The Exchanges

Q That's excellent. One of the things that I was excited about today was often these conversations are theoretical, but we have Joe here. And Joe, I'm, I'm curious, what led you to HRV and to start working with Dr. Lagos?

A You know, when I got the job, I understood and realized the, you know, arena that we're in, the variables, the physical, the mental, the emotional, spiritual variables that Are present in every game, especially as you head towards the playoffs. And so, you know, it being my first year, you know, as a head coach, I wanted to work on myself. I wanted to build an awareness of myself, how my body, how my mind, how my heart, uh, reacts to stress, uh, so that I could be a precursor for our team, so that I could be the spearhead for, for what our team needs at that particular time. And I had never been in a playoff situation and I knew it was a high, high level Uh, of everything. Stress, uh, anxiety, you know, physical, mental pressure. Uh, so I thought, you know, breathing and HRV was how I could kind of bring myself to peak performance to then try to lead that for the team.

AI assessment note: “breathing and HRV was how I could kind of bring myself to peak performance”

Q So when you say oscillate, do you mean sort of like stop negative momentum or is it to amplify positive momentum? Like what, what does oscillate mean in that context?

A I think it can be both, right? I think, I think it can be both. And a perfect example was like game seven of the, of the Philly series. So the game seven of the Philly series, I think we're down 35, 28 in the first quarter. And, um, we call a timeout and I just walk out to half court. And, you know, those were the moments that at the beginning of the year, I was a little bit scared of because like, What did it show? I didn't have the emotional intelligence that I showed. I didn't have, but it was a, it was a predetermined act to, to grab back the momentum and to grab the energy of the team and to, to oscillate to a certain point where the people around you could feed off of that. And I, you know, I'm, you know, I think our, that was a small piece that I felt like our players were able to, uh, connect with, with me and we were able to kind of change The momentum of that. Um, so like, you know, opening and finding small, you know, abilities to do that, because as soon as, right after you do it, you got to come back and then you have to have a technical approach to a timeout. And so you have to, you know, bring your heart rate down. You have to oscillate back down to baseline. And so that, that's like an example.

AI assessment note: “I think it can be both, right? I think, I think it can be both.”

Q Was there a difference between how you felt before and after your training? Oh, sure.

A And I think, you know, uh, Doc mentioned something of like, I think as performers or, or leaders and, and when we're in decision-making processes, for me personally, I always felt like I had to act quote unquote calm or always had to be a certain way, uh, in order to make good decisions or you can't make decisions if you're not, um, calm. And what I learned and something we really started working on was the oscillation process. You know, the ability to fluctuate your, your heart rate, um, so that you can operate under different levels of stress. And then when you do get into those levels of stress, how quickly can you recover back down? And so it really opens up my mind to, it's not about being one way. It's about how can you manipulate your environment? How can you manipulate the momentum? How can you, you know, fluctuate your energy, uh, in order to have a positive effect on, you know, the environment around you.

AI assessment note: “I always felt like I had to act quote unquote calm... what I learned”

Q Can, can you double click on that a little bit and go deeper? I want to hear more about that.

A Yeah. I mean, I think we started kind of going to that towards the end of the season. And into the playoffs. And, you know, we started just kind of saying like, when do you feel at your best? You know, when do you feel at your most flow state? What are some of the things in your life, um, that kind of make you who you are? And as we would go through our breathing routines and she talks about, you know, how we would do our visualization and where, what can I connect my heart to? And I know you mentioned your grandmother. Uh, the two things I was able to connect my heart to was my dad passing. And then my relationship with my wife and kids. And like, you know, for me initially, it was like, I don't necessarily, I love, but I don't feel the love. I can't connect to the love. I know it's there. It's an action, but it's not yet a, a feeling or an emotion. It's more of just an action. And like, can we shift that a little bit to where, you know, I can express myself the way My mind is telling me I should, you know, and how can we do that through the heart? And so a lot of our visualizations came into, like, my best moments with my wife, my best moments with my children, my best moments with my dad before he had passed, and what he's done for me since he's passed, and how I was able to connect to those things. And, you know, with the breathing, it, like, forces you, it forces you to si…

AI assessment note: “a lot of our visualizations came into, like, my best moments with my wife”

Q Can you talk to me a little bit more about that? You mentioned environment and momentum as two of the variables that you want to have an impact on because they, they determine behavior in a way.

