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Oct 5, 2025 · 53m · sourcery

CEOs of Epirus & Galvanick on the Future of Defense & Cybersecurity · Sourcery with Molly O'Shea

Joshua Steinman · 22m spoken Andy Lowery · 18m spoken Molly O'Shea · 7m spoken
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In this episode of Sourcery, host Molly O'Shea interviews defense tech executives Andy Lowery (CEO of Epirus) and Joshua Steinman (Co-Founder of Galvanick) about next-generation directed energy systems, operational technology cybersecurity, and American defense industrial strategy.

How this conversation actually went

Every chapter scored 0–10 on four independent dynamics. Hover any point for the reasoning behind the score. Molly holds 15% of the talking time here. How this is scored →

Molly as informed peer 2.0 Guest teaching 5.5 Guest disagreement 1.0 Molly pushing back 0.5
05100:0015:0030:0045:001:24–7:49 · Molly as informed peer 1/10 Andy Lowery on Epirus Origins & Physical Cyber Warfare Molly opens the interview with basic scene-setting questions about Epirus. Andy Lowery gives an extensive masterclass explaining gallium nitride phased arrays, traditional defense primes versus neoprimes, and the emergence of physical cyber as the sixth domain of warfare.7:49–14:04 · Molly as informed peer 2/10 Sponsor Segment: Brex Financial Stack for Startups Following an ad read for Brex, Molly asks how Epirus executes a one-to-many defense and builds product generations. Lowery explains how commercial chips enable low-cost drone proliferation and contrasts Raytheon's waterfall engineering with rapid prototype cycles.14:04–22:58 · Molly as informed peer 2/10 Sponsor Segment: Turing Intelligence Enterprise AI Molly prompts Lowery on reindustrialization and the domestic manufacturing talent shortage. Lowery provides granular detail on how the US lost high-volume amplifier and board assembly capacity overseas since the early 2000s.22:58–53:20 · Molly as informed peer 3/10 Sponsor Segment: Carta Private Capital & Fund Administration Molly interviews Joshua Steinman on his White House tenure, Galvanick, and OT cybersecurity vulnerabilities before moving into Kalshi rapid-fire questions. Steinman educates on industrial control hacking and explains why blanket government security clearances for AI researchers are legally impractical.1:24–7:49 · Guest teaching 6/10 Andy Lowery on Epirus Origins & Physical Cyber Warfare Molly opens the interview with basic scene-setting questions about Epirus. Andy Lowery gives an extensive masterclass explaining gallium nitride phased arrays, traditional defense primes versus neoprimes, and the emergence of physical cyber as the sixth domain of warfare.7:49–14:04 · Guest teaching 5/10 Sponsor Segment: Brex Financial Stack for Startups Following an ad read for Brex, Molly asks how Epirus executes a one-to-many defense and builds product generations. Lowery explains how commercial chips enable low-cost drone proliferation and contrasts Raytheon's waterfall engineering with rapid prototype cycles.14:04–22:58 · Guest teaching 5/10 Sponsor Segment: Turing Intelligence Enterprise AI Molly prompts Lowery on reindustrialization and the domestic manufacturing talent shortage. Lowery provides granular detail on how the US lost high-volume amplifier and board assembly capacity overseas since the early 2000s.22:58–53:20 · Guest teaching 6/10 Sponsor Segment: Carta Private Capital & Fund Administration Molly interviews Joshua Steinman on his White House tenure, Galvanick, and OT cybersecurity vulnerabilities before moving into Kalshi rapid-fire questions. Steinman educates on industrial control hacking and explains why blanket government security clearances for AI researchers are legally impractical.1:24–7:49 · Guest disagreement 1/10 Andy Lowery on Epirus Origins & Physical Cyber Warfare Molly opens the interview with basic scene-setting questions about Epirus. Andy Lowery gives an extensive masterclass explaining gallium nitride phased arrays, traditional defense primes versus neoprimes, and the emergence of physical cyber as the sixth domain of warfare.7:49–14:04 · Guest disagreement 0/10 Sponsor Segment: Brex Financial Stack for Startups Following an ad read for Brex, Molly asks how Epirus executes a one-to-many defense and builds product generations. Lowery explains how commercial chips enable low-cost drone proliferation and contrasts Raytheon's waterfall engineering with rapid prototype cycles.14:04–22:58 · Guest disagreement 1/10 Sponsor Segment: Turing Intelligence Enterprise AI Molly prompts Lowery on reindustrialization and the domestic manufacturing talent shortage. Lowery provides granular detail on how the US lost high-volume amplifier and board assembly capacity overseas since the early 2000s.22:58–53:20 · Guest disagreement 2/10 Sponsor Segment: Carta Private Capital & Fund Administration Molly interviews Joshua Steinman on his White House tenure, Galvanick, and OT cybersecurity vulnerabilities before moving into Kalshi rapid-fire questions. Steinman educates on industrial control hacking and explains why blanket government security clearances for AI researchers are legally impractical.1:24–7:49 · Molly pushing back 0/10 Andy Lowery on Epirus Origins & Physical Cyber Warfare Molly opens the interview with basic scene-setting questions about Epirus. Andy Lowery gives an extensive masterclass explaining gallium nitride phased arrays, traditional defense primes versus neoprimes, and the emergence of physical cyber as the sixth domain of warfare.7:49–14:04 · Molly pushing back 0/10 Sponsor Segment: Brex Financial Stack for Startups Following an ad read for Brex, Molly asks how Epirus executes a one-to-many defense and builds product generations. Lowery explains how commercial chips enable low-cost drone proliferation and contrasts Raytheon's waterfall engineering with rapid prototype cycles.14:04–22:58 · Molly pushing back 0/10 Sponsor Segment: Turing Intelligence Enterprise AI Molly prompts Lowery on reindustrialization and the domestic manufacturing talent shortage. Lowery provides granular detail on how the US lost high-volume amplifier and board assembly capacity overseas since the early 2000s.22:58–53:20 · Molly pushing back 2/10 Sponsor Segment: Carta Private Capital & Fund Administration Molly interviews Joshua Steinman on his White House tenure, Galvanick, and OT cybersecurity vulnerabilities before moving into Kalshi rapid-fire questions. Steinman educates on industrial control hacking and explains why blanket government security clearances for AI researchers are legally impractical.

