Jun 4, 2025 · 35m · sourcery
Nucleus Launches First Genetically Optimized Embryo · Sourcery with Molly O'Shea
0:00 / 0:00
▶ Watch on YouTube →
gold bands on the timeline = statements, start to end. Hover to read, click to jump. CC turns on captions
On this episode of the Sourcery podcast, host Molly O'Shea interviews Kian Sadeghi, founder and CEO of Nucleus, regarding the launch of Nucleus Embryo—a software platform enabling parents to perform genetic risk analysis and trait predictions on IVF embryos. They explore the mechanics of embryonic polygenic screening, the ethics and public perceptions surrounding genetic selection, macro trends in reproductive technology, and Sadeghi's long-term vision for preventative generational healthcare.
How this conversation actually went
Every chapter scored 0–10 on four independent dynamics. Hover any point for the reasoning behind the score. Molly holds 18.5% of the talking time here. How this is scored →
Molly as informed peer 3.4 Guest teaching 5.1 Guest disagreement 1.5 Molly pushing back 1.3
speaking balance: gold is Molly, purple is the guest (3 minute bins)
Sharpest disagreement ▶ 14:35 Bugatti vs horse carriages
Kian forcefully rejects market skepticism stemming from 23andMe's decline, asserting that legacy firms failed because they were horse carriages while his product is a Bugatti.
Hardest push from Molly ▶ 20:00 Designer baby bounds pushbackMolly challenges the extent of genetic tailoring by asking if parents can engineer high-profile archetype traits like an Elon Musk or Kylie Jenner baby.
Biggest teaching moment ▶ 2:15 Clinic testing vs full-genome analysisKian details the standard clinical IVF testing workflow and systematically explains why screening only for chromosomal abnormalities and rare monogenic conditions overlooks polygenic chronic diseases.
Molly holds their own ▶ 27:45 Socioeconomic divide questioningMolly poses a direct question on the second-order ethical and economic consequences of genetic optimization widening inequality between income classes.
the scores for every segment, with the reasoning behind each
| Chapter | Topic | Molly as informed peer | Guest teaching | Guest disagreement | Molly pushing back | Why |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| How Genetic Optimization Software Works for Embryos | 3 | 6 | 1 | 1 | Molly prompts Kian to explain the core mechanics of embryo genetic optimization software and asks why this technology is possible now versus five years ago. Kian educates her on how clinic testing currently stops at chromosomal abnormalities and monogenic diseases, explaining how Nucleus creates a unified reproductive genetic stack. | |
| Macro Fertility Trends and Collapsing Costs of DNA Sequencing | 4 | 5 | 0 | 0 | Molly contextualizes the discussion around macro fertility shifts and asks for supporting data. Kian details falling whole-genome sequencing costs and rising IVF adoption rates without any conversational friction. | |
| Addressing Genetic Disease Prevention and Public Perception of IQ Selection | 3 | 5 | 2 | 1 | Kian cites polling data about public openness to IQ optimization and rejects medical paternalism, arguing doctors unfairly gatekeep genetic data. Molly maintains a neutral stance, asking open-ended questions about consumer perception and education. | |
| Patient Empowerment vs. Medical Gatekeeping and the Genomic Prediction Partnership | 3 | 7 | 3 | 0 | Kian strongly dismisses conventional criticisms of DTC genetics, comparing failed predecessors like 23andMe to horse carriages while calling his platform a Bugatti. He walks Molly through the Genomic Prediction partnership workflow and his own background in DIY gene editing. | |
| Accuracy of Polygenic Risk Models and Limits of Embryo Selection | 3 | 6 | 2 | 2 | Molly asks whether parents can engineer specific traits like an 'Elon Musk baby'. Kian clarifies the limits of polygenic selection, explaining that embryo selection only yields relative optimization bounded by parental genetics. | |
| Differentiating Nucleus from Clinics and Navigating Ethical Controversies | 4 | 6 | 2 | 2 | Molly presses on controversies surrounding designer babies and how critics view trait selection. Kian articulates an individual-choice defense, arguing that random embryo selection is flawed and sunlight is the best disinfectant for emerging reproductive technologies. | |
| Sponsor Segment: Fourthwall Creator Platform | 3 | 4 | 1 | 2 | Molly raises the socioeconomic question of whether genetic optimization will widen class inequality. Kian counters that technology naturally follows a path toward mass ubiquity and cost reduction, sharing personal motivations for the startup. | |
| Kalshi Prediction Markets: AI Competition, DeepSeek, and Apple WWDC | 4 | 2 | 1 | 2 | Molly walks through rapid-fire Kalshi prediction market questions covering AI model rankings, DeepSeek bans, and Apple's WWDC roadmap. The dynamic is lighthearted and conversational, with Molly sharing market odds against Kian's speculative guesses. |
Statements from this episode (15)
Nucleus software analyzes embryo DNA to predict IQ, cancer risk, and traits
“So usually parents have a couple viable embryos, and now they can actually take the raw DNA files of them, upload to Nucleus, and we'll give you analysis on everything from cancers, to IQ, to eye color, to hair color, to schizophrenia risk.”
