The Exchanges

Q providing here. There's a couple areas that I wanted to sort of follow up with here. One was the nature of the airplane and constant adjustments. It's like there's an active stability to it. Right. You need to be conscious and active in order to stabilize. And then the other thing around the core wants that you said, so approval, control, security, oneness. Can you explore those a little bit?

A So I first heard about these from Hale Dwoskin, who is the teacher of the Sedona method. It's a really great method. And he, I believe got them from his mentor, Lester Levinson. They're not original, I'm sure, but that's where I heard him. I want to give credit. So the four core wants of all human beings, and these are natural, they're not wrong, they're natural, they're instinctual. The first core want is approval. It's the desire to be liked, loved, valued, respected, wanted. The second core want is for control. It's just simply the desire for the world to be the way we think the world should be. All of us have a belief about the way the world should be, and the world could be how fast my computer's running. The world could be my desk. The world could be my children. The world could be, ah, Economic variables going on right now. We all have a way we think the world should be and a way the world shouldn't be. Control is just our desire to make the world be the way we think it should be. So I say to people all the time, we're all control freaks. We don't, our very survivability is at threat when we lack approval and when we lack control. If we get cut out of the clan, ostracized from the tribe, Because we're not approved of, that's a death sentence. So it's natural and normal that we are looking for approval, love, connectivity. When we feel out of control, it's threatening tha…

AI assessment note: “The first core want is approval. It's the desire to be liked, loved”

Q That's so powerful. Thank you for sharing that with us. I want to come, I'm not losing sight of this. I know we're going down a lot of rabbit holes here and a lot of, uh, asides. I think it's incredible. I want to come back to sort of the fourth pillar of integrity, which is being impeccable with your agreements. What does that mean?

A So an agreement, let's just start there. An agreement is anything I've said I would do or wouldn't do. That's an agreement. And an agreement, I can make agreements with myself. I make an agreement with myself to work out every morning at whatever time, something like that. But agreements often exist between two or more people. So an agreement is anything I've said I would do or wouldn't do. And an agreement involves who's going to do what by when. So a lot of drama in life is caused because we have unclear and unkept agreements. Just think about it. So much drama is caused. So much energy is wasted. You're in a team meeting and you say, I thought you said you'd give me that report by five o'clock. And the person says, no, no, I said it'd be next Tuesday. Or the truth of the matter is we never said when it would be, so I just assumed it would be five o'clock. And I thought the scope of the report would be this, and you thought the scope of the report would be that. And so we're just wasting massive amounts of energy and With unclear agreements. So the first key to being impeccable with your agreements is make clear agreements. Who is going to do what by when? So simple. When people in teams get aligned to be impeccable with agreements, they start keeping about 90% of their agreements. Now, when you go in and you look at a relationship or a team that's working together and you sa…

AI assessment note: “the first key to being impeccable with your agreements is make clear agreements”

Q That makes a lot of sense. I'm curious as to other examples of sort of self-reflective questions you give people, and also are there like context-specific ones, like I made a decision, or I had an interaction with a person. What sort of prompts would you offer to reflect on?

A Sure. Let's go with, I had an interaction with a person. So I have an interaction with a person. You and I can do this. We finish our interaction. And before we run off to our next thing, just get still for a minute. And then a question I might ask would be something like this in stillness. I might ask, was there any place where I got reactive in that conversation? Was there any place where I got self protective? Was there any place where I got more interested in control and approval And survival, the three core wants of any ego structure. So was there any place where I got more interested in control and approval and safety and security than I was in learning? If you, if we have a deep, authentic conversation and you go wherever you want to go and you ask questions, there might be moments where fear will come up. It'd be the natural, normal response. And so in reflection, I might go back and say, where did fear come So I worked with an investment team outside of London last week and you know, at all, they've checked most of the great boxes. They're really clear about their vision and their values. And they've got a very clear investment philosophy and even an investment process. We were working on how to have world-class conversations. So in the midst of conversations, we would just pause at times, just literally pause. Too much sound, too much fury in most conversations. Pause…

AI assessment note: “a question I might ask would be... was there any place where I got reactive”

Q Go deeper on that. What do you mean by that?

A So a practice is just something that I do, that I have a desired outcome, and I want to accrue a benefit. So it could be that I, um, you know, wanna do cardio training three days a week. So now that becomes a practice. I'm gonna do a HIIT or something like that. Now, discipline is that I'm gonna show up and get on the bike with some regularity, and discipline, of course, is the whole idea that I'm going to, um, postpone gratification. That's the basic idea of discipline. So to me, the difference between a practice and a ritual is If you look at the word ritual, you know, it comes from traditions, often spiritual traditions, ecclesiastical traditions, and what a ritual was, was something that I or we did in the physical realm that pointed to something in the other realm. Rituals. They're actually beautiful things. So there's a big difference between whether I'm doing a practice or a ritual and whether I'm exercising discipline or devotion. So the difference between discipline and devotion is discipline is this idea of delayed gratification. I love it. It's essential. Devotion is this idea. It's like, it's like I'm offering, I'm offering something. It's a very different energy. And when I'm devoted or in devotion, I'm offering My attention. I'm offering my time. So let me, let me illustrate a couple of different ways. So at our home in Michigan, where I spend most of my time, we …

AI assessment note: “So a practice is just something that I do, that I have a desired outcome”

Q When I was looking for a place to start, I think the best place to start is about the, the line, a single black line and why that's the most important model for leadership. Can you explain that to us?

