The Exchanges

Q If you get through it, you look at it back fondly, but if you don't make it through, you have the other viewpoint. So then you, you, you ended up at Ford right after, right?

A I did. Yeah. Yeah. I did. Um, I, I, what happens is halfway through the big three at, At the time, the Chrysler, General Motors, General Motors, and Ford would come and check out, you know, who has the potential to become, uh, a good employee or somebody they'd look forward to on graduation. So what they'll do is they'll sift them out around halfway through. They'll come to the college and look through the, uh, the middle ranks of the, uh, of the, of the classes and see who's, who's up and coming and has talent or whatever, or the, the mindset. And so Ford, uh, I guess they took a shine to me and said, look, if, um, if you sign with us now, we'll, we'll help you get through the rest of the way on the cost side of it, and we'll be happy to give you a starting position with us on graduation. So that, obviously, for me, when they said that was a no-brainer, I had to, you know, I thought that'll take a lot of the weight off of it, and, um, the main thing is to get my foot in the door on graduation, so what better way than to know that That door is already cracked open. So, um, yeah, I, I accepted obviously and, uh, got through the next two years pretty, pretty, um, I wouldn't say easily, but, uh, had that, like I said, the weight off my shoulders of how to get the financial packages in place. And I went to Ford straight out of, uh, uh, on graduation and they had a position open for…

AI assessment note: “I did. Yeah. Yeah. I did.”

Q Well, there's reaching it and like admitting that you've reached it, right? Like being on the self-honesty required to.

A Yeah. Yeah. You're right. Um, The thing is, you, you sometimes don't see it. Other people see it, and that's, that's a fact about a lot of things in life. You can, you can kid yourself quite a bit if you're not really self-analytical about, about the truth, and, um, I'm, I'm, I'm lucky to have a parent who was, who was able to tell me what, you know, he loved me as much as any parent could love a child, and at the same time, he wanted the best for me, and he wanted me to be happy, but he could see from the outside that pretty much, um, You're good, but you're not good enough, and good isn't good enough. Kind of that approach.

AI assessment note: “You're right. Um, The thing is, you, you sometimes don't see it.”

Q Oh, that's, that's awesome. So before we, I want to get into specifics about car design, but before we do that, I have some sort of, I have questions around not only design, but design in a, in a corporation. So How do you, like, what's the tension between engineering and design? What's the difference?

A Uh, it, it goes, goes both ways, Shane. You can have, um, I'll tell you what it is. The bread and butter companies have, have an awful relationship between the designers and the engineers, whereas the high flying, the, the exotics have a great relationship between the engineers and the designers. The reason being is the small, not the smaller companies, but the ones that Work well or, or, or look to being volume sellers. They've got to please everybody all the time, or that at least is their goal. Whereas the, the more limited in the, say, calling the exotic companies. Aren't, I mean, of course they want to sell everything they make, but they can afford to sell less, less in the end run. So the results that a, or a designer is basically the crazy guy in the organization. He's the one that comes up with these ideas that pretty much, you know, scare everybody, uh, at the beginning because they're five years out. From production and the designer gets paid the bucks to, to basically come up with these ideas that are innovative and engineers don't like, typically don't like to be pushed, uh, in this innovative direction because it puts, puts them at, uh, you know, they're not at ease with trying to have to figure out something very quickly that hasn't been done before. They, they would rather rely on past solutions and the current status quota to turn out work that they're guarantee…

AI assessment note: “engineers don't like, typically don't like to be pushed, uh, in this innovative direction”

Q You mentioned design language a few minutes ago. What does, what does that mean? What is the design language for those of us who are uninitiated?

A Um, well, design language is basically the brands, uh, Capitalize recognition factor. If a company is doing it right, a consumer should be able to look at the car and, and understand who makes that car, what brand of car that is. Um, that is done by creating a look, and that look is like a language. I guess you could say it's, uh, more than just a face. It's basically, um, Features on the car that are used as strong design points to, to brand that image. So if you look at certain companies, they'll have certain factors that may, you know, be it colors or shapes or font styles or whatever that will associate, uh, with or typify the company. Um, you know, you'll be able to identify the company right away without knowing that it's actually that company that, uh, Is, is being talked about. So when you speak about design language, um, what we tried to do is make a car look uniquely, uh, unique to that brand. In other words, the shape of the car, different types of, uh, elements on the car, such as the grill, uh, the front end grill, the lamps, the door handles, some of those things can, I wouldn't say commonize them because that can look cheap sometimes, but at the same time, if you can give a feel That is basically sort of what you would see in a family where you have a brother and a sister looking similar. They're not exactly the same, obviously, but they will have a look that res…

AI assessment note: “design language is basically the brands, uh, Capitalize recognition factor.”

