The Exchanges

Q So you find a good book. What does it look like when you read that? Like, can we geek out a little bit on your, like, do you read it cover to cover? Are you, uh, making an index in the book itself?

A Well, I, I hope people are interested in this, because to me it seems like a rather boring process, but what I do is, um, It's all very simple. I've had a system pretty much since the 48 laws of power. I've kind of refined it, but it's pretty much the same. I read the book, uh, fairly carefully. I'm not, if it's a bad book, I skim like hell, but if it's a good book, I, I, I dig, and I read carefully, and as I'm reading it, I make little notes in the margins to come back to this section. It's a great book, like, practically every paragraph is marked up, but I try not to do that. And then, um, I go through the whole book, and then I later, maybe a couple weeks later, I go back to the book and put it onto note cards. So I start from the beginning on the pages where I've made little notes, and I create themes. Now, in this new book, I have 18 themes, 18 chapters. It started out more, but that's what it is now, and so at the top of the card, I'll write envy, or grandiosity, or You know, whatever the chapter is. And I'll, and I'll take little notes so that each book I'm able to make me to kind of categorize by theme, break each book down into these themes. And if a book yields like nine cards on one theme, well, that's a lot. And maybe that like could be a main story in the chapter. And so then I have, and I end up with thousands of note cards, which is, you know, I can, I've had peo…

AI assessment note: “I go back to the book and put it onto note cards.”

Q What does exercise look like other than swimming? Do you do lift weights? Do you run? Do you?

A No, I never lived. I've never lifted a weight in my life. Um, so it's every three days I swim and that's like a mile and a half. Um, and I don't stop. So it's very aerobic. Uh, the other thing used to be, uh, mountain biking, because I live near some very nice trails, but I've had a couple of accidents, uh, broke a foot, broke a elbow, um, and, um, and it's also very tiring, and I, I found that swimming and mountain biking was, was just making me too wiped out, so I, for the year now, I've cut out the mountain biking, so I don't have another accident, um, So I've been, I take hikes, which are safer. Can't kill myself. Um, and they're very, you know, pretty rigorous hikes. And then the third day, um, is a kind of a yoga Pilates type routine that, uh, I've developed because I do a lot of sitting as I'm riding and the body needs stretching. Uh, I wish I could run. I used to run track when I was in high school. Um, but it, I, I, it was hurting me. Um, I have like back issues. I think I'm going to get back into running because I've, I've fixed my back. I can say one thing. I don't, this is not, this is still interesting to people, but I've had a lot of problems on this new book, physical ailments. And one of them was my back just went out and, um, I was like, I couldn't even stand up for a couple of days. And, uh, I just was determined that this was never going to happen to me again…

AI assessment note: “I've never lifted a weight in my life. Um, so it's every three days”

Q I don't know, is it like a yoga routine that you're doing before, or?

A It's like 20 minutes of, yeah, some basic, uh, stretches of every problem area of the back, the psoas, muscle, the sacrum, the, uh, pariformis. And, um, my chiropractor said you have to do each pose thing for 40 seconds in order to have a benefit, so I make sure that I do them each like a minute long down dog, an insanely intense down dog. And, uh, I can feel the stretch, but it's more like every day, every day, every day that, um, you know, it's not completely gone, but it's gone to such an extent that I finally feel like I can start running again. And that's kind of how I approach some of the other, uh, I have a physical problem. I'm not going to let it stop me. I'm just going to work my way through it.

AI assessment note: “It's like 20 minutes of, yeah, some basic, uh, stretches”

Q How did you go about reflecting on that, though, to becoming less emotional? Like, it's not a switch. You just flip, right?

A Well, sometimes, you know, as you get older, that's, it's easier. You're, you calm down. Some of it's not good. Some of it's, like, you kind of Dry up, and you're not as affected by things. That's not a good thing, but, so you try not to have that happen, but, you know, as you get older, you get more perspective, hopefully. Um, the meditation has helped me an awful lot in controlling my emotional responses. 90% of the meditating, I do a practice, a form of Zen meditation, and what you're doing is, it's hard to concept to relate, but the idea is, You're thinking of your thinking as if you're a spectator of yourself. You're looking at yourself, and you're going, you know, this is my mind, and how it's, has these anxieties and these obsessional thoughts, and you're looking at it as if you're another person. Can't explain it any other way, but it's really an interesting thing to go through, and so you end up having distance from yourself, and you end up seeing that you're kind of a programmed person to respond to certain ways, and with that distance, You find it easier to not react. So with the meditating, I made it, it's much been much easier for me to not react to situations and to kind of hang back and go, wow, that's, that's just life. That's just what things are. Let me wait and see how, what, what plays out. So the meditating is, has helped a lot. Getting older has helped a l…

AI assessment note: “meditation has helped me an awful lot in controlling my emotional responses.”

Q It's probably hard to pick a favorite law, but what would, what would you think is the most applicable law for people to learn?

