The Exchanges

Q What attracted you to the Navy, specifically? What, why was that your passion?

A Well, I was out on the ocean, crossing, ah, on my way to, ah, to, ah, England. My father had been posted there. And, um, The immensity of the ocean, which was something that I, I had never seen, and which I saw, uh, as we crossed, um, we had some bad weather, so I saw an ocean that was, that was, uh, very, um, uh, worked up and, uh, and tempestuous, and, uh, it was rough. Uh, I saw beautiful calm waters with beautiful sunsets, And that just sort of grabbed me, and I said, this is what I want to do. I never really wanted to do a job where I would be at a desk all day long. I wanted there to be, yes, that component, which is important, but also the physical component. I wanted to be doing other things as well as part of my job, things that would perhaps challenge me physically, ah, and, ah, the Navy seemed to be That kind of, uh, uh, profession.

AI assessment note: “The immensity of the ocean... grabbed me, and I said, this is what I want”

Q Do you think your role as a critic makes you a better minister?

A I think it does. Um, I, I would say that, um, I was critic for science and technology, for industry, um, foreign affairs, uh, at one time, short time, uh, natural resources, so I had to learn about those things. In order to be able to ask intelligent questions, um, make intelligent speeches, and, uh, and, and, uh, and find, uh, whether or not there was reason to criticize the government. So, yes, uh, it is a valuable experience, uh, being a critic, and because you are the person who is officially, uh, supposed to take care of a particular file. And so, uh, yes, I've enjoyed being a critic. Transport I was never the critic for. That's something I had to basically learn from scratch, uh, but, uh, you know, I, um, I have to say I love the job of being transport minister. It's, it suits me perfectly.

AI assessment note: “I think it does.”

Q How could it be otherwise, really? Like, can you give an example of a country that has a solid economy without a solid infrastructure and transportation?

A Well, I think it's, ah, no, you know, I think you're right. It, it, it couldn't be otherwise, but, you know, if you're, if you're, ah, um, a small country, your challenge is much smaller. If you're a small country in a temperate climate, it's much smaller. Moving the, the, the amount of product that we move in this country, ah, over very large distances in what can sometimes be horrible weather conditions is a very challenging thing. And if you look at the north, where there is only rudimentary infrastructure, and where a lot of the resources are located, Uh, how well we can make that system efficient can have a definite and important benefit for Canada, and that is something that, uh, we need to improve.

AI assessment note: “I think you're right. It, it, it couldn't be otherwise”

Q to contextualize that with, it seems to me that the demographic in Canada, anecdotally, from my point of view, is changing. Most people tend to be purple, I would say, which is a mixture of kind of red and blue. Uh, they might be socially liberal and fiscally conservative. And, and just with that backdrop, can you speak to me about what it means to be a liberal in 2017?

A Yes, um, and, and, and liberals, uh, it's, we're not narrowly defined. There is quite a spectrum. You said purple. Uh, there are blue liberals. In other words, they are, if you like, more traditional and conservative fiscally, but all liberals do have that social side to them. So they're either going to be a little bit of left of center, or in the middle, or a little bit right of center. So we have always been a party That oscillates above the center. Uh, I think more importantly today, and I think our Prime Minister has articulated it, uh, being a liberal here in Canada is wanting to be open on the world at a time when we see, um, protectionism coming in. We, we, we've seen some, some evidence of that in the world where, where, um, people talk about terms like populism and nativism, Coming into, ah, the, the politics of, of governments in certain countries. We in Canada want to remain open with, to the world, as far as trade is concerned, as far as bringing immigrants into our country, so not, no change from that point of view, at a time when many other countries are changing. So I think that, to me, more than anything, means being a liberal.

AI assessment note: “being a liberal here in Canada is wanting to be open on the world”

Q Which is top of mind for everybody. How do you see this playing out over the next 10 or up to 20 30 to, in line with your vision?

