The Exchanges

Q What other technology tools do you have internally, um, to aid in decision making or give people feedback?

A Uh, we have a number, we have a dispute resolver. Ok, so if there's a dispute, you sort of push this button, and it's an app, And it takes you through the paths of resolving that dispute, and it breaks down disputes in terms of types of dispute. If it's just you and somebody arguing, then it will, it will say, um, it'll make suggestions. Um, for example, you both mutually agree on who a moderator for that dispute would be. Right. A moderator or judge, and so on. So there's one level of dispute. Then there's another level of dispute, which is like a case, but it is a It's a created pathway to resolve a dispute, like a legal system, so that if you have now a dispute with your neighbor because something happened, you have a pathway to follow, so we've created a tool called a dispute resolver that does that. We have, oh, just, we have a thing called people profiles that show profiles of different people. We have a thing called a meeting tracker. So it's the, it's a computerized version of watching what's going on and then synthesizing the whole picture of what everybody's thinking so that anybody can look into that meeting and, and see everybody's participating in it through other people's eyes. Um, there's a tool that we help people go from pain to progress. Um, you know, I, as I mentioned in the book, um, I have an expression. Pain plus reflection equals progress. So we have a th…

AI assessment note: “we have a dispute resolver... We have a thing called a meeting tracker.”

Q What does that include? Like, what does that look like?

A Well, when everybody comes in, there's a, we would call a boot camp, and that'll, um, go for two to three weeks. That gives them an immersion into, um, what the culture's like. It might go three weeks if they're in the management boot camp, and then they start to get, uh, skills, and then they go into their job, which is an apprenticeship kind of relationship, and then, um, they get, um, Well, typically about three hours of training pertaining to, um, the development of those skills, and they go through experiences, and we collect data on them, they look at the data, and we then recalibrate how, um, they learn, and, and then it's an evolutionary process as they grow, um, We learn more about them. They learn more about themselves. We find out where they're better suited. We go through a series of experiences that continues that to happen until they continue, you know, to evolve wherever they evolve to.

AI assessment note: “there's a, we would call a boot camp, and that'll, um, go for two to three weeks”

Q How do you go back and correct if you're wrong?

A Well, same thing. You know, you experience, okay, I'm wrong. So this is pain plus reflection equals progress. So you look at, um, experiencing the pain, okay. Now calm yourself down and say, okay, what would I have done differently? And again, I, what I do like to do is look at all the cases in which that thing happened before. What happened differently? To gain the perspective of the cause-effect relationships, and you do that. You love your mistakes. I mean, love the, you don't love the outcomes of your mistakes, of course, but you realize that the connection is a feedback loop, you know, so that you get that mistake, meaning that you have to then learn. As I say, you know, there are five steps to success. Okay, first, your goals. You want to have audacious goals. You have to know what the goals are. Second, on your way to your goals, you're gonna have your problems, your mistakes, ok? Ok, so you have to identify and not tolerate your problems. Then, third, you have to diagnose your problems to get at the root cause. Ok, root cause may be your weaknesses, or somebody else's weaknesses, or maybe the mistakes, you gotta diagnose them deeply. So once you have the diagnosis, then you have a fourth step, which is design what you're going to do differently in the future. And then once you have that design, then the fifth step is you got to do it. You have to follow through with tho…

AI assessment note: “diagnose your problems to get at the root cause... design what you're going to do differently”

Q Buffett said, uh, one of the things that he kind of worries about is keeping the, the culture, uh, Brookshire Hathaway when he, he passes. Is that something that worries you at Bridgewater?

A No, no, it's, I would, I would say it's like a, it's like a family in the next generation, right? It's now up to others to make that choice, to not be attached. So if I have my kids who then become grown adults, I want them to make the choices that they want to make. Now, I hope that they will make the healthy choices. And did we, you know, did we raise them well? Did they, you know, in other words, to make those choices, but they need to have their own experiences and have that kind of independence. So at that age, you, you let go and you enjoy them doing it their own way. Even in the, even you can't start at that age. You have to start at another, at an early age that they can make their decisions. So I don't have an attachment to that. What I did have, most importantly, was my sense of, um, do I pass it along clearly and well? That's what, in other words, my writing that book relieved me of what my responsibility is. What others do with it is up to them.

