The Exchanges

Q And so what happened? You get the call that this is going down and I mean, just tell, I mean, what was that like? Tell me, tell me about it.

A So we didn't get the call. We, we became aware of it and we just went, which is a, a really, a philosophy that I live by, which is called run to trouble. It's, it's amazingly liberating if your philosophy is to run to trouble. And so we ran into trouble. We showed up, uh, uh, since it's a bank, FBI and NYPD are showing up. Uh, the negotiation teams on both sides knew each other really well. We had a great relationship. We had a bank robbery task force in New York at the time. So the PD and the bureau already aligned on the criminal prosecution. So the two negotiations teams blended, and, uh, the first hostage negotiator on our phone was a, was a PD detective. I was his coach. The PD commander was in charge of the negotiation operations center on the inside. The Bureau's lead negotiator, our coordinator at the time, went to the outside in the event any, um, voice-to-voice bullhorn stuff was needed. We negotiated for a number of hours. Uh, the commander, uh, decided, um, to sort of disrupt the dynamic a little bit. It was stalemated at a very low threat level. And so we pulled the PD negotiator and he put me on the phone with the bad guys. And I had one of the, uh, one of the bank robbers out about 90 minutes later.

AI assessment note: “So we didn't get the call. We, we became aware of it and we just went”

Q is that if I had more perfect information, we can, we can make a better deal. That might be mutually beneficial if we were willing to trust each other. Uh, what are the simple ways to build that trust when you do meet with the other side and they're naturally inst initially gonna not, not just be super willing to trust you. What are the simple ways to build trust?

A Well, the, the simplest way to build trust and gather information simultaneously. It is nothing anybody's ever learned. Okay. So basically what they're, you're saying here is number one, I got to build trust. Number two, I got to get the information. So number one, build trust. Common ground. Let's find out what we have in common. Did you play little league baseball growing up? Uh, did your kids, you know, you're married. What are your kids doing? You know, how many times you've been married? You know, this whole common ground thing. Because they felt so good when they shared it, they didn't realize that they were squashing the other side. So there's, there's, that's one of the worst ways to build trust. Um, and then gathering information. You're taught to gather information by asking good questions. Well, questioning somebody makes them feel cornered. Which then diminishes trust because nobody trusts you if you cornered them or interrogated them. So the, the counterintuitive answer is the, you know, the hostage negotiator's tried and true tool called, in hostage negotiation, it was a motion label. Uh, in business negotiation, it's just a label. And I, I can start triggering information out of you right away if I sit down and I'll take a sense of you. And I said this to a colleague recently I hadn't seen in months. I looked at him instead of saying, hi, how are you? How are you…

AI assessment note: “the hostage negotiator's tried and true tool called... a label.”

Q this was my best option to go with. It was 98% their blend and two percent mine. Um, and in other situations where I have leverage or create leverage or I, Apply leverage. You know, I tend to feel like I do better, but is that a, is that too simplistic? Like where, how do you think about the word leverage? Cause for me, that's always been key in negotiation.

A It's not simplistic. It's a step up from, uh, floundering entirely to, you know, and it's going to sound harsh. I mean, you get yourself to B level negotiator there. You'll never get, you'll never get yourself to A, A plus on leverage. Cause leverage is the ability to inflict harm. And if you're making deals based on the ability to inflict harm, these, these are not, those, those don't go for stable long-term relationships. They don't go for the other side, sharing information with you that'll, that'll change everything because if you've got leverage, you're a threat. And why would they give you important information if you're a threat and vice versa? How much leverage do they have on you? Holy shit. I can't give them, I can't tell them that they'll have more leverage.

AI assessment note: “It's not simplistic... You'll never get yourself to A, A plus on leverage.”

Q Do you have a sense of what she does or how, how she accomplishes that?

A You know, the interesting thing is it's very similar to what we did in the Chase Manhattan bank, because I was talking about a woman, talking with a woman in Los Angeles several years ago to work for Oprah, and I'm laying all this out. And I said, the last impression is the lasting impression. Uh, we did it, uh, the Lieutenant did it by instinct at the Chase Bank. I found out later on from, uh, I was at a Gallup poll conference on human nature, you know, the Gallup poll, the long time collectors of polling data, of course, they're sitting on decades of human performance information. And this one speaker stands up and says, people don't remember things, how they happened. They remember, and they don't remember how it started. They remember the most intense moment and how it ended. The last impression is the lasting impression. So I'm laying this on my colleague who worked for Oprah and she says, oh yeah, Oprah's lived by that all of her whole life. She says in, in the entertainment business, the joke is in a limo out in a taxi, as soon as they get what they want from you, you know, you're out hitching out front, finding your own way out. But at Oprah, it was in a limo, out in a limo. And the philosophy was no matter what happened on any interaction, no matter what, you had to make sure they felt respected, heard, appreciated, and loved at the very end. And I've had several conve…

AI assessment note: “no matter what, you had to make sure they felt respected, heard, appreciated”

Q uh, how does Chris Voss, you know, buy a car? How do you do it in just day to day, everyday situations? Have you had any, uh, any, uh, implementation of any of your techniques that on like the low stakes stuff, we've seen the hustle negotiation, but like, what do you do when you're on Craigslist? Do you need a couch or you're, you know, you're at the market?

A Yeah, well, you know, I, I tell the other side, um, why, what they are selling. Is worth what they're asking. You know, I make their case cause that's what they're going to say to me. So what I've done is I've just now left them with nothing to say. And then like, see, I can, I can, I can, I can pound you down on price. I mean, I, I, and I still, if I choose to be, I can be, I can really pound you down, but I better never need to come back to you for anything. And there are a few deals that are complete one-offs. So if I'm buying a car, depending upon who I'm buying it from, I will tell you, I do not have great regard for car dealerships across the board. I no longer ever get any vehicle I own serviced at a car dealership. I don't care what the warranty says because I don't trust them. So I don't mind pounding down a car dealer.

AI assessment note: “I tell the other side, um, why, what they are selling. Is worth what they're asking.”

Q small part of that. That just seems like how to win friends and influence people. That seems like, you know, it should be relationship, you know, the foundation of any kind of communication or relationship. So Is it that negotiation fundamentally is just connecting with other people? Is it that, or is it that these skills apply to other domains? I mean, what's the right way to think about that?

A Well, yeah, it's across the board. I mean, and first of all, negotiation, if your objective is to have a long-term relationship of trust where we both prosper. Now, if you're a complete sociopath, that should be your objective. Because it's low maintenance, it's the least amount of effort, and it's the maximum amount of money. I'm gonna make, I'm, you know, I, I get a number of people, I get one of our top level coaching clients said, I have made so much more money being collaborative than I ever made being cutthroat. Your relationships, you make deals faster, your relationships flow more smoothly. That should be your goal. Like you, you, if you're the most mercenary person in the world, and the only thing you care about is making money, then that's the fastest, easiest way to make the money. But not, that's not everybody's definition. Most people think of it as win, lose, you know, battle of arguments. I'm going to get the upper hand on you. I'm going to, I'm going to have you over a barrel. I'm going to, I'm going to, I'm going to force you to do what I want. You know, the people of power negotiations, if you will. That, that puts you out of business. You lose, you lose friends, you lose collaborators, you lose colleagues.

AI assessment note: “Well, yeah, it's across the board. I mean, and first of all, negotiation”