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Jun 1, 2021 · 35m · startups-for-the-rest-of-us

Episode 552 | Google Audits, Partnerships, and Freemium with Mike Taber

Mike Taber · 16m spoken Rob Walling · 16m spoken
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In this episode of Startups for the Rest of Us, Rob Walling catches up with co-host emeritus Mike Taber to analyze major strategic decisions for his SaaS business Bluetick, including rejecting lifetime deals, bypassing costly Google security audits, and evaluating partnership economics.

How this conversation actually went

Every chapter scored 0–10 on four independent dynamics. Hover any point for the reasoning behind the score. Rob holds 49.5% of the talking time here. How this is scored →

Rob as informed peer 5.0 Guest teaching 4.2 Guest disagreement 3.0 Rob pushing back 3.5
05100:0010:0020:0030:001:08–4:02 · Rob as informed peer 2/10 Catching Up, April Fools Feedback, and D&D Setup The conversation begins with lighthearted banter regarding their previous April Fools episode and Mike's Dungeons & Dragons setup in the background. Both hosts maintain a relaxed, highly collaborative tone.4:05–9:22 · Rob as informed peer 6/10 Evaluating Freemium and Rejecting AppSumo Deals Rob evaluates the economics of freemium and lifetime deals by citing Ruben Gomez's DocSketch AppSumo launch and recent TinySeed founder cases. Mike explains his decision to avoid AppSumo based on founder feedback about multi-year support burdens from non-paying users.9:22–12:21 · Rob as informed peer 5/10 Founder Frustrations With Mortgage Refinancing Mike vents about how mortgage underwriters fail to understand founder finances, miscalculating his tax returns as negative income. Rob validates his experience by sharing similar mortgage hurdles faced during Drip's early days and with TinySeed founders.12:21–16:51 · Rob as informed peer 7/10 Informal SaaS Partnership and Done-For-You Offerings Rob strongly challenges Mike for working for over a year on an informal handshake deal without equity or a formal contract. Rob breaks down productized service economics and drops a provocative hot take advising Mike to shut Bluetick down to focus entirely on the larger CRM.16:51–23:38 · Rob as informed peer 6/10 Revenue vs. Profit: Prioritizing Bluetick Over CRM Mike refutes Rob's recommendation by revealing that although the CRM makes 15x the revenue, Bluetick is actually more profitable due to massive codebase complexity and support costs in the CRM. Rob pushes back on whether Bluetick has sustainable long-term market differentiation.23:39–33:46 · Rob as informed peer 4/10 Bypassing Google's Security Audit and Exposing Price Mandates Mike explains how he bypassed Google's security audit via G Suite whitelisting and IMAP authentication, then reveals evidence that Google mandated price floors to certified audit vendors. Mike aggressively criticizes Google's anti-competitive practices, labeling them borderline racketeering.1:08–4:02 · Guest teaching 1/10 Catching Up, April Fools Feedback, and D&D Setup The conversation begins with lighthearted banter regarding their previous April Fools episode and Mike's Dungeons & Dragons setup in the background. Both hosts maintain a relaxed, highly collaborative tone.4:05–9:22 · Guest teaching 3/10 Evaluating Freemium and Rejecting AppSumo Deals Rob evaluates the economics of freemium and lifetime deals by citing Ruben Gomez's DocSketch AppSumo launch and recent TinySeed founder cases. Mike explains his decision to avoid AppSumo based on founder feedback about multi-year support burdens from non-paying users.9:22–12:21 · Guest teaching 3/10 Founder Frustrations With Mortgage Refinancing Mike vents about how mortgage underwriters fail to understand founder finances, miscalculating his tax returns as negative income. Rob validates his experience by sharing similar mortgage hurdles faced during Drip's early days and with TinySeed founders.12:21–16:51 · Guest teaching 3/10 Informal SaaS Partnership and Done-For-You Offerings Rob strongly challenges Mike for working for over a year on an informal handshake deal without equity or a formal contract. Rob breaks down productized service economics and drops a provocative hot take advising Mike to shut Bluetick down to focus entirely on the larger CRM.16:51–23:38 · Guest teaching 7/10 Revenue vs. Profit: Prioritizing Bluetick Over CRM Mike refutes Rob's recommendation by revealing that although the CRM makes 15x the revenue, Bluetick is actually more profitable due to massive codebase complexity and support costs in the CRM. Rob pushes back on whether Bluetick has sustainable long-term market differentiation.23:39–33:46 · Guest teaching 8/10 Bypassing Google's Security Audit and Exposing Price Mandates Mike explains how he bypassed Google's security audit via G Suite whitelisting and IMAP authentication, then reveals evidence that Google mandated price floors to certified audit vendors. Mike aggressively criticizes Google's anti-competitive practices, labeling them borderline racketeering.1:08–4:02 · Guest disagreement 1/10 Catching Up, April Fools Feedback, and D&D Setup The conversation begins with lighthearted banter regarding their previous April Fools episode and Mike's Dungeons & Dragons setup in the background. Both hosts maintain a relaxed, highly collaborative tone.4:05–9:22 · Guest disagreement 2/10 Evaluating Freemium and Rejecting AppSumo Deals Rob evaluates the economics of freemium and lifetime deals by citing Ruben Gomez's DocSketch AppSumo launch and recent TinySeed founder cases. Mike explains his decision to avoid AppSumo based on founder feedback about multi-year support burdens from non-paying users.9:22–12:21 · Guest disagreement 1/10 Founder Frustrations With Mortgage Refinancing Mike vents about how mortgage underwriters fail to understand founder finances, miscalculating his tax returns as negative income. Rob validates his experience by sharing similar mortgage hurdles faced during Drip's early days and with TinySeed founders.12:21–16:51 · Guest disagreement 3/10 Informal SaaS Partnership and Done-For-You Offerings Rob strongly challenges Mike for working for over a year on an informal handshake deal without equity or a formal contract. Rob breaks down productized service economics and drops a provocative hot take advising Mike to shut Bluetick down to focus entirely on the larger CRM.16:51–23:38 · Guest disagreement 5/10 Revenue vs. Profit: Prioritizing Bluetick Over CRM Mike refutes Rob's recommendation by revealing that although the CRM makes 15x the revenue, Bluetick is actually more profitable due to massive codebase complexity and support costs in the CRM. Rob pushes back on whether Bluetick has sustainable long-term market differentiation.23:39–33:46 · Guest disagreement 6/10 Bypassing Google's Security Audit and Exposing Price Mandates Mike explains how he bypassed Google's security audit via G Suite whitelisting and IMAP authentication, then reveals evidence that Google mandated price floors to certified audit vendors. Mike aggressively criticizes Google's anti-competitive practices, labeling them borderline racketeering.1:08–4:02 · Rob pushing back 1/10 Catching Up, April Fools Feedback, and D&D Setup The conversation begins with lighthearted banter regarding their previous April Fools episode and Mike's Dungeons & Dragons setup in the background. Both hosts maintain a relaxed, highly collaborative tone.4:05–9:22 · Rob pushing back 4/10 Evaluating Freemium and Rejecting AppSumo Deals Rob evaluates the economics of freemium and lifetime deals by citing Ruben Gomez's DocSketch AppSumo launch and recent TinySeed founder cases. Mike explains his decision to avoid AppSumo based on founder feedback about multi-year support burdens from non-paying users.9:22–12:21 · Rob pushing back 1/10 Founder Frustrations With Mortgage Refinancing Mike vents about how mortgage underwriters fail to understand founder finances, miscalculating his tax returns as negative income. Rob validates his experience by sharing similar mortgage hurdles faced during Drip's early days and with TinySeed founders.12:21–16:51 · Rob pushing back 7/10 Informal SaaS Partnership and Done-For-You Offerings Rob strongly challenges Mike for working for over a year on an informal handshake deal without equity or a formal contract. Rob breaks down productized service economics and drops a provocative hot take advising Mike to shut Bluetick down to focus entirely on the larger CRM.16:51–23:38 · Rob pushing back 5/10 Revenue vs. Profit: Prioritizing Bluetick Over CRM Mike refutes Rob's recommendation by revealing that although the CRM makes 15x the revenue, Bluetick is actually more profitable due to massive codebase complexity and support costs in the CRM. Rob pushes back on whether Bluetick has sustainable long-term market differentiation.23:39–33:46 · Rob pushing back 3/10 Bypassing Google's Security Audit and Exposing Price Mandates Mike explains how he bypassed Google's security audit via G Suite whitelisting and IMAP authentication, then reveals evidence that Google mandated price floors to certified audit vendors. Mike aggressively criticizes Google's anti-competitive practices, labeling them borderline racketeering.