AI assessment note: “No, no, it's, I would say it's like a family in the next generation”

Q Would you say that's almost a continuum that you're constantly sliding on depending on the type of decision you're making and the people that are in the room, maybe based on the believability of their opinions? You should shift more towards an open mind versus if not, or am I thinking about that in the wrong way?

A Um, I think what you're, what you're saying is absolutely true. I think the big question is, do you have A whole lot of both open-mindedness and curiosity when you're entering that. I could say whatever meeting I'm in with whoever I'm on, and, and whether they're the least experienced, um, I know that's a valuable exchange. And the reason I know that that's a valuable exchange, whether I'm at the highest level of expertise with the person, in other words, they're a peer at the highest or maybe knows a lot more than I, um, it's still going to be a valuable exchange. Um, and knowing that is, is valuable. And the reason I'm saying it's a valuable exchange is first of all, in a community, um, respecting the fact that that person has the right to understand is important. At the same time, I think it's important for the parties to try to think, um, am I a teacher, student, or peer? Because if I'm speaking with somebody who really knows a lot more about them, something, I want to be asking more questions than I want to be sharing opinions.

AI assessment note: “I think what you're, what you're saying is absolutely true.”

Q Yeah. Are people, um, the same outside of Bridgewater as they are in the company? Like if you have a social gathering, is it a similar?

A It's, it's, it's almost identical. Um, it's almost identical. I mean, like you, you're going to want it. Now, uh, of course the, the ground rules are different, you know, and the way you navigate it is different because people around you are different. They may misunderstand what you're doing in terms of being straightforward, but even there, um, you know, it depends on, like, how you're doing it. Like, if you're phrasing, um, let's say a complaint, um, if I go to a restaurant, and I don't know, the food isn't good, and I actually, or I have a problem with that, I think to myself almost in an ethical way, and if the owner comes by and he asks me, it almost is like an ethical question that one wrestles with. And I, if I was going to make a comment, I would have to preface that comment by saying something like, um, I'm trying to be helpful, you know, here is what a thing, here's what my thought is, take it or leave it. You know, that kind of thing. Um, but even more in their personal relationships. It, it affects friendships. Um, you know, how you are with each other. You know, the two things that I, I think, the only two things I require in a relationship are people to be reasonable, in other words, able to reason, and to be considerate. And I will give People an enormous amount of that, and I expect an enormous amount of that. And that's, that's in all relationships. And I woul…

AI assessment note: “It's, it's, it's almost identical.”

Q To what extent do you think is leadership innate versus it can be learned?

A Um, I think it's probably almost entirely can be learned. Of course, in terms of the development of the brain and how, uh, synapses develop and so on, you, the early years has a very big influence on a lot of our personal development. That's physiologically, psychologically, uh, you know, known. Um, but I think that there's always, um, a leadership style That can be learned. In other words, there's your way of doing it. I've given personality, um, tests to, um, well, I mentioned that in, in the book, Bill Gates, Elon Musk, um, many, many, uh, incredible, successful people, and they all have some elements in common, and then they also have differences, and so there's, there's a path to leadership. There are some people who are the charismatic, extroverted leader, and, They find one path. There's the person who's introverted and thoughtful, and they can find another path. I think the key is, um, still in both cases, um, this combination of, um, do you know where you're leading to, and how do you get that, and then how do you interact with the people so that you can bring them along, and you can make them, um, Believe or grow so that they can also help leading. Leading is a lot, um, the development of leaders, so that they, you know, in order to lead effectively, what you have to make is a group of people who can be effective themselves, because that's what's going to produce the …

AI assessment note: “I think it's probably almost entirely can be learned.”

Q Who were your biggest influences over maybe the seventies and eighties, kind of?

A Um, well, I think, I think if you take the sixties and the seventies, and then you get into the eighties, uh, what affected me was it was an era of, um, aspirational, ideological, ideological is probably, ideals. So you have to understand, let's say, um, John Kennedy, if you start off, was a man who believed that we were going to conquer outer space, eliminate poverty, and produce equal rights. And so, um, he was a very charismatic figure. And all through my life, there were, um, people who were, um, inspirational, um, I will call them shapers. They will visualize the future. It was an era when the United States was the most powerful country in the world. Still is, of course, but in a way different. We counted for 40% of the world's economy. Um, we had, we were dominant in, in almost any respect, and the reaching for the stars, literally, was all part of that aspirational, that greater thing, and so when you take that, and then, um, we went into an era of that creative rebelliousness, and I would say that I admired, um, um, uh, Steve Jobs, Martin Luther King, um, Uh, those people who were, uh, uh, rising above and, and, and having that. People who I would consider to be highly principled people. Um, and also, um, so then, you know, there were just, uh, so many of those types of people at the, at the time.