Q One of the interesting stories I came across when I was doing research on you is you were in the top 10 in the world for motocross racing, and I think it was your dad who told you this is the last race for you when you were 22 or 23. What happened?

A Um, nothing much happened. That's probably the, the, um, the problem I had. Um, I was doing well. I mean, uh, it's all relative, I guess. Um, I'd done really well from when I'd started right off the bat. I'd, um, been pretty successful and, uh, came up through the ranks that you have to go through to get to that level, that professional level. I came through those pretty successfully and pretty quickly. Um, and so it, it, it wasn't a struggle, uh, on my side to, you know, to, to, to go through years of, um, of fighting and, you know, really trying hard to get to the top. It was, it felt almost pretty natural, and so I wasn't really, you know, super, uh, super, uh, crazy, super inspired or super happy to be at that level, uh, in the way that when you reach that level, it almost seemed like a natural thing for me to, uh, To arrive to. Um, the problem was, ah, and it wasn't a problem for me, it was, ah, when you're racing, it's just fun to do it, um, that I'd reached a level where I probably wasn't gonna go any higher Uh, I mean, being a professional is, is pretty high in anybody's book, but the problem was I wasn't up at the very, very top where I was on the podium every, every weekend or, uh, finishing up in the top three. I was basically your, your, your in the 10, uh, range of writing on that world-class level. So, uh, that could be seen as pretty, pretty good and, and a prett…

AI assessment note: “from my father's point of view, it wasn't ever going to make a huge difference”

Q It sounds like a pretty rational sort of approach to comments like that. Do you, do you remember how it made you feel at the time?

A Yeah. Yeah. Um, I, I wouldn't, I wouldn't say depression, but pretty low because I knew that if I got out, it was going to be a hundred percent out. Um, and that, that experience of racing where you're, you're traveling quite a bit and you're, you're, you're sort of getting exposed to a, an international outlook on life at a very young age, um, Um, that's wonderful. I mean, you learn so much just by being around people who, who have so many different experiences in life, and, and, and basically you're doing something that you love to do, and you're getting, you know, even paid to do it, and, and there's a lot of, um, exposure at that level, so it's, it's a rewarding thing to do when you're, when you're young, and it does keep you toeing the line, I guess you could say, in terms of, uh, health and, uh, and, and a mental health. Approach to life, a mental outlook. Um, you're always, you know, pushing yourself to the limit, or what you think is your own limit, but then you have to, you know, make sure that that, that, that level you're pushing to, or that limit is, is not just average. Nobody cares in racing about who's average. It's always about who's, who's the winner, and so it does train you, I guess, for the rest of your life in a pretty awesome way of Of not being satisfied ever with, with anything unless you're at the very top or putting out your absolute best performance. …

AI assessment note: “I wouldn't say depression, but pretty low because I knew that if I got out”

Q the drag on a car and just getting rid of those would automatically increase fuel efficiency. So I can see that sort of changing If that's true in the future with autonomous cars, um, but what are the things that we can do today or that are being worked on behind the scenes that we don't see to make cars more efficient before we get to that sort of place?

A Yeah. Um, obviously if we're looking at today's cars and we're looking at fuel propelled cars, then we're looking at aerodynamic efficiency, but the trend now I think is, is we're almost Uh, being, not being forced, but the, the general view now is that we have to start looking more at ways of not using the world's resources. So, so not looking at fossil fuels, and, and that brings into, uh, play the whole, uh, game about electrical, uh, propelled cars, if you want to call it that way. And, and what that means is that we're, we're not so much now in need of aerodynamic, uh, AIDS or aerodynamic shapes that will allow us or, or allow us to save fuel in terms of efficiency. So saving fuel is, is basically based on, um, improving the aerodynamics of a car, as well as handling, obviously, but we are limited to, uh, speeds on most roads where the aerodynamics don't play a huge, uh, part of, of the efficiency. So obviously the faster you go, the more dynamic the car, the less fuel it uses, but Um, I, uh, like I said, we, we, we can't really go that fast these days. So as soon as we move into the world of, uh, electrical cars or electric cars, we start looking at ways that the electrical side can improve the efficiency of a car. So what that does, it means, um, uh, we can go with a lot smaller, uh, areas needed to be used for the The motors, basically. You can either use in-wheel motor…

AI assessment note: “You can either use in-wheel motors for the electrics, or you can use a, uh”

Q of like what makes airplanes the, the safest is like, there's been innovation in airplanes, but they sort of look the same as the sixties and they're heavily regulated. They're slow to change. And that's part of what's made it safe. And so when we're talking about more innovative approaches, is, is it a tension between that safety and, um, inventing something new or how do you think about that?