A Sure. So when we work with individuals and teams and organizations, we're looking to start the conversation with a simple model, kind of a simple on-ramp that can be immediately applicable, like within 15 minutes of the conversation. So like any simple model or simple on-ramp, it's open to being oversimplified, and I totally get that. But the model itself is just this. There's a line, and at any moment in time, and we can talk about that, but at any moment in time, you're either above the line or below the line. So when you're above the line, you're open, curious, and committed to learning. You're in, you're actually in a sense of trust, able to trust yourself, able to trust the environment, able to trust who you're ever in relationship with, able to trust the universe, wherever you're placing your trust. And when you're below the line, you're contracted. You're in a state of threat. So now you're closed, could be closed minded. Your literal body posture could be closed. Very often your heart is closed. You're defensive. And the big idea is you're attached to proving you're right. So what we're simply saying is that the first key skill of conscious leaders is self-awareness that leads the pack. And the first act of self-awareness is, can I locate myself in this now moment? Am I open or closed? Am I in a state of trust or a state of threat? Because we believe that ability to loc…

AI assessment note: “There's a line, and at any moment in time... you're either above the line or below”

Q you made that was interesting to me is that a lot of world-class leaders have problems with self-acceptance because somehow they feel like they're driven By this, is it a chip on their shoulder? Am I understanding that correctly? Like what, what is, what is sort of driving, what do they feel or perceive as driving them? And then what's actually driving them when you change the, the self-acceptance lens?

A Okay, great question. So what's driving so many of them is down deep, way down deep. There is a belief that says, It's not okay. Just the way it is. I'm not okay. Just the way I am. Now there can be many variations of how that shows up in a leader based on their personality structure, but down deep, there's this sense that I'm not okay. It's not okay. Something needs to be different. Now with some people, the age old story might be something needs to be different. In order for me to get the approval that I want from fill in the blank, you know, a primary caregiver, um, you know, my siblings, my family of origin, my original community, my first coach, um, whoever it is, or myself, something has to be different. Just the way I am. Isn't okay. That would be one form of this. Another would be, it's not okay. Just the way it is. And I'm not okay. Just the way I am because I've got to even the score. Something was done to me. Something happened, and there's a fuel in my belly that says, I am going to overcome this, and if I pause for a moment and take a break, I'll lose that Fire in the belly that is driving me to overcome. And we could just keep exploring and keep exploring and finding these core beliefs that sit, I believe, that were developed before we were six years old that have driven us. And by the way, I say to all the leaders that we work with, they've produced wonderful ups…

AI assessment note: “what's driving so many of them is down deep... There is a belief that says”

Q things, pause, reflect, instrument. I want to talk about feedback a little bit, and then I want to sort of get into parenting a little bit in terms of what we can do as parents. So walk me through feedback in terms of self-awareness. How can I use feedback? How can I set feedback up? How can I get people to give me feedback so I can become more self-aware?

A Yeah, great question. So one of the questions I work with leaders on, we work with teams on all the time is how feedback reaches the environment. And again, a lot of times I'll talk to leaders, you know, the higher up they go in their trajectory. It's not uncommon at all that they tell me they're getting less and less feedback. Makes sense based on power dynamics and structures and fear and all that makes total sense. But when they first start talking to me, they want to talk from victim. They want to say that they're at the effect of the environment that's giving them less feedback. And I say, would you be willing to take responsibility for being the creator of your reality? In other words, you're getting as much feedback as you're committed to getting. So stop anybody around you. And then I say, would you be willing to create a feedback rich body? And that's a real serious exploration. We really want to play with that. And let's say the person says, yes, I want to create a feedback rich environment. Good. Then the next thing I would say to him is, let's identify your feedback filters. So a feedback filter is anything that completes this sentence. In order for me to value your feedback, I would need you to blank. So when I ask these, they might say, well, in order for me to value your feedback, I'd need you to be a subject matter expert. In order for me to value your feedback,…

AI assessment note: “let's identify your feedback filters. So a feedback filter is anything that completes this sentence”

Q What does it mean to be self-aware?