A It, it, it's an impossible, I'm sorry, I mean, I don't mean to, to, uh, quibble with you, but it's an impossible question to answer. And so the answer then, because it's an impossible question to answer, the answer is law 48, and that paradox means law 48 is assume formlessness, and that means all 47 laws are, can be kind of nonsense, and you should just ignore them, and you should just be in the moment and not go into situations thinking of, oh, I better do law 41 You be, you must be alive to the circumstance. You must be formless. You must be willing to throw out the 48 laws. You need to be alive to the moment, and you need to be flexible and adapt to every situation and every circumstance. It's a very important law, but the idea is, um, everyone's different, you know. So for me, I work at home, and I, I have, I work for myself. So the law that's important for me Isn't going to be the same law for someone who's in an office job, um, you know, kind of stuck sort of in the middle zone and is trying to break out, or someone who's a CEO of a company with 500 people. Everything depends on where you are right now. And the drama of your life as it stands. So it's important to plan all the way to the end, wherever you are and have a plan. Yeah, I could, I could say that there are maybe a dozen laws that kind of transcend that and that are key, like learn to keep people dependent on y…

AI assessment note: “the answer is law 48, and that paradox means law 48 is assume formlessness”

Q In writing that book, what changed after? Like, what, how did you conduct your life differently after writing that book and learning about power?

A I, you know, it wasn't like a dramatic change. Of course, you know, I, I was a little bit older, uh, when it came out. I mean, by the time it came out, I was actually quite older, 39 years old. So, you know, it was, I really wasn't, I had no success prior to that. I mean, I worked in Hollywood in various areas. I made a good living, but I was not successful. I was not happy. So the, the big radical change was suddenly I, I, I had attention and I had success and that was, Actually very helpful, uh, for my self-esteem and for where I was, uh, you know, and for my parents who were beginning to really get worried about me. Um, but the change as far as other things was subtle and it took time. Um, you know, I, I, I began to consult, uh, very powerful people in music and politics and business began to seek me out for advice. Um, I started, Talking to them, meeting them, actually working as a consultant, and it was an eye-opener to see, um, to see my laws reflected through their world, um, and to see kind of the harsh environments that a lot of people live in, and, you know, I mean, the one I can talk about, obviously, is 50 Cent, because I wrote a book with him. The others, I try and not disclose who they are, you know, and so he's obviously lived through an environment that's a lot harsher than what I've So it was very exciting, and it kind of enriched my knowledge of the power game…

AI assessment note: “in the long run, it has altered me. It's made me a little more sophisticated.”

Q Lot of 29 is plan all the way to the end. Uh, you say the ending is everything. What does that mean?

A Um, it's, well, it's basically that you're not thinking far enough ahead. Uh, you're locked in the moment. Um, very human thing. It's actually one of the chapters in the human nature book about how short sightedness and how we're always reacting to what people are giving us. I call it in one of my blogs, I call it tactical hell. You're locked in tactical hell. You're never able to rise above to the level of strategy. You're always just reacting to what people give you. So you can never plan anything. You can never really be strategic, which requires that you think at least, at least two moves in advance. So plan all the way to the end is a way to force you to think further ahead. Now, if you think I've got this plan, uh, to get rid of a rival business or to outdo this opponent, Alright, in one year, I'm going to get to this point. I'm going to destroy them in sales. Um, and I'm going to get market share, et cetera. All right. How do I get there? Okay. I'm going to get that word in a year. How do I get there? Okay. All right. Now I've got a plan. Now that's power because if you keep reacting to what your opponent is giving you in this rivalry to get market share, uh, you're never, your mind never rises high enough above the battlefield to come up with a reasonable plan that actually, um, Um, is more strategic and involves things that aren't just reactions to what your arrival gi…

AI assessment note: “plan all the way to the end is a way to force you to think further ahead.”

Q What other examples come to mind that are like great biographies or great books?

A Well, um, you know, I'm, I'm having to think of, uh, of the research that I've just been doing, so, um, one of the chapters, I, uh, I really made an attempt to have more stories about women in this book, because you can't write a book about human nature if it's all white men, so, um, I, I have a, one of the main, one of the figures is Coco Chanel, who's a great Business woman, and it's an amazing story. It sounded, you may hear her name go, well, I don't want to read about that, but it's an amazing story of a woman who was basically an orphan, and who just clawed her way to the top, and it's, she's very admirable in her clawing to the top, um, and a great biography of her. I can't remember, something like Mademoiselle Coco, I don't remember the name, but And this woman who wrote the biography, what I loved about it was very ambitious, and she's, you know, Coco Chanel ended up, um, being kind of a Nazi sympathizer. It's the main black mark on her story, a very large black mark. And the woman writer speculates about the fusion, the intersection of fascism, fashion and fascism. I mean, that was great. I loved it. You know, be a little bit wild like that. Um, I, Martin Luther King is a character that I cover, and there's a great biography of him. I kind of, the names are scaring me, like Garen, Garen, something like that. Um, 800 page biography of him and of the Southern Leadership…

AI assessment note: “there's this book biography of this woman, Katerina Sforza... a great biography called Tigress”

Q What do you think gives it such longevity?