A It's coming at us. There's no question, um, and, ah, I would like Canada to be, ah, not just a follower. We, this is really, ah, more than anything, it's a, it's an IT, ah, challenge, and I think that Canada has a huge amount of talent to bring to it, ah, but we don't want to be playing catch up and following everybody else, so I think there's a chance for Canada to lead, ah, in this country, Uh, with the development of automated vehicles. In leading, in, in terms of, of intelligent transportation systems. Uh, in, in developing the optimum, uh, V to V and V to I, uh, communications. Uh, in helping to develop the software that will, you know, help us to minimize congestion, uh, in our cities. Um, there's a huge amount that Canada can do. And perhaps also take on a challenge, which is particular to countries like Canada that get covered with snow and ice, ah, which can be quite different from driving on a nice Californian road. So, there are some things that Canada can do. At the transportation, ah, in the, in Transport Canada, we have a facility up in Blainville, just north of Montreal. Ah, the other day I was in a convoy of three Uh, 18 wheelers. And they were all going at 85 kilometers perfectly spaced from each other. The second and the third were just queuing off the first, the, the first, uh, truck, and, and the second off, the third off the second. The only thing the drive…

AI assessment note: “I think there's a chance for Canada to lead, ah, in this country”

Q Was the immensity of space what pulled you to, to that as well, or was that something different?

A It's very, uh, similar in many, many ways. It is a, it's a, it's a vast frontier. Uh, it is one where you rely on your fellow crew members, uh, for your survival. When you're in a ship, when you're out there, it's just you. And although we have modern technology today, things can sometimes go wrong, And you are depending on the rest of the crew in a hostile environment, sometimes hostile environment, and it's very similar to what, uh, you, uh, do in space. In fact, I think it's, uh, we call, we, we call, uh, spacecraft spaceships, and, uh, and it is very much, uh, that kind of, uh, uh, an experience of travel, of, of going on to the new frontier, and, uh, the reason that I decided to What I wanted to become an astronaut was because I like adventure. Uh, the Navy had given me a sense of adventure. I thought this would be a new adventure.

AI assessment note: “reason that I decided to What I wanted to become an astronaut was because I like adventure”

Q I want to talk about, ah, at least three specific kind of second order impacts of that. One is, How do, how do you perceive that self-driving cars will affect our investment in infrastructure such as roads? Will it change the size of the roads that we build because now we can put cars closer together with fewer accidents? How, how does that play out?

A I think there is still a lot of unknowns. Are we going to end up having less cars on the road to begin with? That is a question that some people say, yes, we will have less cars. Other people say we're going to have just as many cars. Um, I think that, um, it's, it's probably too early to know exactly how it's going to, to evolve in terms of infrastructure. We need certainly the smart, intelligent, uh, infrastructure that's going to provide all the necessary information to, to the vehicles to help them, uh, to, to, uh, Optimally get from A to B in the most intelligent, ah, and, ah, and, ah, and cost effective way. The least damaging to the environment. Those things are, are all part of it. But in terms of whether we end up having less roads, we're, we're also at the same time trying to push for more public transit, as you know, in our country. Ah, so we could very well end up, I think, In the long run, perhaps over a long period of time, redeveloping our cities according to different criteria. We all know that our cities have all been built around cars. That's a truism. And as a result of that, we've paid some important prices with respect to that. Congestion, pollution, those kinds of things. And I think a lot of Thinking, uh, is that we should try to make sure that we don't make those new mistakes as we, as we design new cities. We're stuck with the ones we've had at the mome…

AI assessment note: “it's probably too early to know exactly how it's going to evolve in terms of infrastructure.”

Q And the third kind of second order impact there I want to talk about is if the, if the cars become primarily based on software, and they can interact with each other, What role does cyber security play in that, and what role does the government play for Canadians in, in, uh, space?

A Well, cyber security is very important, uh, because obviously we do not want to have a situation where, uh, uh, there are, uh, where there's a capacity from a hacking point of view to influence how a car is driving itself. If it's based on this, on this system of V to V and V to I and, and, uh, and it's working Harmoniously, ah, and you disrupt that intentionally, ah, then you can lead to some, some pretty catastrophic results, especially if cars are, are on a highway and they're all driving close to each other. So, cyber security is, is part of the challenge that's involved there. And, and then there are interesting questions such as, ah, if an accident does occur, whose fault is it? And, ah, How does one purchase insurance? Uh, how, how will insurance companies price the insurance for automated vehicles? There are lots of new issues that, uh, have to be dealt with.

