Mar 4, 2025 · 29m · the-pitch
#112 Natrion: The Holy Grail of Battery Tech
Alex Besenval · 9m spoken Josh Muccio · 5m spoken Jillian Manus · 3m spoken Mark Phillips · 2m spoken Phil Nadel · 2m spoken Victor Gutwein · 34s spoken Neal Sales-Griffin · 30s spoken
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gold bands on the timeline = statements, start to end. Hover to read, click to jump. CC turns on captions
Twenty-one-year-old founder Alex Besenval pitches Natrion's drop-in solid-state battery electrolyte to venture capitalists on The Pitch, illustrating the massive potential and complex due diligence hurdles of commercializing deep-tech clean energy innovations.
How this conversation actually went
Every chapter scored 0–10 on four independent dynamics. Hover any point for the reasoning behind the score. Josh holds 24.7% of the talking time here. How this is scored →
Josh as informed peer 3.4 Guest teaching 5.2 Guest disagreement 1.8 Josh pushing back 3.2
speaking balance: gold is Josh, purple is the guest (3 minute bins)
Sharpest disagreement ▶ 7:18 Alex Rejects Band-Aid Characterization
Alex firmly counters Phil's suggestion that Natrion is just a temporary placeholder for ceramics, citing data showing cell performance right on the heels of publicly listed ceramic competitors.
Hardest push from Josh ▶ 7:09 Phil Probes Band-Aid Moat RiskPhil directly challenges the long-term viability of Natrion's hybrid approach, asking whether scaling ceramic tech will render their component obsolete.
Biggest teaching moment ▶ 12:25 Alex Cites Cycle Degradation Proof PointsAlex educates the investors with specific hard technical data, demonstrating 400 cycles with under two percent degradation and high coulombic efficiencies on lithium metal cells.
Josh holds their own ▶ 21:51 Mark Deconstructs Hardware vs Software Pilot RiskMark clearly frames the structural difference between software pilots and OEM hardware safety evaluations to explain why the risk profile exceeds his firm's mandate.
the scores for every segment, with the reasoning behind each
| Chapter | Topic | Josh as informed peer | Guest teaching | Guest disagreement | Josh pushing back | Why |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| Alex Besenval Pitches Natrion's Solid-State Tech | 1 | 5 | 1 | 0 | Alex delivers an uninterrupted opening pitch on Natrion's solid-state battery technology, explaining how their drop-in electrolyte solves EV fire hazards and range limitations. The investor panel listens quietly without interjecting or challenging him. | |
| Technical Questioning and Component Strategy | 4 | 6 | 3 | 5 | Phil presses Alex on whether a hybrid electrolyte is merely a temporary band-aid until ceramic competitors mature. Alex educates the room on component drop-in manufacturing and lithium metal energy density while firmly defending his tech's performance parity. | |
| Host Breakdown of Natrion's Technical Moat | 5 | 6 | 1 | 4 | The panel explores Natrion's $20M Series A plans and OEM evaluation milestones. Alex presents impressive lab metrics—400 cycles with under two percent degradation—prompting Mark and Jillian to offer bridge financing despite Phil and Victor passing on capital and science risk. | |
| Investors Reflect on Alex's Vision and Diligence Needs | 5 | 5 | 2 | 6 | During diligence calls, Mark and Jillian dig into IP defensibility, argon gas burn, and OEM testing phases. Mark and Jillian ultimately push back on the hardware pilot timeline and pass due to domain risk outside generalist venture capital. | |
| Founder Post-Mortem and Natrion's Future | 2 | 4 | 2 | 1 | In the debrief with Josh, Alex reflects on why generalist investors struggle with deep-tech diligence and highlights Natrion's new momentum in DoD contracts and space testing. |
Statements from this episode (15)
Besenval: Natrion's components eliminate fire risk, enabling 450-mile range and 15-minute charges
“The suite of patented battery components that we make eliminate fire risk and they can make an electric car drive as far as 450 miles on a single charge. We can charge in as little as 15 minutes.”
Besenval: Natrion is piloting with 10 automakers and cell manufacturers
“We're currently piloting with 10 automakers and cell manufacturers where they're actually evaluating our materials and battery cells.”
Besenval: Natrion seeks $20 million to build a pilot production line
“And last year we raised a two million dollar seed round. So what we want to do now is build out a pilot production line. And that's why we're raising a twenty million dollar seed round.”
Besenval: Pure ceramic solid-state battery tech will take 10 years to scale
“Probably more than several is the thing. We're talking about millions and millions of EVs as soon as twenty-thirty, right? So really we need a solution in kind of the next five years. So yeah, there are companies that have solutions that are going to be fantas…”
Besenval: Switching from graphite to lithium metal increases energy density 50%
“So when I say that we can increase range, that's because our electrolyte enables the use of lithium metal in the battery cell, so right now batteries use graphite. You switch to lithium metal, very easy to increase energy density by 50%.”
Besenval: Natrion expects to fill its first purchase orders in two years
“Where we want to be at the end of that is actually, you know, our first PO is coming in and we'd be filling those, but conceivably, you know, we'll be at a sample cells at that stage, something that you could start building EV battery packs and then getting th…”
Besenval: Natrion's battery achieved 400 cycles with under two percent degradation
“We've gone out to 400 cycles with less than two percent degradation, and we have the columbic efficiencies we need to get to a thousand”
Besenval: Mark Cuban wrote the largest check in Natrion's $2M seed round
“It was led by TechNexus. And Timurac Global, and then Mark Cuban was at their biggest ticket, and that was a convertible note. Yeah, that was twelve million”
Mark Phillips Offers $300K Investment in Natrion's Note Extension
“I would like to invest in this round, and we'd be looking to write a 300,000 dollar check.”
Jillian Manus Commits $100K to Natrion Alongside Mark Phillips
“I'm gonna take a hundred of your 300.”
Sáles-Griffin: Natrion will be priced out in its next round
“This is going to get priced out next time.”
Manus: Natrion will get acquired rather than going all the way
“I feel someone's going to buy this truthfully. I don't think it's even going to go all the way.”
Phillips: Passing on Natrion Due to OEM Safety Testing Risks
“I think from an investor perspective that creates a bit too much risk for us to want to participate in the seed round. So I think this is going to be an opportunity we'll have to pass on at this point because we're just not able to take the risk where it isn't…”