Sadeghi: Nucleus is the first company to optimize embryos for IQ
“This is the first time a company has partnered with a couple who have optimized their embryos on the basis of intelligence.”
Sadeghi: Standard IVF clinics ignore polygenic traits and common diseases
“These are conditions that, generally speaking, are just simply not tested in the clinic today. So let's say you're a couple doing IVF. The first thing that's very well accepted in the IVF context is making sure your child doesn't have any chromosomal abnormali…”
Sadeghi: Nucleus plans to expand into post-birth genetic testing for babies
“And so you see this testing from preconception to conception, and now even after birth, we're going to be exploring as well.”
Sadeghi: One in 50 babies born today are conceived via IVF
“I mean, I think the statistic is that one in 50 babies today are born via IVF.”
Sadeghi: Falling IVF and sequencing costs will create genetically optimized children
“And so you're going to see the rapid decrease in cost of IVF combined with the rapid decrease in cost of sequencing A genome. These things are going to converge together to enable this just, this massive, massive new generation of parents having genetically op…”
Sadeghi: Study shows over 50% of people accept genetic optimization for IQ
“There was actually a really good study that was done asking couples about genetic optimization, which is, you know, what's their perspective on it. And in the study, it said over 50% of people said genetic optimization for something like IQ is fine. And then I…”
Sadeghi: Patients, not doctors, should use genetic data to select embryos
“We believe that every piece of information from cancer to IQ to schizophrenia belongs very thoughtfully in the hands of the patient, and the patient is the one, not the doctor, that the patient is the one that should pick their embryo.”
Sadeghi: Whole-genome testing will unify ancestry, clinical screening, and IVF platforms
“Because fundamentally, through the rise of the whole genome test, you can actually combine every single one of these applications. You can combine, you know, kind of ancestry, Natera, Myriad, IVF genetic testing companies, PGX companies, all into one roof, int…”
Sadeghi: Future reproductive genomics platforms will both sequence and edit DNA
“Because eventually, you're not just going to be sequencing and analyzing DNA, You'll also probably be editing it as well.”
Sadeghi: Embryo selection can only shift IQ by a few points
“Embryo selection will always be a relative optimization, right? IQ can explain a couple IQ points, right? Height, you can, you know, explain a couple inches, but principally if you, the most important kind of the ingredients for your embryos comes from mom and…”
Sadeghi: Embryo selection can dramatically reduce Alzheimer's and cancer risks
“You can still dramatically reduce the baby's risk, for example, for something like Alzheimer's, Which is then strongly associated with longevity or breast cancer or coronary artery disease, which are the top killers in the United States today.”
Sadeghi: The medical distinction between genetic diseases and traits is arbitrary
“From our perspective as a company, there's really no difference between diseases and traits. It's a false line in the sand that was drawn.”
Sadeghi: Genome analysis technology will be as transformative as AI
“I think genetic testing technology and analysis technology, genome technology, if you will, It's going to be as powerful as artificial intelligence. Artificial intelligence is ultimately a tool, and it's a tool that's going to, I think, be most consequential i…”
Sadeghi: Genomic sequencing, analysis, and editing will create a trillion-dollar industry
“And when you think about the next 10 years, you know, as I alluded to earlier, sequencing technology is kind of cheaper, analysis is kind of cheaper, understand the genome is going to dramatically increase, and genome editing is going to become much cheaper. A…”