speaking balance: gold is Rob, purple is the guest (3 minute bins)

0:00 · Rob 95% · guest 5%0:00 · Rob 95% · guest 5%3:00 · Rob 52.2% · guest 47.8%3:00 · Rob 52.2% · guest 47.8%6:00 · Rob 64.1% · guest 35.9%6:00 · Rob 64.1% · guest 35.9%9:00 · Rob 50.1% · guest 49.9%9:00 · Rob 50.1% · guest 49.9%12:00 · Rob 39.9% · guest 60.1%12:00 · Rob 39.9% · guest 60.1%15:00 · Rob 55.8% · guest 44.2%15:00 · Rob 55.8% · guest 44.2%18:00 · Rob 61.2% · guest 38.8%18:00 · Rob 61.2% · guest 38.8%21:00 · Rob 41.7% · guest 58.3%21:00 · Rob 41.7% · guest 58.3%24:00 · Rob 9.8% · guest 90.2%24:00 · Rob 9.8% · guest 90.2%27:00 · Rob 18% · guest 82%27:00 · Rob 18% · guest 82%30:00 · Rob 39.7% · guest 60.3%30:00 · Rob 39.7% · guest 60.3%33:00 · Rob 69.2% · guest 30.8%33:00 · Rob 69.2% · guest 30.8%
Sharpest disagreement ▶ 29:03 Calling out Google's audit pricing mandate as racketeering

Mike forcefully attacks Google for dictating pricing minimums to security audit firms, arguing it constitutes anti-competitive behavior and racketeering.

