The Exchanges

Q So when you had misses, how did you go back and extract the signal from that? Because there's so many variables going on between like how you market it, the time that it comes out, other movies that are coming out, the way that it's produced, the script, the, like, how do you go back and pull out the, like, this is the most probable cause of this failure?

A Yeah, I, I think, so there, there's a couple of things. Um, first is, was there a fundamental rejection of the concept? Um, you know, we, we did a, another movie that, that did not connect, uh, was a movie called Black Hat, that Michael Mann, who's one of the all-time great directors, Chris Hemsworth starred in, I mean, all these elements. And people just didn't want to see a movie about hacking and that being the action step, right? Is that we're watching Chris Hemsworth, you know, hack. Um, and so I think in some cases you look at it and say, you know, the fundamental concept of the movie was rejected. And those, I think on some Continuum hurt the most because you're like, wow, that just.

AI assessment note: “first is, was there a fundamental rejection of the concept?”

Q I want to talk to you about the NFL. At what point did you buy part of the Steelers? Were you still with Legendary or was that post-Legendary?

A Yeah, no, it, it was. So my first year in the ownership group was 2008, uh, in which we, we won the Super Bowl this, that year, which is amazing. Um, and you know, growing up, uh, right on the Pennsylvania border in upstate New York, I just, the first football game I ever saw was the Steelers in the Super Bowl. And I just, I mean, the steel curtain, the whole thing, it was just amazing. And what, what had happened is, um, um, the, the Steelers had asked to see an, um, a print of We Are Marshall, a movie that we did with Matthew McConaughey. And so, when they asked to see it, I was like, I'll go. I'll, I'll take it. And so, I came to Pittsburgh and, um, had the opportunity to spend real time with, with Mr. Dan Rooney, and we just hit it off right away. I think he was probably amused by how passionate I was and how much I knew about the Steelers and, you know, and, uh, you know, we, we, we lost Mr. Rooney and, I think it's two years ago now. Um, but of all the people that I've gotten to meet and spend real time with, I mean, he is Was just a remarkable man. And so, you know, to, to be part of the ownership group and your, you know, your sort of team that you've loved and followed since you were a kid is surreal to say the least.

AI assessment note: “my first year in the ownership group was 2008”

Q What makes the difference between somebody who comes out and say like the first round, he's got all of the physical traits that you would look for and raw talent. Like what makes the difference between success or failure in the NFL where everybody's talented and that delta between talent probably matters a little bit. Is that the most important thing? Like what separates people?

A You know, it's, it's interesting. Um, I think part of it, And this is across business, across any, any walk of life, but I think particularly in the NFL, that grittiness, right? Your, you know, your, your ability to overcome things and to be comfortable being uncomfortable. Um, you know, I look at somebody like Antonio Brown, um, Who was a fourth round pick coming out of Central Michigan, and, you know, I remember having a conversation with him at the end of his rookie year, and he just kept asking me, like, how do I get, what, what else can I do? And I, I just hooked him up with a nutritionist, this guy named Chris Talley, uh, who's, uh, you know, one of the best nutritionists in the country, and not only did he go and follow through, but has become, you You know, like religious about what, what he puts into his body in terms of food and then trains harder than everybody else and, and just, you know, never takes a rep off. I watch him in practice and I'm like, well, that's why he's the best in the world because.

AI assessment note: “I think particularly in the NFL, that grittiness, right?”

Q What example comes to mind when you think of that?

A Well, I'll tell you, when, when I had Legendary, uh, you know, and you're making movies. A hundred percent. I look back at some of my biggest mistakes were movies that you put together, for example, that you got the director you wanted, you got a release date, you got the cast, but the script isn't coming together. For whatever reason, you just kind of feel it, that it's, it's just not there. But because you've worked so hard, and now there are a bunch of people that are counting on it, and And there's a momentum to it, and the, you know, all the, the agencies, everybody involved in the ecosystem now is a stakeholder, and you just kinda, it's, it's, it's tough to put the brakes on. So I, I think about that often. That whole business is one of the more nuanced, uh, businesses I've, I've ever been around or involved in.