A Well, it's hard, you know, it's, it's better for readers to, to weigh in on that. But if I were to speculate, uh, I designed the book, uh, to be timeless. Um, I, you know, I looked at a lot of history, um, I kind of mined all cultures, um, and all periods of history to sort of give it a feel like, um, I've uncovered something very real about power, and so it's not timely. Um, I'm sure, you know, in a hundred years, it'll start looking a little bit timely as people, you know, have some distance, and it definitely reflects the period, the history that we're going through now. I don't doubt that, but I made it, I tried to make it, um, as classic as possible, and the thing about it is, is, and I tell people a lot, because there's a lesson in this, you know, I had an idea about power, Machiavelli, mostly because a lot of the books out there that talk about power in this world, I feel like really unrealistic. They're very wary of the truth. And the truth is, as I discovered in all my different jobs, is that people are, are, can be very manipulative. They don't show it. It's all a sort of this hidden language that goes on. And the books don't really expose it in, in, in, in any way that's practical or that's real. And I felt like there was personally, I felt a real hunger and anger and anger was why are people so skittish to talk about what really happens in offices and in politics an…

AI assessment note: “I designed the book, uh, to be timeless.”

Q How do you prevent other people from, uh, I mean, you're, you're a much sought after in demand author, speaker, strategist. How do you prevent other people from dictating how you spend your time?

A Well, you gotta be a bit of a, uh, a tyrant. Um, You know, you have to know how to say no. Um, and it's not easy. Um, at a certain point, I really want to finish the book. I feel confident. I really want it out there. I want people reading it. And every distraction is just like, get away from me. I don't have the time. I get kind of grumpy, uh, and cranky, and I just don't want anything to disrupt me because I've got, I've built up momentum. But it's not easy because you get, it gets lonely. It means there's no, there's no interviews really going on except for you and a couple other people. You're hiding out from the world. You feel kind of like, ah, nobody thinks about me anymore. Ego things that aren't so great, but everybody goes through. So it's not easy. Um, and I'll be very happy when it's over, um, in a few months and I'll feel like I've been cooped up in a cabin and I'll finally be let out and I'll, I'll shave my beard. That's, I don't really have a beard, but it's the equivalent of a long beard, but it's, you know, you have to, uh, you have to, Cut out all of the distractions, um, or the, or the process won't work for me. Because as I said, and as I've disclosed in mastery, the way the human brain works is your best ideas come to you when you're not thinking about them. You know, uh, if you're, if you're, um, sitting there always doing other things and chatting with pe…

AI assessment note: “you gotta be a bit of a, uh, a tyrant. Um, You know, you have to know how to say no.”

Q What, what's the, um, what would you say is the biggest mistake you've ever made, and how would you recover from that?

A Well, um, You know, I've, I've made several mistakes, um, in my life, but then, You know, Ryan wrote a great book called The Obstacles, The Way, um, and I've written about similar subjects in the 50th law and in other books of Amor Fati, which is basically embracing your fate and not looking at life as if you actually have made a mistake. Well, you have made a mistake and you have to learn from it, but there was a reason behind it. So mistakes are good. Failure is good if you're able to kind of glean a lesson from it. So You know, when I was working in, um, journalism in New York when I was in my twenties, Um, there was a, that's not really a mistake. The mistake for me was that I chose the wrong profession. I wasn't really suited for it, and it cost me several years of my most creative period, and I got out. That's not, like, a huge mistake. And then a similar thing, uh, you know, with Hollywood. Um, I can't really think of, like, an egregious kind of A huge mistake that ruined my life. I can think of 20 little mistakes, you know, like, um, law number one of the book is never outshine the master, and I probably violated that law maybe three or four times prior to writing the book, uh, where I'd be the researcher on a television show, um, and I was so good at it that everybody hated me. Um, I was like, you know, I, I was the only one that came up with the right kinds of stories…

AI assessment note: “I can't really think of, like, an egregious kind of A huge mistake”

Q productive people, uh, I see from the outside kind of looking in. I think you've written, don't get me, uh, I think five or six kind of classic books that will all kind of live on for a prolonged period of time and, you know, a very short period of time. How do you do that? Like what sort of routines and habits do you use to propel that forward?

A Well, you know, actually I take a long time to write a book. I mean, by the end of it, this book six was my sixth book was going to be nearly four years, which is a little too much, but, um, so I'm not fast, but I'm very thorough. Um, and I've described it before in, in several blogs, which I haven't done in a while, but I, when I was writing about the process and mastery in writing the book is that they're very physically demanding. Um, In that, um, I'm going through very, you know, I'm thinking about it night and day. And if you've ever done mental labor like that, it's more tiring than physical labor.

AI assessment note: “actually I take a long time to write a book. I mean, by the”