empower local artisan bakeries. He educates Josh on their disciplined $60 CAC ceiling and achieving profitability in month two per customer.29:12–32:45 · Guest teaching 1/10 Reflections on Qleek, Investor Updates, and Subscription Order The conversation concludes warmly with Ismail expressing zero regrets over the Qleek journey, followed by Josh's wife signing up live for a Wildgrain subscription.0:00–3:22 · Guest disagreement 0/10 Recap of Qleek's Pitch and Unexpected Second Chance Josh narrates the backstory and plays archival clips of Qleek's initial pitch room appearance and community syndicate turnaround. There is no live interactive tension or debate.3:33–8:11 · Guest disagreement 1/10 Pivoting Qleek to Mobile NFC and B2B Partnerships Ismail recounts pivoting to NFC software and securing enterprise deals with Amazon and Tidal despite raising very little capital. Josh asks inquisitive questions and contextualizes the timing gap between hardware decline and crypto/NFT emergence.8:14–12:20 · Guest disagreement 4/10 The Impact of COVID-19 and Shutting Down Qleek Josh presses Ismail on whether Qleek's collapse was a failure of founder execution. Ismail firmly rejects the premise, detailing the extensive software and hardware platform their tiny three-person team built before COVID crushed their live-events model.12:23–15:06 · Guest disagreement 1/10 Delivering Bad News to Investors and Planning Independence Ismail reflects on the emotional burden of breaking the news to angel investors like Mateo and Axel, which instilled a commitment to building a venture-independent business next.15:07–19:34 · Guest disagreement 2/10 Genesis of Wildgrain and Perfecting Parbaked Bread Josh challenges the viability of subscription box models by citing massive burn and churn at HelloFresh and Blue Apron. Ismail counters with the ButcherBox playbook and explains their technical discovery of parbaking sourdough to survive shipping.19:36–23:34 · Guest disagreement 1/10 Funding Wildgrain and Scrappy Pandemic Production Ismail describes pitching Axel with freshly baked warm bread and securing $750k, followed by grueling early pandemic production runs with a newborn baby.23:35–29:12 · Guest disagreement 3/10 Scaling Through Bakery Partnerships to Achieve Profitability Ismail rejects Josh's comparison of Wildgrain to Amazon, explaining how they empower local artisan bakeries. He educates Josh on their disciplined $60 CAC ceiling and achieving profitability in month two per customer.29:12–32:45 · Guest disagreement 1/10 Reflections on Qleek, Investor Updates, and Subscription Order The conversation concludes warmly with Ismail expressing zero regrets over the Qleek journey, followed by Josh's wife signing up live for a Wildgrain subscription.0:00–3:22 · Josh pushing back 0/10 Recap of Qleek's Pitch and Unexpected Second Chance Josh narrates the backstory and plays archival clips of Qleek's initial pitch room appearance and community syndicate turnaround. There is no live interactive tension or debate.3:33–8:11 · Josh pushing back 1/10 Pivoting Qleek to Mobile NFC and B2B Partnerships Ismail recounts pivoting to NFC software and securing enterprise deals with Amazon and Tidal despite raising very little capital. Josh asks inquisitive questions and contextualizes the timing gap between hardware decline and crypto/NFT emergence.8:14–12:20 · Josh pushing back 3/10 The Impact of COVID-19 and Shutting Down Qleek Josh presses Ismail on whether Qleek's collapse was a failure of founder execution. Ismail firmly rejects the premise, detailing the extensive software and hardware platform their tiny three-person team built before COVID crushed their live-events model.12:23–15:06 · Josh pushing back 1/10 Delivering Bad News to Investors and Planning Independence Ismail reflects on the emotional burden of breaking the news to angel investors like Mateo and Axel, which instilled a commitment to building a venture-independent business next.15:07–19:34 · Josh pushing back 4/10 Genesis of Wildgrain and Perfecting Parbaked Bread Josh challenges the viability of subscription box models by citing massive burn and churn at HelloFresh and Blue Apron. Ismail counters with the ButcherBox playbook and explains their technical discovery of parbaking sourdough to survive shipping.19:36–23:34 · Josh pushing back 1/10 Funding Wildgrain and Scrappy Pandemic Production Ismail describes pitching Axel with freshly baked warm bread and securing $750k, followed by grueling early pandemic production runs with a newborn baby.23:35–29:12 · Josh pushing back 2/10 Scaling Through Bakery Partnerships to Achieve Profitability Ismail rejects Josh's comparison of Wildgrain to Amazon, explaining how they empower local artisan bakeries. He educates Josh on their disciplined $60 CAC ceiling and achieving profitability in month two per customer.29:12–32:45 · Josh pushing back 1/10 Reflections on Qleek, Investor Updates, and Subscription Order The conversation concludes warmly with Ismail expressing zero regrets over the Qleek journey, followed by Josh's wife signing up live for a Wildgrain subscription.

speaking balance: gold is Josh, purple is the guest (3 minute bins)

0:00 · Josh 62.5% · guest 37.5%0:00 · Josh 62.5% · guest 37.5%3:00 · Josh 53.6% · guest 46.4%3:00 · Josh 53.6% · guest 46.4%6:00 · Josh 22.8% · guest 77.2%6:00 · Josh 22.8% · guest 77.2%9:00 · Josh 16.6% · guest 83.4%9:00 · Josh 16.6% · guest 83.4%12:00 · Josh 10.7% · guest 89.3%12:00 · Josh 10.7% · guest 89.3%15:00 · Josh 25.1% · guest 74.9%15:00 · Josh 25.1% · guest 74.9%18:00 · Josh 22.4% · guest 77.6%18:00 · Josh 22.4% · guest 77.6%21:00 · Josh 21.2% · guest 78.8%21:00 · Josh 21.2% · guest 78.8%24:00 · Josh 25.6% · guest 74.4%24:00 · Josh 25.6% · guest 74.4%27:00 · Josh 32.3% · guest 67.7%27:00 · Josh 32.3% · guest 67.7%30:00 · Josh 38.7% · guest 61.3%30:00 · Josh 38.7% · guest 61.3%33:00 · Josh 82.7% · guest 17.3%33:00 · Josh 82.7% · guest 17.3%
Sharpest disagreement ▶ 11:31 Vigorous rejection of execution failure

When Josh asks if Qleek died due to poor execution, Ismail immediately rejects the framing, defending his three-person team's massive technical output.