A Well, in its most simple terms, it's the ability to accurately, and that needs to be in air quotes, accurately, or as accurately as possible, see yourself. Now, of course, this has been in the parlance of leadership for a long time. The Center for Creative Leadership, when they first brought out their 67 core competencies, self-awareness, along with learning agility and communication and influences, We're the top four competencies that trumped all others. So in the world of leadership, we've been talking about self-awareness, the ability to see oneself. So we're making it specific in not just, can I see my strengths? Can I see my weaknesses? Can I see my style? Can I see my thinking patterns? But in this moment, can I see the state of my consciousness? Can I see whether to your, I like your word. Can I see whether I'm Totally in service of outcomes, or am I contracted in egoic defensiveness? Can I see that? And growing in self-awareness, in our experience, you know, there are three ways you can grow in self-awareness. One is to become more self-reflective. Actually pause and bring almost like the lens of attention back at yourself as though there was something outside of you looking back at you, and there are practices around how to do The other way to grow in self-awareness is to use some instrument. You know, you could use a technical instrument like the MMPI or a personality…

AI assessment note: “it's the ability to accurately, and that needs to be in air quotes, accurately... see yourself.”

Q but more in terms of like EQ, uh, what is it that we can do to consciously improve or be aware of where we're at? And what is it we can do to develop that in a way that's going to bring us closer to To other people to have more meaningful relationships, to be more empathetic towards them and more sensitive to maybe the context in which they're operating.

A Okay, beautiful. So I'll just give you some steps. Step number one, decide if you're willing to develop your emotional intelligence. That's not a trick question. Most people that, you know, we're interfacing with and you're interfacing with, uh, have a serious Question about the validity of feelings and emotions. And let's for now say there's the same thing. So the first question I ask is, do you want to, and let's say you've lived enough life that you go, or you've read enough of the research that says that EQ trumps IQ long-term. So you go, yes, I'm really willing. Great. Then the first thing I'd say is before you can become emotionally intelligent, you have to be emotionally literate. And emotionally literate is just the ability to know what you're feeling in any moment and name it. Which sounds so simple. It's something we should be teaching our kids, you know, when they're three, four, five, six years old, because actually our kids come hardwired to know how to do this. And then we have to teach them not to do it. They come with tremendous emotional intelligence. And then in order to socialize them, we teach them not to do that. But the first thing is, can at any moment, can I just pause and ask myself, what am I feeling right now?

AI assessment note: “before you can become emotionally intelligent, you have to be emotionally literate”

Q There's so many rabbit holes. I want to go down right now. I'm trying to think of how to organize this. I think we'll just start with the first in terms of taking radical responsibility and sort of ending blame. It's one thing to know that. Yes, I should do that. What does it look like to do that?

A It actually begins before there is a given stimuli in this moment. It begins when I'm sitting on my chair in the morning, or I'm in a silent retreat, or I'm away with my team, or my intimate partner, and I'm asking the question, how do I want to live life? So it begins with a foundational commitment. Commitment again, not being ethical or moral, commit being more energetic. In other words, it begins by me saying, declaring I want to go to San Francisco, not Austin. So I get real clear. I get on the web and I buy a ticket to San Francisco. And I know the difference between San Francisco and Austin. So it begins in quiet reflection, or it begins on retreat, or it begins, like I said, with a team deciding, do we want to play the blame game or do we want to take responsibility? So it begins with me declaring to myself and deciding, I want to play a different game in life. I want to play the responsibility game. I don't want to play the blame game. That's really important because only then do I know how I'm going to be with life when it shows up. Now let's, let's keep pressing the analogy of an airplane. So let's say I decide I'm going to San Francisco, not Austin. So I buy the ticket to San Francisco, which means I'm going to claim responsibility for my experience. Now, I've been told that no plane flies straight and true, so it drifts off course. You know, it's always course corre…

AI assessment note: “It begins with me declaring to myself and deciding, I want to play a different game”

Q So what do you, what do you do if you realize that?

A Okay, so again, I'm going to say, let's say I conclude that I'm in an unhealthy relationship. Again, after awareness comes acceptance. A breath of, like the Buddhists say, that's just the suchness of it. Today is Friday, and my experience of my relationship, it's unhealthy. Okay, so now I'm present and To that reality. And I say that because most people are unwilling to fully face what's going on in much of their life. Fully face it. They turn away from it. They partially glance at it. And one thing they're not willing to fully face is the condition of their intimate relationship. And they don't fully face it for lots of reasons. One, they think, if I fully face it, that's going to create a ton of mess. And right now, my prioritization is my work, or my prioritization is, you know, my friends, or my prioritization is taking care of my sick mother. I do not want to open up Pandora's box about the health of our relationships.

AI assessment note: “after awareness comes acceptance. A breath of, like the Buddhists say”

Q a person and how to reflect on that. I want to also, uh, super important to our audience is how do we reflect on a decision that we made, uh, within an organization? Um, maybe that decision worked out well, and maybe it didn't, but what are the prompts that we can sort of do for almost a guided reflection, um, to go back and get better at making decisions?

A Yeah, great question. So I've listened to a couple of your podcasts where I, my story was, I love the podcast, and you had people who were expert at asking that question in a way that I think most of your listeners are going to be served by it. I'm not expert at that, so I want to be clear. My expertise is How to become self-aware around the state of your consciousness. So again, I listened to a couple of podcasts where people had fabulous input about that. I was wrong. Here are the kinds of questions I want to ask you is from where did I make the decision? Did I make it from below the line or above the line?

AI assessment note: “I'm not expert at that... My expertise is How to become self-aware”