A Yeah. I mean, the, the, the thing that increases safety, um, the way, the way they do it in aviation at least is they do, they use something called redundancy, which means if something fails, they'll have a backup system and, and the, the chance of something failing is, um, Is, is, you know, at a very high, um, level of improbability. Um, so they use redundancy. Basically, if something fails, that shouldn't fail to have a back, backup system for it. Um, but I think the innovation side of aviation hasn't been reached yet, because we're still using, um, ideas of aerodynamics that are pretty much I'd say outdated still, and, and, um, not, I mean, we're using lift, wings for lift. We're using, um, you know, propulsion methods that are still antiquated, or not, not antiquated, but just haven't really pushed, pushed forward very much. The most innovation comes obviously from, from the military, uh, from military aviation, where planes are basically designed to be, uh, or, or these military, Aircraft are designed to be unstable so they can maneuver much more quickly. Um, but there are, there are innovations to be found in, in, in, in nature, in birds to, to, to make planes look completely different and much more efficient than what we have today. Um, I wouldn't call planes today boring, but, um, they're basically, I would say, you know, you have most often in the commercial world, a t…

AI assessment note: “I think the innovation side of aviation hasn't been reached yet”

Q What drives that emotional attachment? Like how is that between sort of engineering, design, marketing? Like how do those interplay together?

A Well, it's, it's, I mean, design is all about emotion. So what you're, you're counting on is that the design will be a main factor, one of the main factors to buying that product. So You know, if you're in the market for a, a budget car or everyday car, you're, you're, you're, uh, so many cars cover that well enough today that design tends to be the deciding factor when it comes to making that decision of what car I want. You know, what does the brand represent and what does the car look like? I'm going to be riding, driving this thing and my neighbors will be seeing me in it and they'll judge me, you know, my tastes on, on this. So design is, is a very, very important factor when it does come to To designing the, to, to selling the product. So companies are starting now, I think, to put a huge value on basically the design of the, um, of the vehicle. So, um, yeah, so.

AI assessment note: “design is all about emotion. So what you're, you're counting on is that the design”

Q What do organizations do to like remove curiosity from not only designers, but from everybody, but your experience as a designer, what do they, what do they do that gets in the way of that curiosity?

A Um, they pretty much, um, put locks in your way, I guess, as a designer, to, to being curious. They, like I said, they tried to make sure that what you're doing is, is playing it safe. Um, the problem with playing it safe, again, is you're being, you know, you could risk being stagnant, you could risk, um, you know, going backwards even. Um, They don't encourage it enough. It, it basically, it plays on the fact that if you, if you're not curious, you're basically stifling the The all important innovation factor. I'd say that you, that, that all companies would need, or at least a part of the company needs to, to be thinking about innovation. So, um.

AI assessment note: “they tried to make sure that what you're doing is, is playing it safe.”

Q So how did you get from quitting motocross professionally anyway to design school?

A Um, yeah, that's kind of interesting because they seem like two completely different things in life. I mean, one you have to be pretty bulky, and the other one you have to have pretty lith fingers, I would imagine, you know. And, um, no, I, I'd always been very physically active since I was a Since I can remember, I was a very active, physically active young kid, and, uh, and also very competitive, uh, from very early age on. I, I just loved being competitive. Um, but I also had this, um, this artistic wiring in me, which I, I, I was never really able to, to, to understand, but it was just everything for me was, from the very beginning, I would see everything from an artistic point of view, um, As well as obviously a technical point of view, because my parents were very, uh, different. My father being, um, basically a northerner, uh, he was very, uh, I don't know, very, very analytical and very technical about everything, and everything had to be, you know, sort of measured. Uh, you'd have to be able to put a number to it, and that included everything about, you know, being precise about absolutely everything and very detail-oriented. Whereas my mother was very much on the other side of the spectrum, where she was all about The artistic value of things and being very, ah, creative and, and, and, you know, that, that went from everything from the art to music to culture and ever…

AI assessment note: “I also had this, um, this artistic wiring in me”

Q And a woman's body. Can you, can you talk to me about that?