A Yeah, I mean, I think, you know, for me personally, the beginning of the year, as you're trying to figure it out, um, you, you feel, uh, for lack of a better term, you can feel what you're giving off, the energy that you're giving off, or the, you can feel the momentum of the game going a certain type of way. And, you know, as I got A little bit more experience this year. I was able to see how I can affect that, you know, through my breathing, uh, through my awareness. Um, and so, you know, whether there was moments of the proper time to act a little bit, you know, outside of yourself, or if you had to, you know, oscillate into, you know, get a little aggressive, if you had to end up the aggressive moments, be a little bit calm and how can you just fluctuate into different, uh, levels of energy? Um, that can maybe spearhead, uh, a small run. That can maybe spark energy. That can maybe change the momentum. And so using that, you know, how you present yourself on the sidelines, how you operate during a time-up. So all these little areas of oscillation and opportunities for momentum all came back to breathing, you know, because you're able to keep yourself at a baseline. You're able to build an awareness. You're able to build a connection to your body and mind. And you know exactly, you know, how you can operate during each of these different times. And then you start anticipating…

AI assessment note: “I was able to see how I can affect that, you know, through my breathing”

Q What sort of things did you do before a game to maximize your HRV?

A Um, you know, I think the, the two biggest things, and I'll go to the, the, the, this side first, and then we can have a deeper conversation with music. And, you know, the other part I started to realize was like, I, I, I think we are, we're on autopilot about how the things in our environment really affect our physiology. Like, we just don't know all the time. We're not aware of it. And for me, one of those was music. And so, you know, music is a tool, um, that you're constantly being surrounded by. Whether you're working out, whether you're working, whether you're driving. What I didn't realize was how certain songs can have an impact on my, my heart rate can have an impact on my stress. And so just by listening to a song, so consciously you're putting your body into a different level of stress than you would even realize. And then that may have an effect on a decision that you make 45 minutes later. Uh, and so one of the cool things that we got to with our, you know, our biofeedback was like, we made a playlist of songs that keep me in, in a flow state, uh, that keep me at the level that I need to be in, that give me the opportunity to oscillate. They don't put me in a, you know, sympathetic state. They put me in the ability to be in a parasympathetic state. And so it was a list of like five to eight songs. And, you know, I got to the point where like, that was, that was, th…

AI assessment note: “we made a playlist of songs that keep me in, in a flow state”

Q There's bright lights. There's all these players. How do you think about that going into a game? What do you do? Is it formalized? Like I have a plan for stress here, so I'm going to deal with it. Or is it, these are recurring moments of stress that tend to come up in games. And based on that pattern, now I know how I can better control those moments.

A Yeah, I think it starts before the game. Um, just getting your body into the proper space, get your mind into the proper space. But the word that really comes up for me is just being valuable is, is, you know, HRV kind of allowed me to be, be more malleable, have an understanding that like, yes, there's going to be stress, but it's going to look differently. At different times, but it's going to be there. And so how can we get our body, mind and heart valuable to the point where it can handle that opportunity, uh, when it comes? Cause you don't want to put yourself in a box to where it's like, okay, it's going to be this. And I, and I have, I have these, I'm going to do this when this happens. Well, that might not happen. And so like, that's the word for me is like, you just be malleable, you know, be in a flow state, have the ability to, you know, oscillate, um, have that cognitive fix area. Like, so it's more of the plan of understanding There's going to be different kinds of stress at different times, and then how can we just approach it, you know, based on how can we put our physiology in the best possible state to handle it at that time?

AI assessment note: “it's more of the plan of understanding There's going to be different kinds of stress”

Q What was that routine? Like you get back to the hotel room or did it start before the hotel room in order to maximize that rest period that you had, whether it was five hours or eight hours.