AI assessment note: “cyber security is very important, uh, because obviously we do not want to have a situation”

Q How are we supposed to judge, as citizens, the role of a minister?

A Well, based on what we do, uh, for example, um, we, uh, let, let me give you an example. Um, uh, I have come out recently with a, um, what, what's called a, a vision for transport for the next, uh, 15 years. It's called Transportation, and in there, I say, we're going to do the following things as we move into the future. And there are a whole bunch of elements. To give you an example, I've said that we will come up with what people often call a bill of rights for air travelers. We call it a rights regime, and this is a regime by which if you are kicked off a flight because they've overbooked, and, ah, has it happened to any of you? Yes, I think a few of you, including myself. Uh, where you've lost.

AI assessment note: “Well, based on what we do, uh, for example”

Q Ministers have an incredibly difficult job. How do you define success for yourself in that particular role, not in the context of the broader government, but day to day? How do you know that you're, you're doing exceptional versus kind of just doing good?

A I think you get a sense of it from everything that's around you. Um, the media, of course, uh, in addition to the opposition, will criticize you if they think that you're doing a bad job. The bad job may be, um, legislation that you're bringing forward, or how you handle a particular event, and every single day of the week there will be a particular issue that, uh, That, uh, will come up. I mean, that's just the nature of, uh, of government. There are a huge number of issues related to transport, and you get a sense out there in the public whether people are with you and think that you're doing a reasonable job, and that doesn't mean everybody's going to agree with you, but if most people, uh, feel that you're doing, uh, your job, uh, you get a sense of whether they believe that you're a confident minister. It's just, Hard to define, but, but it is something that, uh, that you get a sense of, because you're going to read things where people will criticize you, or tell you to your face, and you're going to read things where people tell you that you've made the right decision, and you've got to interpret all of that, and you've got to be honest with yourself. You can't just, uh, choose to believe the, the good stuff. You've got to also, uh, remember that, uh, you've got to take everybody's opinion into account, but you get a sense of whether you're, You're doing it, ah, and of co…

AI assessment note: “I think you get a sense of it from everything that's around you.”

Q of that, you're surrounded by people, ah, who have different, different incentives, and some of those incentives don't align with you, and those people are passing you information that you need to make decisions on. How do you go about ascertaining the validity of the information you're making the decisions on and testing it? It's been through so many filters and so many people with so many different political agendas.

A And that's a very challenging thing. Um, I pride myself as an engineer, that's my, that's my education, that's my background, in being very rigorous in doing my research. Because if I'm going to get out in front of a bunch of people and say, um, this is what happened, or this is, uh, uh, based on, on, on, uh, my knowledge, this is what we're going to do, and I'm wrong. It's very embarrassing, and it's, it's, uh, it's something that I really don't want happening. So, to me, there is a very rigorous process when you get all these inputs from the people that you work with, um, there's a very rigorous process of, of, uh, making sure that the information that you have received is correct, uh, and that you're comfortable with that information.

AI assessment note: “there is a very rigorous process of, of, uh, making sure that the information”

Q What was the drive that inspired you to, uh, run for office?

A Well, that's another matter. Uh, running for office is, um, I used to say, uh, when I was an astronaut, people liked me. Uh, but when you enter the political arena, it's a totally different arena, and, um, people tell you what they think. I happen to be a liberal, and not everybody's a liberal, and, uh, some people feel, uh, and, and they're, they're quite right. They're entitled to tell you, uh, that they don't agree with you. They don't agree with your party. They don't agree with you on your views, and that is part of politics. And so, uh, you have to, uh, you have to make a serious decision, uh, because the big change in my life when I went from being a naval officer, I was an engineer, to becoming an astronaut, the big change is that I went from being a private person to being a public person. So I knew then that when I walked down the street to go to, I don't know, to Canadian Tire to buy some, ah, some tools, that people might recognize me, that they might, ah, want to talk to me. So, you know, on a Saturday morning when previously nobody would have known who I was or cared. So suddenly I realized that there was a big change in my life because I was now a public person. And, ah, you know, I'm no different Since I became an astronaut from before I became an astronaut. I still slip on the ice, just like everybody does once in a while. People say, hey, you're an astronaut, …

AI assessment note: “Well, that's another matter. Uh, running for office is”