A Yeah. I mean, the thing with I, what I find, uh, really interesting about design is, um, and like I said, there's a bit of a science to design. Um, when you design for something that's appealing, uh, emotionally appealing, you have to, I mean, most designers don't just pull, pull something out of thin air. They have to get their inspiration from some source or some, some, some original thing that, that, um, That they, that they feel, you know, they like or feel connected to. I've always been, uh, very interested in, in the art of making something beautiful, and whether it be architecture, whether it be furniture or anything like that, there's, you know, beautiful in, in, uh, in the right way is enduring. It doesn't, doesn't ever go out of fashion. Um, but when I design, pretty much everything I've ever designed has a connection, uh, personal connection to nature. For me. Um, one of my favorite subjects always has been biology and, uh, and nature, and I've always tried to find my inspiration through nature, pretty much. Um, it is a science. We call it biomimicry, and it's pretty much the science of, of, uh, looking for, uh, solutions in, in, in the way that nature has already figured it out for us. Um, so when I, when I design, my inspiration doesn't come from, let's say, things that are, um, Transient or, or in one year and out the next. It's basically looking for the solutions…

AI assessment note: “pretty much everything I've ever designed has a connection, uh, personal connection to nature.”

Q are the things that People who design cars wish that consumers knew about the cars. And, and you can, you can talk us through the gamut. I mean, you've done sort of like, um, all ranges of cars in terms of price, all the way up to like the P one versus the Fiat 500. Um, and, and so are they the same things? Are they different? Like, can you.

A From a designer's point of view, it's kind of like, you know, you often get asked what's your favorite Design that you've ever done, or I get asked that a lot. And, and again, you know, you want to, you want to answer the question, but I find it extremely hard to answer that question because you put as much blood and guts and, and sweat into designing the small details and the small cars and the, the lesser expensive ones as you do in the, in the bigger ones. It's much like, you know, I would, I would compare it to being asked, which is your favorite child? Unless you got a real black sheep in the family, you're probably gonna end up saying that all of them are your favorites, just, they're all different. So, um, I, I can't say that, you know, designing one car is, is funner than designing another car. They're all important, but, um, in one respect, I, I think that designing, uh, between that whole range of, of cars from a, your basic, uh, get me from here to there kind of car to the one where you just stare at it in the garage and, And have a glass of wine while you're looking at it. Um, the thing is, design, basically it's, it's, it's more expensive to design a bad car, a car that's not successful than it is to design a, a very expensive, a, a well-designed car. It costs more to make a mistake than it does to not make a mistake, if you, if you get what I mean, what I mean the…

AI assessment note: “you often get asked what's your favorite Design that you've ever done”

Q mentioned in the past when you're drawing a car, there's two of you sort of like the person drawing the car and then the person critiquing it. And I think that's something we, we all resonate with because when we're doing something, we're also, we're not only doing it, maybe not in the present moment, but we're also critiquing ourselves. And how do you balance the tension between those two?

A Uh, yeah, it's, it's a good, that's a, I, I don't know. It's sort of, um, a way that comes out of your own self. You, you, I mean, all designers are extremely self-critical, I'd say, you know, uh, a lot of them, a lot of us maybe aren't sure of what we're doing sometimes, and you look for justification or approval from the other people, and obviously if you, Do something great, and everybody loves it, then you've done a great job, but it's really a, uh, a real deep cut to the, uh, to, to, to, to the designer when somebody criticizes design. Um, but when you're actually designing, like, like you mentioned, for me, it's not so much about thinking while I'm designing. I, I pretty much think about I mean, the other thing is you have to be, uh, aware that when you design, there's a lot of research that has to be done before you start designing. I think a lot of designers might fall into that trap of where they just start designing a new product immediately when they get a brief to, or a project to do. Um, for me, it's all about starting with the vision, starting with trying to envision the outcome. It's a process pretty much. You can't, I mean, you can obviously start, but it's just basically putting lines on paper that really don't have any End result. You, you have to start, I think, with researching your design goal first, and you have to imagine it before you actually carry it o…

AI assessment note: “for me, it's not so much about thinking while I'm designing.”