The Exchanges

Q Do you think about going back and editing and revising it, or do you continually think about moving on to the next project? I guess books are harder to go back.

A Yeah, I think, I think with this one, uh, I might have reached the end of the road because I've spent three years on it. I was a bit pigheaded to begin with. I, I tried something that didn't work. I tried something else. I think I spent like 15,000 dollars on it. Didn't quite work. I tried something else. So I think I've, I've spent, you know, about three years, or I had spent about three years on this project, and, and I feel there's, you know, there is a point where you get diminishing returns, and I think that's kind of the point that I'm at right now. So I, I am looking, I'm kind of currently working on, um, another project, uh, that I'm hoping to, uh, spend about six months on, and then maybe have it in draft form by the end of the year.

AI assessment note: “I might have reached the end of the road because I've spent three years on it.”

Q of what What the algorithm, I guess, uh, thinks that we want. And in that, I mean, we lose some sort of serendipity and we lose, uh, there's costs, I guess, to that sort of approach. Do you worry about how much data we're leaving online and, uh, what that says about us or what companies will think that it says about us and how that will change the future?

A I mean, absolutely. I mean, that's, that's the problem. Um, I remember I used to work for a company where, uh, where there, um, Their, their kind of, their slogan was that we care about the user's privacy. And that's, and they, they valued privacy over everything else, including, you know, features and, uh, the ability to acquire data and so on. And then they discovered after, uh, you know, many, many years that the user, the user doesn't care a lot about privacy. You know, we live in a, in a time where We post stuff on Instagram. We post stuff on Facebook. A lot of it is personal stuff and photos. And so there, there's been a shift in how we, we, we view, um, uh, things that were in the past super private, right? You'd never share a picture of your, say of yourself with, with, with friends maybe, or with family members, or, or maybe there was some other stuff that you would never put online, but now it's, it's all fair game. I mean, you're, you're putting it out there on your LinkedIn profile, on Facebook, on, on Twitter, on Instagram, and Twitter is the worst because you have this constant stream of updates. That, uh, people are sharing, and sometimes you don't recognize how much you're revealing, uh, in those places. But at the same time, you are benefiting from those, uh, from sharing those, and that's why people do them, right? You get likes, and that makes you feel good, …

AI assessment note: “I mean, absolutely. I mean, that's, that's the problem.”

Q And do you review the notebook or do you just write your thoughts and then kind of go back to it if you're triggered or like, how does that process work? How does it get from your, your brain to your notebook into, uh, your writing or your thinking or updating your algorithms?

A Um, Yeah, I do. I go through my notebook all the time, and it's, it's always nice going through older notes, because often you find that you wrote down a lot, a lot of things that didn't make sense at the time, but now, you know, because of a change in context or different circumstances, all of a sudden, that idea that you had three years ago, you know, takes on a different form. So I do go through my notes, uh, uh, I don't know, I mean, regularly, but I don't know how frequently, but there is this constant going back and seeing what What I wrote before, how applicable it is to, uh, to what I'm doing right now.

AI assessment note: “Yeah, I do. I go through my notebook all the time”

Q I'm super curious. Can you expand on some of the things that changes maybe with the expectation or with the audience? How did the audience change?

A Yeah. So with the website, I mean, especially if you're coming from say an open source background with a website, you put something out there and it's more often than not free. Uh, and then, uh, someone comes across it and if they like it, they like it, they might share it. And if they don't like it, Uh, you know, one of two things can happen. Either they don't do anything, or they might submit, uh, you know, a contribution to you. They'll say, I came across this particular thing that, uh, that is not quite working, or is not accurate, and, uh, you should fix it. Or better yet, here is the fix. So there is that kind of dynamic between the creator and, uh, and the audience. Uh, whereas with, so, and, and crucially, there is, uh, it's, the, the, the, the artifact is always a work in progress. Whereas I came to learn that with a book, Uh, there is this, uh, perception that a book is the culmination of, uh, you know, of an effort, and maybe rightfully so for historical reasons. That's, that's how it's always been. But, um, but, uh, with, uh, with Bad Arguments, for instance, I, I tried to break that model a bit, uh, by, uh, maintaining the open source, uh, project. So there's the, the book in print, and then there's the book online. And it was interesting to see kind of how, uh, you know, how that dynamic shifted and changed Um, even the publisher who picked up the book in the begi…

AI assessment note: “with a book, Uh, there is this, uh, perception that a book is the culmination”

Q Can we geek out on that for a second? Like, how does that manifest itself in how you live your life?

A So for me, for instance, um, you know, again, I get up in the morning, um, uh, I get on the train, it's about an hour to, uh, to the office, and You know, what do you do in that hour? Uh, you could just watch YouTube videos. Uh, you could do nothing. Um, you could listen to an audio book. These are all decisions that you have to, uh, you have to make, and it could be the case that sometimes the audio book is the most, uh, effective thing for that day, or it could be the case that just looking out the window is the most effective thing, and that's been the case for me sometimes. Or maybe just, uh, you know, just, uh, uh, listening to what everybody else is talking about in the, uh, uh, in the cabin. Um, so I think Yeah, so, so you have that one hour, then you have, you make a decision about what you do in that one hour, and, and how is it affecting everything else that might come in that day. So for me, for instance, I have this, uh, this side project about empathy, uh, that's top of mind. And so when I'm sitting on the train, that's, that's the only thing that I'm thinking about. Um, I'm thinking about what can I do right now that will bring me closer to, um, that draft that I would like to have ready in six months time. And, um, And again, it could be something obvious, like sketching a scene on a piece of paper or the back of a, you know, my notebook or something, or it could…

AI assessment note: “So for me, for instance, um, you know, again, I get up in the morning”

Q How would you define empathy as a, as a broad category?

A I think I would say, again, it's, um, it all depends on your vantage and your circumstances and where you're coming from, but I think one way is to, um, uh, is to, is to recognize people. I think, um, uh, so, so one idea I had for this project that I don't think is going to work, but it's something I had early on was to have a book where, uh, the character of interest is not the protagonist, but it's somebody else in the background. So you, you follow the story to the very end, and then you, And then you find out at the end that this, that the story is actually about the secondary character that you can only barely see in the background. So I think that's part of empathy is kind of recognizing, uh, people and things that are not always, uh, easily recognizable or, or seen or acknowledged. Um, but, uh, yeah, doing that and also, um, not being too focused on, on the obvious, um, Kind of having more heart when looking at the world. And, uh, yeah, those are all factors that I think play, play into it.

AI assessment note: “part of empathy is kind of recognizing, uh, people and things that are not always”

Q I wish you well with that mission. How would you kind of go about teaching empathy to people?

A I like this category of books where it looks like it's for a, you know, it looks like the book is for a child, but actually it's for an adult. So that's kind of the approach that I've taken with the previous two or three projects. And I think I would like to, uh, kind of stay in that category and see if we can do something within the same framework with, with this, uh, with this new idea. Um, and I think it's, it's very effective when you combine illustrations and, and prose and, uh, kind of the, the physical packaging of the product. Um, it's, it's, it's not only been enjoyable for me to kind of work with, with those various components, but I think they also, they also are very effective. It's, it's a good way to reach various people. Um, And people still go to bookshops, so that's, that's good.

AI assessment note: “I like this category of books where it looks like it's for a child”