AI assessment note: “when I had Legendary, uh, you know, and you're making movies”

Q Was there a point where you realized that your family was different from other families?

A Uh, yeah. I, I think also when I went away to college, it became a little more pronounced, um, just in terms of, okay, this is the outside world. And, um, and I think that, uh, you know, there was certainly a period that I got very frustrated and felt, you know, how unfair and all those other things that I guess when you're processing things as a teenager, your neurons aren't Firing the way they should, or, um, but, uh, you know, but my mom worked, uh, two jobs. She was a dental hygienist, and I did a lot of, uh, shoveling snow, had that business, had a lawn mowing business, running around at 13, doing that kind of stuff, and, you know, to try to help out, and, and you just kind of realize, uh, at a fairly young age, that there are things you don't want to do. You'd rather be doing other things, but, You know, the task at hand is the task at hand.

AI assessment note: “when I went away to college, it became a little more pronounced”

Q Like, how do you determine, I guess is a better way to phrase this, like, you're giving somebody a check, it's enough money for them to retire. How do you align the incentives after that point?

A Well, in a lot of cases, um, well, there's a couple things. We, we like it when the management team still has enough skin in the game that it's not, hey, we just bought your company, you don't own any shares anymore, and you're just getting a paycheck and running out the clock. That, that's not a great situation. So what we like to do is situations that we can partner with companies, buy them, or large majority, or, or, you know, a large stake, you know, buying out previous investors or, or shareholders if there are any, certainly allowing them, uh, to take some money off the table where appropriate, but then providing growth capital for the company, uh, Um, so that's why, you know, I don't think we're going to end up with 40 companies, uh, because it's, each, each case is pretty unique, and you want to make sure that you can, you can check those boxes.

AI assessment note: “We like it when the management team still has enough skin in the game”

Q After that, like opportunities, Did you go into college thinking there would be one set of opportunities in life and come out thinking another?

A Yeah, the plan, uh, was always, I was definitely gonna go to law school, and then I had a family friend talk to me and say, look, it's not like it is in LA law, and you know, you're gonna come out, ah, in debt, there's no more sports scholarships and things like that for, for law school, and so, um, you know, I, but I'm always fascinated by people that, whether they're practicing attorneys or they have a law degree as part of their educational background, I actually think it's a pretty great set of skills to have, uh, and some of the most interesting people, people whose thought process and how they process things, you know, are attorneys and so, but yeah, definitely went a different direction.

AI assessment note: “Yeah, the plan, uh, was always, I was definitely gonna go to law school”

Q So let's go back to Legendary for a second. You ended up, why did you end up selling? And what year was that?

A It would be three years ago this March. So yeah, two, 2016. Um, well, I think, I think a couple of things, you know, I, I, Had been in the business for long enough that it was, you know, I think it was time for me personally to, to, to think about something else. Um, and look at the end of the day, you know, my principal job was to make sure that I delivered for our shareholders. And, you know, fortunately that happened in this case. And, um, We had, uh, you know, the opportunity to not only, uh, be bought by a company, this is Wanda, a big company in China, but with some of the expansion and some of the opportunity in China as a growth business, you know, it was maybe the right, the right partner and direction to take. Um, so, you know, and, and some of the lessons learned, uh, Or, um, you know, the things that got me interested, like I mentioned Legendary Analytics, that sort of experience led me to Tolco, which is my, you know, the holding company that I have now and what we're up to.

AI assessment note: “2016. Um, well, I think, I think a couple of things”

Q Can you give me an example of what you're doing?