speaking balance: gold is Molly, purple is the guest (3 minute bins)

0:00 · Molly 12.7% · guest 87.3%0:00 · Molly 12.7% · guest 87.3%3:00 · Molly 0% · guest 100%3:00 · Molly 0% · guest 100%6:00 · Molly 39.1% · guest 60.9%6:00 · Molly 39.1% · guest 60.9%9:00 · Molly 5.2% · guest 94.8%9:00 · Molly 5.2% · guest 94.8%12:00 · Molly 21% · guest 79%12:00 · Molly 21% · guest 79%15:00 · Molly 6% · guest 94%15:00 · Molly 6% · guest 94%18:00 · Molly 7.4% · guest 92.6%18:00 · Molly 7.4% · guest 92.6%21:00 · Molly 37.1% · guest 62.9%21:00 · Molly 37.1% · guest 62.9%24:00 · Molly 5.6% · guest 94.4%24:00 · Molly 5.6% · guest 94.4%27:00 · Molly 5.8% · guest 94.2%27:00 · Molly 5.8% · guest 94.2%30:00 · Molly 22% · guest 78%30:00 · Molly 22% · guest 78%33:00 · Molly 4.4% · guest 95.6%33:00 · Molly 4.4% · guest 95.6%36:00 · Molly 4.5% · guest 95.5%36:00 · Molly 4.5% · guest 95.5%39:00 · Molly 8.3% · guest 91.7%39:00 · Molly 8.3% · guest 91.7%42:00 · Molly 12.6% · guest 87.4%42:00 · Molly 12.6% · guest 87.4%45:00 · Molly 14.1% · guest 85.9%45:00 · Molly 14.1% · guest 85.9%48:00 · Molly 29.8% · guest 70.2%48:00 · Molly 29.8% · guest 70.2%51:00 · Molly 38.8% · guest 61.2%51:00 · Molly 38.8% · guest 61.2%
Sharpest disagreement ▶ 51:40 Steinman rejects premise on universal AI clearances

Steinman directly dismisses the realistic likelihood of mandating security clearances for private AI employees, rating the Kalshi prediction market odds as effectively zero.

 Hardest push from Molly ▶ 51:46 Molly challenges dismissal of AI clearances

Molly counters Steinman's skepticism by pointing out high-profile AI talent movement and suggesting mandated clearances should be an obvious national security step.

 Biggest teaching moment ▶ 33:40 Steinman contrasts IT vs OT infrastructure vulnerability

Steinman illustrates the stark lack of operational technology defense using the example of hackers remotely spilling molten metal across Iranian steel mills to demonstrate real-world physical risk.

