The Exchanges

Q Yeah, like, I would love to, I would love to hang out with you. And for women, or for men, it was, like, You know, five percent or something like dominated. It was like a winner's take all market. What's that data behind that?

A Yeah, so one stat I can tell you is that a lot of women set their height filter at six feet or taller, and only 14% of the men in the U.S. are six feet or taller. So you have women coming up to me at dinner parties holding up their phones saying, I'm on Hinge. Where's my husband? Where is he? And I'm like, yeah, he can't even get into your app because he's five nine and you're filtering him out. It's like your app is a bounce, your app is a club, and your filters are a bouncer filtering him out. And so I do think that apps have perpetuated this thing where Because you can set filters, which maybe you think about for 30 seconds, you're like, yeah, six feet is good, and then you don't even realize the implications of that, and then when you multiply that across millions of people who are using apps, then yes, a disproportionate amount of attention goes to these guys over six feet, and then the other guys are sitting there waiting to hear back from someone.

AI assessment note: “one stat I can tell you is that a lot of women set their height filter”

Q Like if I just committed after listening to this and I was like, all right, I'm going to go level up in those. Is there like a killer book that you would recommend or like a way to actually develop that skill? Like what, what would be the fast track way to develop some of these skills besides the obvious, which is get practice?

A Yeah. So we talked about the idea of effort and that effort goes a long way and remember things, follow up with things. Women really love that. Develop your relational skills. So one thing that I'm really passionate about is men's groups. And I'm very curious to hear what you both think about this. And as I was preparing for this episode, I was like, oh, I kind of feel like maybe they'll feel like it's cringy, but I just feel like men's groups are so powerful. So a year ago, my husband joined one, our good friend, David Clavin started it. And it's about six men. They meet once a month. They go around, and they each silently write down on Post-it notes what's top of mind for them. Then they go around, and whoever has kind of the things that are most present for them and really wants to take up space, they let those people talk. They give them feedback, and it's really a great place for men to be angry, for men to be sad, for men to create this council of peers, and then they hold each other accountable. And I've seen so much growth in my husband, so much growth in the other guys in this group, and I think it's better than therapy, because most therapists are female, so having your wife or having your female therapist tell you what to do, I think that's fine, but having a council of peers who can really relate to you and create a safe space for you to be angry and sad, I think th…

AI assessment note: “So one thing that I'm really passionate about is men's groups.”

Q background, and that's just, like, what you're taught. And for some reason, I think that you're happier that way, where you're like, If I'm miserable, it's just like, yeah, that's fine. I'm going to be miserable, and hopefully I'll make it better. Versus like, well, I wonder, are there other options? Uh, there's something about Finality or like no other choice that I think makes me happier. Is there anything?

A Yeah, there is a lot of research on that. So when you compare love marriages versus arranged marriages, love marriages usually start off happier, but around the five year mark, arranged marriages are happier. And it's exactly what you said, Sam. It's the fact that you're committed and you're in it and you don't consider failure as an option. Okay. So my husband's working too much and I feel stressed out and I miss him. I'm going to commit to working out this thing with him versus giving up. And there are nuances to the data, and it depends on whether or not the culture allows for divorce and things like that. But I think the point is that when you think about things as temporary, you just don't commit to them as much. So I was at, oh, actually that dialogue conference, and this guy was like, I think that, um, marriages should be like cell phone contracts, and every seven years you decide to recommit or not, and there should be a conversation. And I was like, That's a cute thing to say, but that's not what the research supports, because if you have an apartment versus owning a home, are you going to put wallpaper on the wall? Are you going to get a new dishwasher? No, you're going to be like, this is temporary. I have one foot out the door, but when you own your home and when you're really committed, you invest a lot in it because you think about it as a forever investment, and …

AI assessment note: “Yeah, there is a lot of research on that. So when you compare love marriages”

Q wife in a real life setting. It just, and even back then when this was less common, but still common, it just seems so much easier to meet people by just kind of pretending that you're confident. And, like, even just say, like, like, just saying hi to them. Like, it just, it was so much easier that way. Can we just, shouldn't we just teach guys to do that?

A I think this is a big issue in modern dating. Almost everyone I talk to is like, I want to meet someone the old-fashioned way. I'm romantic. I don't want to meet someone on the app. But then if you ask them if they're meeting people in real life, they basically say no. And last summer there was like, the run clubs. Everyone's meeting at run clubs. Like, I haven't met a single couple that met through the run club. So I think we're having this issue with Gen Z where they don't necessarily want to be on apps. They want to be meeting people in real life, but they don't have The social skills to do it. And so there's this huge problem with the younger daters that I talked to where they lack rejection resilience. So, you know, this goes down a whole pathway of parenting, but, you know, they had these helicopter parents, they had these snowplow parents that kind of plowed the way for them, and they never had to deal with issues. They had colleges that bended to every will, and if their dog had an ear infection, they didn't have to turn in a paper. You have these, um, workplaces where they can take a sick day, you know, for any random reason, and then You want that person to go up to someone at a coffee shop, be able to deal with rejection. Like, they don't have the skills to do that. And so, yes, if everyone listened to this, got really good at approaching women and making them feel b…

AI assessment note: “yes, if everyone listened to this, got really good at approaching women... That would be great”

Q that people have, especially the further you are away from doing the work yourself, that if you're talking about this, that means you need to be like fully self-actualized in some way. And so do you feel pressure in that? And like, I guess like, I guess like what's your, I don't know, when did you, when did you get married? How did that go for you? I'm just curious.

A Sure. Yeah. So I will quote one of my mentors here. So Eli Finkel is one of the best relationship scientists in the country, and he's at Northwestern. And the dedication in his book is to my wife, Alison, who thinks it's hilarious that I'm a marriage expert. And so I kind of, I kind of feel the same way, but what I will say is basically the thing that fascinates me the most, the thing that I feel like I always want to work on is the decision-making process of who do you marry. So I actually feel like I'm more of a dating expert than a marriage So sometimes when people ask me about sex, I'm like, I don't know shit about sex. I'm not a sex expert. What I'm actually really good at is who you should be with and why, and so I don't feel as much pressure as someone who's putting out there a book about marriage, but I would say, like, of course I have my own issues, and of course there's moments where I'm like, oh, my husband's pretty introverted. My life would be easier if he wanted to go to this party with me, and then I just remind myself, like, here's all the things that are great about him, and I also say to myself, here's all the annoying things that are Annoying about me, and by kind of, like, nagging myself, it also helps me be more understanding of my husband. One last thing I'll say about that is that I think having a kid has changed our relationship so much more, so much fo…

AI assessment note: “so I don't feel as much pressure as someone who's putting out there a book”