A Uh, so there's a, there's a company, one of the companies that we own is called Figs, and it was, uh, started by these two brilliant women, um, and they basically, um, reinvented the medical wear, the scrub, and, and other sort of clothing adjacent to that, and You know, anti-microbial, anti-stained, did all these innovative things, made it fashionable and breathable, and so when I first started to get to know the company, When I would talk to doctors and nurses and people in the medical space, they were passionate about it, and they had a huge cult following. And then what we talked about is, you know, building an online and mobile platform in which you're selling directly to healthcare professionals. And they have, you know, were just named by Inc. Magazine as one of the fastest growing companies and most innovative, and they're just doing, you know, a remarkable job. And, you know, part of our job is to, you know, partner with people like this who have deep domain expertise to provide the capital and the technical wherewithal to help them, you know, really propel themselves for, uh, forward and, um, You know, so it's, it's going, it's going really well, and it's a different set of challenges, and I, you know, I really enjoy it because every day you're kind of looking at new businesses and new markets and saying, you know, how can we kind of employ what we've learned or techn…

AI assessment note: “one of the companies that we own is called Figs”

Q What do you think those shifts will be, and like, who wins in the next 1015 years?

A Well, I mean, you know, I have to, the job that Disney has done, um, Is unbelievable. I mean, they, I think under Bob Iger's leadership, and then Alan Horn, who was my partner at Warner Brothers before he went over to Disney, I mean, they went out and cornered the market between Pixar, Marvel, and Star Wars with, with Lucasfilms, and have now, you know, you look at their calendar of releases, and it's basically everybody has to move around Disney. So I think you're still gonna see the big event films worldwide, um, you know, move the needle and, and be as big as they've ever been. Uh, it's just how many movies for, for theatrical release are gonna come out? What's the appropriate number? And, you know, how can you market them in a way that, uh, you know, is, is more efficient, which is something that we, I got fascinated with, with, uh, and why we, Had an analytics division.

AI assessment note: “everybody has to move around Disney. So I think you're still gonna see the big event films”

Q How hands-on were you? Like assembling a great team is one thing, but were you in there active and like, oh no, we should do this, or this would be more exciting, or are you more hands-off?

A Um, it depended on the circumstance. Um, there were times very, very hands-on, you know, throughout an entire project moving. Certainly And then, you know, you're making a movie with Steven, with Steven Spielberg, or you're making a movie with Chris Nolan, you just make sure you get their catering right. Um, so, you know, you have to know, too, when to just stay out, right? And, and let amazing people do their job. I, I think, uh, one of the things I used to spend a lot of time on at Legendary was on culture, right? Um, and I've always kind of felt like great culture will trump a great business plan every day of the week because you can have an amazing business plan and I guarantee that it'll morph and change and you're going to have to, you know, you're going to have to make sometimes big changes, but if you have a culture that Uh, that people are excited about working there and, you know, you, you have the right mindset, then making those changes in that journey is going to be a lot easier. And, um, you know, so spent a lot of time, you know, making sure that people were passionate about working there, doing everything we could, um, You know, to be inclusive and, and to try to be transparent about what, what we are up to, I would certainly get up in front of the whole company and explain, look, these are the three things that we're really focused on right now, and this is wha…

AI assessment note: “it depended on the circumstance. Um, there were times very, very hands-on”

Q So what does the analytics look like inside of an NFL team now? Do you know, like, What your offensive coordinator is prone to call in certain situations of a game, and is that information available in real time on the sidelines? Because it seems like there's like an anti-technology bent on the sidelines.

A Well, I wouldn't say, I wouldn't say there's anti-technology. Just the problem in game, um, things are happening so fast. I mean, you can certainly make halftime adjustments and other, and other things, but, um, I, I think it's, More in how you prepared. And, you know, one of the things to me is that if we're able to self-scout and pick up your tendencies, well, then probably means that the other teams can as well. And, and it's just, um, You know, I, I think because there's much more information available now, even down to, you know, how fast exactly the guys are running on field. So when you say, huh, I wonder if their, their corner, everybody's saying has lost a step or has a hamstring. Well,

AI assessment note: “I wouldn't say there's anti-technology. Just the problem in game, things are happening so fast”

Q Like, it's so easy to say that, and I'm wondering, like, what is your process?