Hardest push from Josh ▶ 15:16 Challenging subscription box economics

Josh directly challenges the decision to launch a subscription box by citing the notorious marketing burn and churn rates of giants like Blue Apron and HelloFresh.

Biggest teaching moment ▶ 27:18 Explaining the $60 CAC discipline and breakeven mechanics

Ismail details the exact unit economics that separate Wildgrain from unprofitable VC-backed subscription models, explaining their strict $60 customer acquisition cap.

Josh holds their own ▶ 15:16 Drilling into subscription box churn pitfalls

Josh demonstrates his familiarity with venture-backed direct-to-consumer failure modes, pointing out the specific structural weaknesses of e-commerce food subscriptions.

the scores for every segment, with the reasoning behind each
ChapterTopicJosh as informed peerGuest teachingGuest disagreementJosh pushing backWhy
Recap of Qleek's Pitch and Unexpected Second Chance 1000 Josh narrates the backstory and plays archival clips of Qleek's initial pitch room appearance and community syndicate turnaround. There is no live interactive tension or debate.
Pivoting Qleek to Mobile NFC and B2B Partnerships 3311 Ismail recounts pivoting to NFC software and securing enterprise deals with Amazon and Tidal despite raising very little capital. Josh asks inquisitive questions and contextualizes the timing gap between hardware decline and crypto/NFT emergence.
The Impact of COVID-19 and Shutting Down Qleek 3343 Josh presses Ismail on whether Qleek's collapse was a failure of founder execution. Ismail firmly rejects the premise, detailing the extensive software and hardware platform their tiny three-person team built before COVID crushed their live-events model.
Delivering Bad News to Investors and Planning Independence 2211 Ismail reflects on the emotional burden of breaking the news to angel investors like Mateo and Axel, which instilled a commitment to building a venture-independent business next.
Genesis of Wildgrain and Perfecting Parbaked Bread 4424 Josh challenges the viability of subscription box models by citing massive burn and churn at HelloFresh and Blue Apron. Ismail counters with the ButcherBox playbook and explains their technical discovery of parbaking sourdough to survive shipping.
Funding Wildgrain and Scrappy Pandemic Production 2211 Ismail describes pitching Axel with freshly baked warm bread and securing $750k, followed by grueling early pandemic production runs with a newborn baby.
Scaling Through Bakery Partnerships to Achieve Profitability 4432 Ismail rejects Josh's comparison of Wildgrain to Amazon, explaining how they empower local artisan bakeries. He educates Josh on their disciplined $60 CAC ceiling and achieving profitability in month two per customer.
Reflections on Qleek, Investor Updates, and Subscription Order 2111 The conversation concludes warmly with Ismail expressing zero regrets over the Qleek journey, followed by Josh's wife signing up live for a Wildgrain subscription.

Statements from this episode (8)

Assertion Not publicly verifiable
Salhi: Amazon, Audible, and Tidal bought Qleek's NFC products
“We got Amazon. Audible was buying our stuff. We got title to buy our stuff.”
Ismail Salhi Mar 4, 2025 ▶ 6:04
What-if
Qleek founder claims they would have raised heavily during NFT boom
“Like, if we would have survived COVID, or if COVID didn't happen, the NFT thing would have happened, and then we would have raised so much money.”
Ismail Salhi Mar 4, 2025 ▶ 11:15
Disclosure
Salhi: Qleek's failure caused trauma, required new business to avoid VCs
“The trauma of clique made me think if I have to start a new business, it has to be completely or Very, very independent from VC funding, that we could try it, and if it fails, we'll know it quickly, but if it succeeds, it can fund itself without external, addi…”
Ismail Salhi Mar 4, 2025 ▶ 14:40
Assertion Contradicted
Bold Ventures invested $750,000 into Wildgrain
“Seven 50.”
Ismail Salhi Mar 4, 2025 ▶ 21:16
Assertion Not checkable as stated
Wildgrain retained 60% of members 12 months after its initial launch
“It was a year after we launched, so May, 2020, we had, like, 60% of the members still ordering boxes.”
Ismail Salhi Mar 4, 2025 ▶ 25:55
Disclosure
Wildgrain capped customer acquisition cost at $60 to break even quickly
“It was 60 dollars. So you, we spend 60 dollars to acquire a customer, and then we don't spend more than that. Even if spending more than that would bring in a lot more customers, we don't, because we want to make sure that we break even in box two.”
Ismail Salhi Mar 4, 2025 ▶ 27:29
Assertion Not checkable as stated
Wildgrain reached monthly net profitability at the time of recording
“We are actually turning into profit this month.”
Ismail Salhi Mar 4, 2025 ▶ 27:53
Opinion
Salhi: Qleek failed because it lacked resources for proper marketing
“We had very enthusiastic customers. We just never marketed that product properly. Never. Because we never had the resources and the opportunity to do so.”
Ismail Salhi Mar 4, 2025 ▶ 30:10
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