 Molly holds their own ▶ 51:46 Molly presses Steinman using Kalshi prediction odds

Molly leverages real-time Kalshi market data and ongoing AI talent wars to prompt Steinman to detail the specific administrative mechanics of security clearance grants.
the scores for every segment, with the reasoning behind each
ChapterTopicMolly as informed peerGuest teachingGuest disagreementMolly pushing backWhy
Andy Lowery on Epirus Origins & Physical Cyber Warfare 1610 Molly opens the interview with basic scene-setting questions about Epirus. Andy Lowery gives an extensive masterclass explaining gallium nitride phased arrays, traditional defense primes versus neoprimes, and the emergence of physical cyber as the sixth domain of warfare.
Sponsor Segment: Brex Financial Stack for Startups 2500 Following an ad read for Brex, Molly asks how Epirus executes a one-to-many defense and builds product generations. Lowery explains how commercial chips enable low-cost drone proliferation and contrasts Raytheon's waterfall engineering with rapid prototype cycles.
Sponsor Segment: Turing Intelligence Enterprise AI 2510 Molly prompts Lowery on reindustrialization and the domestic manufacturing talent shortage. Lowery provides granular detail on how the US lost high-volume amplifier and board assembly capacity overseas since the early 2000s.
Sponsor Segment: Carta Private Capital & Fund Administration 3622 Molly interviews Joshua Steinman on his White House tenure, Galvanick, and OT cybersecurity vulnerabilities before moving into Kalshi rapid-fire questions. Steinman educates on industrial control hacking and explains why blanket government security clearances for AI researchers are legally impractical.

Statements from this episode (11)

Opinion
Lowery: Anduril is pursuing a 'me too' strategy against China's manufacturing
“There's an element, one, of folks doing me too, like Andrew's very me too to China. They said, we're going to go toe to toe. We're going to manufacturing in volume. We're going to build computers. We're going to build drones. We're going to build everything th…”
Andy Lowery Oct 5, 2025 ▶ 5:42
Assertion Partly supported
Lowery: US produces 50,000 drones annually compared to China's 60 million
“China's building, I've heard, sixty million drones per year is not outside of the question of China being able to do, but, ah, and US maybe 50,000 drones in a year. So there's a huge disparity there.”
Andy Lowery Oct 5, 2025 ▶ 5:58
Insight
Lowery: Traditional one-to-one air defense cannot scale against mass drone swarms
“Until they overwhelm your defenses, overwhelm your ability to protect, and the traditional way of protecting, one effector, one threat, OODA loop, that isn't going to work. It does not scale with this sort of six-domain threat.”
Andy Lowery Oct 5, 2025 ▶ 10:56
Assertion Supported
Lowery: The US military is forced to buy foreign-made computers
“The microprocessors, the computers, you cannot buy an American made computer. You have to go overseas. You have to go to China and military doesn't want to buy A foreign made computer, but there isn't any option, so they have to do by exception”
Andy Lowery Oct 5, 2025 ▶ 16:28
Assertion Contradicted
Lowery: US high-volume amplifier manufacturing died after the early 2000s telecom boom
“We haven't built that kind of volume of amplifiers in the United States anyways since the early 2000 when we were doing the base stations and all of the towers were going up for our cell phones everywhere and you had Nortel networks and all of that. That was r…”
Andy Lowery Oct 5, 2025 ▶ 17:44
Assertion Not checkable as stated
Steinman: Almost no industrial facilities worldwide have basic cybersecurity protection
“Most data moves over industrial networks unencrypted. Most industrial equipment simply receives any instruction sent to it with the proper protocol and just starts executing it. And so this is a huge problem. There's no security on industrial facilities on alm…”
Joshua Steinman Oct 5, 2025 ▶ 34:19
Assertion Not checkable as stated
Steinman: White House study found under 10,000 Americans work in industrial cybersecurity
“In fact, when I was at the White House, I chartered a study. You have like researchers that work for you there. And we found less than 10,000 Americans that do that.”
Joshua Steinman Oct 5, 2025 ▶ 36:59
Insight
Steinman: The easiest way to defeat a weapon is on the factory floor
“The easiest way to defeat a weapon system is on the factory floor. And so the defense industrial base is where the fight is happening right now.”
Joshua Steinman Oct 5, 2025 ▶ 39:24
Assertion Supported
Steinman: Chinese cyber actors are pre-positioned inside US critical infrastructure
“There are reports to Congress, open testimony by directors of national intelligence that the Chinese and the Russians and the Iranians and the North Koreans, but especially the Chinese, have been prolific in their efforts in the cyber domain to essentially pre…”
Joshua Steinman Oct 5, 2025 ▶ 40:55
Prediction Not checkable as stated
Steinman: AI will cause a Cambrian explosion in software vulnerability discovery
“So what it really means is one, the discovery of vulnerabilities in systems is very likely Going to experience this like Cambrian explosion, as people say, right? What took a single person or a group of people, you know, a lot of time, a lot of energy to try a…”
Joshua Steinman Oct 5, 2025 ▶ 48:18
Prediction Held up
Steinman: The US will not mandate security clearances for AI engineers
“I think they should. I don't think they will. It's just really hard, right? Like you're gonna go to a private company and say these people have to have clearances.”
Joshua Steinman Oct 5, 2025 ▶ 51:35
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