 Hardest push from Rob ▶ 16:20 Rob advising Mike to abandon Bluetick for the larger CRM

Rob directly rejects Mike's strategy of continuing Bluetick development, explicitly telling him he should shut Bluetick down and double down on the CRM.

 Biggest teaching moment ▶ 20:04 Mike reframing revenue vs. actual profitability

Mike counters Rob's core thesis by demonstrating that despite having a 15x lower top line, Bluetick actually generates more net profit than the bloated CRM.

 Rob holds their own ▶ 15:13 Rob analyzing productized service scaling and economics

Rob displays his SaaS strategic expertise by analyzing productized service business models, citing examples like Brian Castle's Audience Ops and Craig Hewitt's Castos.
the scores for every segment, with the reasoning behind each
ChapterTopicRob as informed peerGuest teachingGuest disagreementRob pushing backWhy
Catching Up, April Fools Feedback, and D&D Setup 2111 The conversation begins with lighthearted banter regarding their previous April Fools episode and Mike's Dungeons & Dragons setup in the background. Both hosts maintain a relaxed, highly collaborative tone.
Evaluating Freemium and Rejecting AppSumo Deals 6324 Rob evaluates the economics of freemium and lifetime deals by citing Ruben Gomez's DocSketch AppSumo launch and recent TinySeed founder cases. Mike explains his decision to avoid AppSumo based on founder feedback about multi-year support burdens from non-paying users.
Founder Frustrations With Mortgage Refinancing 5311 Mike vents about how mortgage underwriters fail to understand founder finances, miscalculating his tax returns as negative income. Rob validates his experience by sharing similar mortgage hurdles faced during Drip's early days and with TinySeed founders.
Informal SaaS Partnership and Done-For-You Offerings 7337 Rob strongly challenges Mike for working for over a year on an informal handshake deal without equity or a formal contract. Rob breaks down productized service economics and drops a provocative hot take advising Mike to shut Bluetick down to focus entirely on the larger CRM.
Revenue vs. Profit: Prioritizing Bluetick Over CRM 6755 Mike refutes Rob's recommendation by revealing that although the CRM makes 15x the revenue, Bluetick is actually more profitable due to massive codebase complexity and support costs in the CRM. Rob pushes back on whether Bluetick has sustainable long-term market differentiation.
Bypassing Google's Security Audit and Exposing Price Mandates 4863 Mike explains how he bypassed Google's security audit via G Suite whitelisting and IMAP authentication, then reveals evidence that Google mandated price floors to certified audit vendors. Mike aggressively criticizes Google's anti-competitive practices, labeling them borderline racketeering.

Statements from this episode (5)

Assertion Not checkable as stated
Taber: Founder Claims AppSumo Users Drove 80% Support Volume Years Later
“One of the founders I talked to, he's like, yeah, 80% of my support calls come from this group of AppSumo users and they're contributing zero moving forward. And this was three, four years later, he still got 80% of his support volume is from those AppSumo use…”
Mike Taber Jun 1, 2021 ▶ 6:24
Assertion Supported
Walling: Silicon Valley Bank Underwrote Founder Mortgages Using 1099 Income
“A couple founders, someone had their mortgage lender, like, back out on them, 20 minutes before their close, and he had to go to Silicon Valley Bank, because they understand founders, and that's, they know what 10 99 income is, and they know what, you know, al…”
Rob Walling Jun 1, 2021 ▶ 10:57
Assertion Not checkable as stated
Taber: Bluetick Yields More Profit Than Partner CRM Despite 15x Revenue Gap
“Your point about the revenue difference between them, and I think it is probably closer to 15 X. That is accurate, but at the same time, revenue, you know, as well as I do, revenue and profit are not the same thing. And if you're talking about profit, I think …”
Mike Taber Jun 1, 2021 ▶ 20:05
Assertion Not checkable as stated
Taber: Google Mandated Minimum Price Floors For Third-Party Developer Security Audits
“The other piece, when I was talking to the three different companies, one of them basically let slip that Google came to them and said, you are required to charge at least this much money. And apparently they get copies of the invoices, which to me seems like …”
Mike Taber Jun 1, 2021 ▶ 27:24
Disclosure
Taber: Google Security Audit Cost $10K+, Vendor Doubled Quote Next Year
“I blew five plus figures easy getting this stupid audit done, and it, you know, murdered my profitability, and then they doubled the price the following year, and I'm like, you know, forget it. I'm just not going to bother.”
Mike Taber Jun 1, 2021 ▶ 30:35
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