AI assessment note: “I admired, um, um, uh, Steve Jobs, Martin Luther King”

Q What advice would you have for somebody who works for an organization that doesn't support an idea meritocracy, but they want to learn and get better?

A Well, I think the first thing you have to decide is what are the most important things for yourself, right? Um, if it's the case that everybody has the right to make sense of things, the right and obligation to make sense of things. Now, if you're in an environment that doesn't allow that, doesn't allow you to ask questions and do those explorations, um, for me, you know, frankly speaking, I couldn't do that. I just couldn't do that. For somebody else, that may not be a problem. So you have to decide for yourself first, you know, is what, what is the right environment? What do you like? What's, what's important? If it's a really high important thing to you, um, then you will find it. It may not be at that job. It may be at the next job. It may not be a hundred percent exactly the way you want it. It may, but you can find a by and large way of, of, Finding it. And it's not just the organization you're with. It's the relationships you're in. Because this doesn't end up just with your organization. It's like if you're having a partner. How do you deal with your partner? It could be a spouse. It could be anybody. How are, how do you, what's your relationship? How are you going to get past the disagreement? So it's the same three questions. Can you put your honest thoughts on the table to look at together?

AI assessment note: “you have to decide is what are the most important things for yourself”

Q Why do you think, or maybe it's a misconception on my part, but why do you think so many successful people are unhappy? Is it that the strategies they've chosen to become successful are making them?

A Well, I think the question is a, is a deep psychological question of what, what are they going after, right? And are, is success going to provide that? So, uh, for example, um, if they're going after status, um, If they're going after the admiration of others, and so things, I don't think that that's going to bring them happiness. Probably a lot of people who are successful are compulsive and trying to get those types of things. So I think a lot of people, um, versus, uh, you know, so the question is, Um, is it a, is it a personality disorder that is making people continue to strive to get something that they can, that is within them, and that they can have that? So I, um, yeah, I don't think, um, why are you doing it? You know, is it the thrill?

AI assessment note: “if they're going after status... I don't think that that's going to bring them happiness”

Q I imagine everybody's throwing information at you. How do you filter what's valuable and what's noise?

A Well, I don't let them randomly throw the information at, you know, I, I'm very, um, stepping back. I'm much more, um, like to go to kind of a, what I might describe as a higher level. There's, there's the blizzard that everybody's normally in, and that's where they're caught with all these things coming at them. And I prefer to go above the blizzard and just organize. So I'm, it's, it's, uh, organized that way. I, I'm, I also should say that I meditate. So I started my day when you gave me the question as I started my business day. I should say I also find that meditation has been fantastic, and I do that regularly. So, um, I want to always maintain an equanimity Um, not get caught in the blizzard to try to be more strategic, and so, um, I don't, I manage that.

AI assessment note: “I prefer to go above the blizzard and just organize.”

Q How did the principles transfer over to the world of philanthropy?

A Uh, you know, it's the same thing. It's part of this, uh, you know, evolution. I started, I didn't have any money. And, um, then you acquire money. And, you know, for money, for me, money was not very much a priority to begin with. Um, it just happened to be the thing that I do. It produces a lot of money if you do it well. Um, but anyway, uh, you evolve and you make your choices. Um, and I think as you go higher and higher in the level of evolution, and maybe as you get older, or you, um, Also, this meditation has helped me, uh, feel connected to other people, feel connected beyond me. I realize I'm part of an ecosystem. I'm an infinitesimally small part of an ecosystem, and I really do feel that the ecosystem is much more important than me, and I can see it from that higher level kind of thing, so I feel connected to others, and then I think about what my incremental What, what are the increments? So, uh, and, and what it can mean. So on the margin, what is it going to mean to another person that amount of money? And I also view it as an, uh, a life cycle thing. In other words, you know, I don't know, you start with nothing and then you end with nothing. So, uh, it's part of that evolutionary process. Um, so, you know, it's like the issue of, um, what, what I call spirituality. Spirituality, um, I don't mean religion. I mean the notion of feeling connected to others and the w…

AI assessment note: “in terms of philanthropy, it becomes a a natural extension of that.”