A It's much, much harder in practice. I think the first thing is, for me, I always look at mistakes that I've made and try to do, uh, true post-mortems. And if you're constantly giving yourself an out, like, well, Yes, I probably didn't make a great decision here, but these three circumstances, or these, these, these things happened, and therefore, and what I try to look for is, okay, there are certain times the ball just doesn't bounce your way, and, you know, and, and you can't dwell too much on that, but where are the things that I find a common thread in, hey, you know, you're, you're ending up in the same place here, And is it, are you philosophically wrong? Are you not taking in the right information? Are you being emotional about this? Are you surrounding yourself, uh, with, with the right people for whatever the, you know, the, the job is, so to speak. And if I find, geez, I keep finding myself back in this spot or, you know, that, you If it's, I've put myself in a position to succeed or, or, or fail, you know, do I look at it and say, it's, it's almost, you know, sports is a big part of my life. So, you know, if you're in the World Series, and it's the bottom of the ninth inning, and you're a relief pitcher, and you throw 98 miles an hour, don't get beat on your curveball.

AI assessment note: “I always look at mistakes that I've made and try to do, uh, true post-mortems.”

Q What does it mean to be in the human business? Like, what does that tangibly mean from, like, how you organize things, from how you run things, to how you think about problems, how you...

A Well, I think the first, the first thing that I think about, especially in something that's as physically demanding... Is the NFL is how do you check the box on everything you can in terms of comfort and performance and saying, look, want to provide an atmosphere in which you, um, have all the tools at your disposal to, to be successful. And then also one of the things I can't speak about other teams because obviously I, you know, have only been inside the Steelers organization, um, But I've been told by a lot of players who left and came back or left, and then you see them in retirement, that, that the Steelers really are different. Um, it truly is a family-like atmosphere, and that certainly starts with the Roonies, you know, and, um, we try very hard to, to take care of our, our guys, and, you know, I've seen a lot of examples of that that certainly are never going to Nor, nor should they make the press and so forth. And I, and I just think that, um, When, when you have athletes that are under such tremendous pressure and under the spotlight like never before. I mean, when you talk to the guys that played back in the seventies, there was no social media. There weren't camera phones. There weren't. So the, you know, the scrutiny and, and the opportunity to make mistakes and whatever is, uh, you know, is, is more certainly than it's ever been. And, um, You know, and I, and I t…

AI assessment note: “want to provide an atmosphere in which you, um, have all the tools”

Q Is that the future of sports? And are those, um, algorithms or sort of insights proprietary now more than they used to be?

A Yeah, I, I think so. And I think that, um, it really is a blend of art and science though, because, uh, you know, you, you still have to be able to think about, uh, How, again, human beings are going to function and leverage situations, and you're going to have to, you know, I, I think the highest and best outcomes are where you use the information and the technology to, But you're able to interpret it and apply it instead of just saying to inform your decision. That's exactly right. And, and I think, I mean, certainly you look at baseball, it has become an arms race. And for the teams a number of years ago that rejected it and say, we're not doing that. Well, you know, it's tough to be playing in October when, when you don't have the right amount of information. And certainly baseball, uh, is easier, uh, Uh, to apply analytics because you have a lot of one-on-one matchups.

AI assessment note: “Yeah, I, I think so. And I think that, um, it really is a blend”

Q So you had these ideas coming in in 2008, what an NFL team looks like from the inside. Where were they different? How did that line up and not line up?

A Well, the, the interesting, um, parallel between being a legendary and then in professional football is you, you are squarely in the human being business, right? So you're around incredibly talented people. You're around people that are well compensated and come from all different walks of life and maybe motivated in different ways. And I think, um, I think the human element sort of behind the curtain is fascinating because you, you see people, uh, athletes that come into the NFL that are incredibly talented, right? There is no question they have the physical makeup, um, um, And you look at success or failure in, in some people that come in and aren't as talented, but for some reason, the light comes off, their professionalism, their ability to improve themselves, understand the game, whatever it is, and, and, uh, have impact. And then there are other people that you just sit there and you're like, my goodness, you know, you, you have, you You're fast. You're strong. You have all the ability in the world, but you're not connecting the dots, and when the lights come on in the game, you're, you're not your highest and best.

AI assessment note: “I think the human element sort of behind the curtain is fascinating”