A It started kind of right after the game. Really. I kind of met at the point where now we're like, my residence is four and six out. So I have the ability to kind of just do that whenever I feel like, you know, I'm in a certain state. And so that kind of happens a little after the game. I wasn't perfect with it. You know, if it was a big game, I would still go out and have a glass of wine and have dinner, but at least made me think of building awareness. Like you get home, you take a hot shower to be able to, to bring your body back down, go through a stretching routine. You have your, I saved my 15 minute breathing, uh, routine for after the game. So I was able to get your body there. Um, and then just what you eat, you know, so steamed vegetables, stuff like that. So going towards a little bit more of a diet that would help me, uh, you know, not have a negative impact on my sleep. You know, right after. There's a lot of scientific things. There's a lot of technical things that HRV helped me with, but I think the piece that I wasn't expecting it was how it changed my heart, how it changed my emotions, how it changed how I experienced love. Uh, I think that had the biggest impact that I, I didn't know it was going to have. I got into it from more of a, you know, a, a athletic standpoint, a peak performance standpoint. How can I be better on the sidelines? How can I be better as …

AI assessment note: “It started kind of right after the game... hot shower... stretching routine”

Q I'm curious if, uh, I mean, love is a great example. Did it have any impact on how you had developed relationships with your players, with other coaches, or even, even family members who, who might not be, uh, in the same category as your wife per se?

A Yeah, I mean, I think for me to get to the love, I had to first get through self-expression. And, you know, I, you know, you talk about taking risks on the court, like I had to take risks in life emotionally, which is something that I don't necessarily do all the time. And that's where the breathing and the HRV kind of helped me with that. And so like, you know, it all goes back to when you get into these, this arena is like, how do you self-express? You know, like, how do you express yourself? How do you express what you're feeling? How do you, uh, have an impact on the people around you? And so like this, this, once I was able to, you know, quote unquote, unlock, and you can just, you know, feel the freedom to self-express, it leads to that love, and then it leads to that taking risk, and then it leads to, yes, you try to, you're able to connect more with people. You know, I'm not saying I'm the best at it by any means, Uh, but I felt the ability to just be more empathetic. I felt the ability to just kind of go to where that person was. You know, when you go from the transition from where I was to where I am now, as far as that is, like, a lot of it is, like, how quickly can you make yourself comfortable, um, in those moments? So, like, it definitely just kind of helped me understand myself better to where I could be more authentic.

AI assessment note: “you're able to connect more with people... I felt the ability to just be more empathetic.”

Q So walk me through that a little bit, like take me back game seven, Miami heat, you know, the first few minutes, first few minutes of the game, your best player gets injured. Are you thinking in that moment about breathing? Like, how are you managing?

A Let's take it back, take it back even further. And again, I'm by no means, uh, an expert at this yet. I'm still learning a ton. So there was moments, even, you know, during this off season, there's been moments where I'm like, man, I could have, um, oscillated better there. I could have worked through that better. So we go in the beginning of the season and what, what I started to feel personally was like in these moments of decision-making, in these moments of opportunity, you go back to the, the, You know, fight or flight. For me, it was like fight, flight, or freeze. Like, you just kind of get into situations where you don't do anything, you know, where, um, it may be analysis by paralysis, or you have four or five options, and you don't know which option to pick, and you end up not picking one, which is also a decision, right? And so, at the beginning of the year, when you're, you know, you're working through all these variables, you're working all through all these experiences and situations, you're trying to figure out what is the best, um, You know, mindset or approach towards that situation, but you end up not doing one, right? And so as we started to work, I was able to get away from those. And there were a few games in the beginning of the year where it's like, I felt like I could have helped the energy and the momentum of the game by oscillating. If I knew how to at …

AI assessment note: “Let's take it back, take it back even further.”

Q Maybe this is a silly question, but how do we know when that trauma helps us? And how do we know when it hurts us?

A That's not, that's not a silly question at all. I mean, that was the question I had from, you know, Doc during the process. He's like, One, I'm building an awareness to the fact that the trauma is having an effect on you. Is it a positive or a negative? And then where is it affecting you? And how do you navigate that? You know? And a lot of it comes down to, to that. And so, like, I'll, I'll give you an example. Like, this job means more to me than anything. You know, one, because I'm from New England, but two, I got hired by the Southerners. I was an assistant coach in the same month that my dad got diagnosed with brain cancer. And so, like, these two, this job is tied together by, like, a strong positive emotion and a very strong negative emotion. And then what I realized was like, I never actually really dealt with the trauma of that. And so I, and when I ended up becoming into the head coaching and you start to feel different things and you start to learn more about yourself. And as we got into the process, I was like, yeah, this is having a direct effect on this. And I haven't really dealt with this. Like I thought I have, okay, we need to go back and like, how do we, Deal with this, this trauma. How do we deal with this emotion? How do you deal with this? You have to bring it back out. And then once you bring it back out, you have to let it go. But like, you know, especia…

AI assessment note: “building an awareness to the fact that the trauma is having an effect on you”